Five Seven

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Seattleimport

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What's the word on the Five Seven? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_Five-seven

I was at the range with my girlfriend, introducing her to my new Beretta Laramie. She found it *way* too heavy, so we headed to the retail section and asked the guy for recommendation for a home defense gun suitable for a woman's small hands and lighter recoil tolerance. He pulled out two guns: the Glock 19 and the Five Seven.

Glock 19 for ease of use & maintenance, Five Seven for ultimate in low recoil while also being a killer round. He described it as a pistol that shoots rifle bullets.

So what's the word on this gun? It's the first I've heard of it.
 
I had one for a short time before a friend of mine helped convince me that it would be better in his collection so I sold it to him. The gun is extremely accurate, ergonomic, ultra light (even fully loaded) and shoots a rifle cartridge.

The recoil of the Five-Seven is pretty tame but comparable to a full size .40 handgun, it's far from being a .22 and a bit more than a 9mm. It makes a great carry gun, since it's so light you hardly feel it on your side. The main compliant about the 5.7x28 as a defensive round surrounds it's stopping power potential, many detractors don't believe the round stacks up to heavier, slower pistol rounds like the .45 or even 9mm.

The main complaint you hear about is regards to the cost of the ammo. There is no cheap 5.7x28 plinking ammo available so you end up shooting only the high end stuff whenever you take it out to the range. So be prepared to spend around $20 or more for a box of 50.

Although I dodn't put a lot of rounds through my Five-Seven before I sold it I did enjoy shooting it and was impressed with it's accuracy and feel. All the same it was just not what I really wanted and I'm much happier with the MSAR stg.556 that I bought as it's replacement. My friend however absolutely loves the Five-Seven and thanks me all the time for selling it to him, the price of ammo doesn't bother him and I still can shoot it now and then if he lets me.
 
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The pistol has several attributes that make it a very good choice for people unable, as in arthritic, or unwilling , as in "not gun people" to use instead of larger caliber pistols.

The recoil is very mild
The slide is very easy to operate
The magazine loads very easily.
The trigger is long and heavy enough, but not too.
Very light weight even when fully loaded.
Stays very clean, easy to maintain.

The only downfalls are;
It's a loud report.
Ammo may not be found in all stores.
It's an expensive gun, no way around it.
 
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It really does look like a great gun for my situation. Thing is, it--and its ammo--also look to be out of stock.

On the cost of the ammunition: how does it stack up against the 9mm? I'll likely only put 50 bullets a month through the gun. Given that volume, is the difference that significant?
 
I don't know about the five seven being for woman hands... My hand didn't wrap around that gun that well... felt like it had a lot of depth to it.. probably b/c the bullet it shoots is longer than typical pistol bullets?
 
I have to admit, I just don't like the FiveseveN. I've only shot one once. It wasn't the weapon I didn't like. It was accurate, and reasonably well built.

My issue was two-fold.

First of all, it's main raison d'etre is to serve as a military pistol for penetrating bulletproof armor as used by 1st and 2nd World Armed Forces. But, American civilians haven't got access to the special ammo which allows that, and even if we did, I can't see how many people would be in a situation where they would need to penetrate Class III and above vests and a rifle wouldn't do the job better.

Secondly, this pistol might cost $150 to produce (minus whatever government tax related costs exist on it), yet it costs in the 1k range. This is insane. There is no reason for that. It should cost $500 max, and that's a stetch.

Those two things together.... get a Glock and be happy.
 
I think it's fairly useless to judge a gun based on its price. If you can afford the gun the price is irrelevant leaving the merits of the gun and the round. If you can't afford the gun that still leaves the merits of the gun and the round to be the issue. As to whether the gun is a good value, that is an entirely different matter.

For opinions on the gun the aforementioned FN forum will help as well as a search here. The problem is that so many opinions on the gun are clouded by the cost of the gun which is something that anyone knows going into it.

Oh, and someone will also come along and claim that the 5.7 round is nothing more than a .22 magnum, which is pure horse hockey.
 
No one even mentioned

What a 'neat' looking little round it is! Seriously considered getting one, a lot of people fear it because it is known as a 'cop killer', but I recall seeing it as an issue pistol in EU.
 
I more or less stated this when I was thinking about getting a Five-seveN in another thread:

I wouldn't worry about man-stopping performance... I mean honestly, how many of us live in cities and routinely are faced with situation so bad we need to be concerned about whether or not we're packing a firearm 24/7 that can stop a drug-binging psychopath in one shot?

Most of us will use it to train shooting technique, keep in our home in case our "zombie fantasies" come true, and most of all, have fun with it. I say get a handgun you like, that you will be familiar with, and enjoy shooting often. If by some really bad stroke of luck you have to use it to defend yourself one day, you'd be better off with a pistol you know inside and out. Besides, a self-defense gun confrontation rarely ends with someone being shot. The perp is usually scared off by the sight of a weapon, or just the sound of a shot.

"One shot stop" isn't a good theory to go by anyway. In a self-defense situation, if someone has made you draw your gun, you don't give em "just one", you pull the trigger until you hear the slide rack back. If they're still twitching put in your spare. I could pack a .45 but if I ever had to draw it my nerves would be so shaky I don't know if I could get a hit in my first few shots, much less a "stopping" center-mass shot. The recoil makes follow ups harder, and with large bullets, especially carry weapons, there aren't many in the magazine... you don't get too many tries.

The way I see it the Five-seveN, while pricey, has a definite cool factor. It has a 20-round magazine...find another handgun with a capacity even close to that which you can carry comfortably! And is has very mild recoil. 20 shots you can keep on target is better than 8 shots jumping all over, no matter how big the bullet is.

And while reloading the 5.7x28mm isn't easy at this point, you should be able to take the fired brass, pop out the primer, seat a new one, and jut use thumb pressure to put a .22 cal pellet in the neck. That makes for some fun, cheap practicing and plinking.
 
and shoots a rifle cartridge.
It has about the energy of the .22 magnum.

Published reports indicate that as factory loaded the 5.7x28mm drives a 32 grain bullet, load #SS190-AP (armor piercing), at a muzzle velocity (MV) of 2350 fps with 390 ft. lbs. of muzzle energy (ME). The 28 grain spitzer bullet, load #SS195LF-JHP, has a muzzle velocity of 2350 fps and muzzle energy of 290 ft. lbs. The 40 grain Hornady V-Max bullet, load #SS197SR, claims a muzzle velocity of 1950 fps with 340 ft. lbs. of muzzle energy. Readers old enough to remember the obsolete .22 Remington Jet small game and varmint cartridge of 1960--40 grain bullet at about 2000 fps from a S&W Model 53 revolver--will be startled to hear that the slightly less powerful 5.7x28mm is a "cop-killer" round.
These might have been tested out of a submachine gun, if so, it will have even less energy from the Five-seveN

A comparison of the performance of the .22 Winchester Magnum Rimfire (WMR), introduced in 1959, and the 5.7x28mm is interesting. The .22 WMR shares the same bullet diameter (.224") as the 5.7x28mm cartridge and their muzzle and energy figures are actually rather similar.

Winchester's Supreme .22 WMR loaded with a 34 grain jacketed hollow point bullet has a muzzle velocity of 2120 fps and muzzle energy of 339 ft. lbs. from a (presumably 24") rifle barrel and a muzzle velocity of 1690 fps with 216 ft. lbs. of muzzle energy
This isn't even from a rfile.

Winchester's Super-X .22 WMR 40 grain jacketed hollow point (JHP) and full metal jacket (FMJ) bullets--Winchester offers both--have a MV of 1910 fps with ME of 324 ft. lbs. from a rifle barre

I'd think a 9mm would be better for self defense.
The U.S. military load for the 9x19mm drives a 124 grain bullet at a MV of 1299 fps and ME of 465 ft. lbs. from the Beretta M9 service pistol
.
 
If by some really bad stroke of luck you have to use it to defend yourself one day, you'd be better off with a pistol you know
I have to agree with this.

I wouldn't worry about stopping performance... I mean honestly, how many of us live in cities and routinely are faced with situation so bad we need to be concerned about whether or not we're packing a firearm 24/7 that can stop a drug-binging psychopath in one shot?
I'd think that in your home stopping power would be even more important, because due to the distances it could quickly become a struggle over the gun.

One shot stop" isn't a good theory to go by anyway.
I agree. But you should still get the gun with the best round you can shoot controllably. The police generally use 9mm and up, and I figure they would be among the best sources on this subject.

In a self-defense situation, if someone has made you draw your gun, you don't give em "just one", you pull the trigger until you hear the slide rack back
.
Shoot until they no longer pose any threat. (If they are armed, that means until they can't pull their gun's trigger. This might also apply if you can't see their hands) If you shoot them when they very clearly pose no threat (not they might not still be able to kill you, but rather when it's very clear they pose no threat) that could be murder.

Besides, how many shots can you shoot in the time it takes someone to get across the living room in your house? Can you really shoot the full 20 rounds, acccurately.
 
Oh, and someone will also come along and claim that the 5.7 round is nothing more than a .22 magnum, which is pure horse hockey.

No its not, with the 5.7 pistol you get .22Magnum rifle ballistics out of a pistol, look it up. With the 5.7 in a rifle it does a little better.

Without the special bullets I have no use for it, Maybe someday when I've extra money to burn I'll add one to the collection, but I don't see any real virtues to make me really want one. The 5.7 rifles and their 50 round magazines are more interesting except for the cost of the ammo. I've heard the sales of 50 round mags to civilians is being halted, 30 round only now.

--wally.
 
Flat shooting and controllable+ a plus

Prohibitively ( for me at least !) expensive and the ammo is often hard to come by+minus
Best ammo=the vest punching stuff that is unavailable to us mere mortals/tax slaves.
Methinks that the 7.62x25 in existing ( or new designs-hi cap anyone?) gives a lot of bang for the buck -if a rimless bottleneck caliber is crying out for you to give it a good home
 
7.62x25 rocks, at least until the cheap corrosive surplus ammo runs out. Don't hold your breath for new designs in 7.62x25 as the OAL is too long to fit the magwell of any currently in production firearm.

--wally.
 
No its not, with the 5.7 pistol you get .22Magnum rifle ballistics out of a pistol, look it up. With the 5.7 in a rifle it does a little better.

That's if you only consider the numbers. I know the numbers.

As to expensive ammo, I've heard this before also, and again....horse hockey.

As to the thirty round PS90 mags, if they are anything like the current ones they can be converted to 50 round mags in about five minutes time with a minimum of effort.
 
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First of all, it's main raison d'etre is to serve as a military pistol for penetrating bulletproof armor as used by 1st and 2nd World Armed Forces. But, American civilians haven't got access to the special ammo which allows that

The Penetrator rounds from eliteammunition.com display impressive vest-penetrating potential.
 
Most of us will use it to train shooting technique, keep in our home in case our "zombie fantasies" come true, and most of all, have fun with it. I say get a handgun you like, that you will be familiar with, and enjoy shooting often.

This. I was at the range the other day with my GSG-5 (.22 cal). With no perceptible recoil, it can put twenty bullets into the head of a silhouette target just as fast as you can pull the trigger. And it's cheap and a LOT of fun. :)

I'm not concerned with armor piercing ability--this issue just won't come up, for me, and if it does then I'm screwed anyway. :)

So maybe the solution (a girl-friendly gun suitable for home defense) is this .22 Magnum others have talking about. If it's truly as good as a 5.7, then maybe I should just get a semi-auto pistol in .22 Magnum. I hear the Stingers are plenty deadly / good enough for home defense.
 
I'm not concerned with armor piercing ability--this issue just won't come up, for me, and if it does then I'm screwed anyway.

Yeah. If that's the scenario you're on the wrong end of a SWAT raid. A .22 WMR is a rimfire case. You can't reload it, and as far as I know, I've only seen it in mini-revolvers.

Normal .22lr is availabe in revolvers, target pistols, and fun semi-autos like the Sig Mosquito and Walther P22. The guns are much cheaper to buy, but the thing that would keep me from it, besides hit-or-miss quality, is that even rimfire ammo isn't that cheap these days. As fun as .22lr can be, I don't really shoot mine because the price savings isn't worth it in larger volumes. Over the long run, reloading for a centerfire pistol may be just as cost effective.
 
5.7 out of a pistol is comparable to a .22 magnum out of a rifle. Which is to say it's a little weaker than a 9mm.
.22 magnum out of a shorter pistol barrel will be going considerable slower and have a lot less energy.

Personally, the 5.7 is a pretty untested round, with energy and penetration (in ballistics gelatin) that aren't too impressive. I think it has a lot of potential, but I would rather trust a more well established caliber. The best choice if you're looking for a defensive pistol would be a heavier steel frame pistol in 9mm, or a heavier full sized revolver in .38 special. If it's just for home defense a carbine would also be an excellent choice. The longer barrel will give you some extra velocity and power over a pistol in the same caliber, and it's easier to hit what you're aiming at.
 
I think it has a lot of potential, but I would rather trust a more well established caliber.

That to me a is a very fair statement. I think the jury is still out on the 5.7, especially with the developments from firms like Elite Ammunition (whose rounds haven't been used in the gellatin tests that are often cited, that I know of) so for now I would rely on "full" caliber rounds like 9mm, .40, and .45for self-defense.
 
FN has supposedly give the green light for other ammo makers to load ammo for the 5.7, so it appears that its no longer a propriatary cartridge. ammo prices should drop soon.
 
So maybe the solution (a girl-friendly gun suitable for home defense) is this .22 Magnum others have talking about. If it's truly as good as a 5.7, then maybe I should just get a semi-auto pistol in .22 Magnum. I hear the Stingers are plenty deadly / good enough for home defense.
.22 magnum pistols are rare, and they have a reputation for not being too reliable. The Five-seveN would be more reliable, plus it not being a rimfire adds to that. It will also have higher capacity.
 
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