Socom M1A?

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Others with far far more knowledge about both platforms can give better input. But for what it's worth, I would go with the AK. Having said that, I am not (myself) going for an AK (at this time) simply because I reckon the .308 is more prevalent, being a hunting round, and I probably will get a bolt action .308 later so I just want to get one 30 caliber. For less power/range, I am going with the .223. For up close and personal and backup, either the 9mm or the .45 ACP. Again, all ammo choices made based on ease of acquisition and compatibility. I know the 7.62x39 is not exactly exotic, but I just figured I'd go 7.62 NATO if I was getting that size caliber. I could still end up getting an AK sooner or later (maybe AFTER getting a 12-gauge).

So you can actually see I am acquiring my firearms somewhat in a priority list, based generally around some of the "scenarios" you are also envisioning (maybe we differ a bit, as I am mostly looking at widespread unrest and desperation due to global financial collapse, but I think we both agree on the widespread unrest aspect).
 
I have the scout model M1a that I am very happy with. Socoms are nice, but it seem the extra 2 inches can make a big difference. 300 yards with open sights are no problem. Mine has been perfectly reliable and more accurate than any 7.62 Ak variant that I have ever owned. Aks are common at the range. You get a lot of smiles and admirers when the M1a comes out. Especially a Scout in walnut.
 
Oh, I guess I unwittingly omitted a key point, which probably is a question you should have asked, and didn't, and an answer which I should have written, but didn't. :)

I am looking at the HK91 (or PTR91) for my no-maintenance-available hard-core roughing-it-out .308

Only looking right now; not fully on board yet. The M1A Scout (and a quality bolt action) are on the list of possible alternatives.
 
Here's my take on it...

If you're going to need a .308 to "defend yourself" then it will be from a longer range to justify it. Unless you plan on shooting through vehicles and engine blocks, a carbine length AR will be your ticket.

If you still want a .308, invest in a good boltgun, they are extremely reliable, accurate, and will reach out and hit your target..

If you can only get ONE rifle, can an AR-10 platform rifle.

The AR platform will be more accurate than the M1A or AK47 platforms, optics will be easier to mount and it's easy to keep them running.
 
This has been entertaining, there are two completely different conversations going on in this thread. Love my LAR-8 by the way.
 
Not that I'm talking about that "other" topic..... but I did buy a SOCOM .458 upper that mounts on any AR lower, just so I could have a really big punch if I ever needed one. You know, like that extra thick target paper at the range.
 
My semi auto rifle choice is m1a. Partly because I live in California and can use my legally owned 20 rounders. Cant do that with an AR in cali (easily). Partly because I've sold my soul to the 308 devil and that's my hunting rifle caliber precision rifle and other plinking bolt gun fr8. I have 2 bush rifles a socom and a full size standard m1a. If you change the suppressor you can get the 18 inch scout/bush about as short as a Socom and benefit from 2 more inches. 18 Inches is plenty for 308. The g3 is 17.9 and the Germans don't complain. I suggest you research a scout or bush rifle and be happy. That's what I did and I'm good to go if and when the ( insert your chosen form of apocalypse here ) happens. In the meantime it's a lot of fun to blast at the range and out in the public land shooting areas.
 
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The L.A. riots weren't that long ago. LEO and firefighters pulled out of areas,
because they were targets, easily hit, and were taking fire. A perimeter was established. Pretty much they let things go, since they couldn't control it.

My friends in the Pacific Palisades setup road blocks, armed citizens with a variety of rifles, and handguns. LEO presence in P.P. is pretty much on a
'we might get someone out today' basis. P.P. has no city police, and is a long way from central L.A., where the LEO come from. They had to be prepared for a possible invasion/firefight. Bad guys have cars, and, they would try and get into the rich hunting grounds of P.P.

Due to the considerable coordination of violence BEFORE the O.J. verdict, it has been speculated that the gangs of L.A. decided this was an excellent chance for a bit of wealth redistribution, and coordinated their violence to create a free crime zone. They succeeded.

Katrina comes to mind as well.

What gun would you have in such situations?
First off, the AK 47's are now the new FN FAL's, price wise. It's STILL
a junk action, designed to be stamped out of cheap metal, and work.
It does that. The guns do NOT justify their price, at least in my opinion.

I'm not sold on the AR platform for .308. But, if it works for you, go for it.

I would like someday to have a M1A. I don't really see the 16" barrel as a plus. I did some great shooting with a 20-22" M1A setups, and would probably go with the standard length.

So, while I don't see a Fan scenario against the government, we have had a couple disasters that clearly fit into a situation where a firearm such as you are considering would have been prudent.

As for accuracy: M1A's are incredibly accurate, more so then MOST bolt guns, provided you get a match grade barrel, and the other goodies that help.

In the L.A. riots stopping cars would have been a priority. With the news helicopters hanging like vultures, shooting a person to stop them would get you accused of murder. The Korean store owner who did that shooting from his rooftop learned the hard way.

Shooting from cover or concealment, tires and cars parts would have been the targets of choice at the barricades, to get the gang guys to abandon their attempts to enter and rob, steal, kill, or rape. .308 would be a decent choice for that.

In such situations being able to share ammunition is a consideration as well.
 
If you like the reliability of a Kalashnikov but want the harder hitting 308 round you may want to consider something like the SAIGA 308.

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct1187.aspx

The highest quality Kalashnikov rifles on the market are probably the Vepr.
Here is one in the very stout 7.62x54 caliber.
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct1221.aspx


Magazines for either rifle are, for me, pretty spendy. You did say you're well heeled, so I figured I'd throw these two rifles out there as an option.
 
The Government is going to be on our side if things ever get rough, it's not like one day there's going to be some Nazi / Communist / Anti-Democratic Government.
Click to expand...

I wonder if that what the Russians were saying in 1917, and Germans in 1934.
 
Yeah, I think we all know that if there is another LA riot situation we had best link up with our neighbors and keep the riot sort of trouble from coming into our neighborhoods.
This my "You are not coming any further down this road" rifle.

230.jpg
 
The scary part of Katrina was the door to door home invasions by the government to take firearms out of the hands of legal owners.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4

"New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, Police Superintendent P. Eddie Compass unleashed a wave of confiscations with these chilling words:
"No one will be able to be armed. We will take all weapons. Only law enforcement will be allowed to have guns.""

http://bobmccarty.com/2008/07/13/nra-the-untold-story-of-gun-grab-after-katrina/

Pretty much your choices in such situations aren't going to be solved with firearms.

The solution might be to leave everything, grab your stuff and get out before such government folks can get their squads in place to steal your guns.

I do wonder what would have happened if such a group of LEO had tried that during the L.A. riots in P.Palisades, or, if they in fact did.

We had a similar situation occur in Santa Cruz, in 1982? Massive rain storm cut power to the area for three days. We got all our guns, friends, dogs, and held up at a restaurant to protect it, and the money and valuables.

We had one confrontation/discussion with the police. Officer was investigating a few gunshots from across the creek. He said he was checking on us. His attitude was adjusted rather quickly by looking down and seeing an attack trained rottweiler, with no leash, and all you could see in the dark were the 4 canine teeth, and the size of the dogs head.

He was very respectful after that, mentioning that we looked like we had things in hand, and he departed. Our city did not have a mayor or police chief that presumed to trample on the right to bear arms.

Things might have been different if the storm lasted longer.

I brought that up because when all laws are out the window, sometimes fire power of different kinds might deter illegal actions by thug LEO's.

I wonder if in Katrina a few folks didn't hold up in mansions, well armed, and stay in their homes, and refuse entry to such gangs of LEO's. Seems like most of the filming is of people in the lower class, unable to mount a legal defense. Odd that they leave a minister alone. Much like robbers and bad guys, they picked easy targets, where they had the advantage of numbers, weapons, and position.

A defensible position, and a legal position might give pause to LEO's acting out illegal orders.

I wish I had more information on this. By what authority did the mayor/LEO chief confiscate guns in Katrina? Martial law provisions in the Louisiana Constitution?

What is clear in Katrina is LEO can be ordered to carry out later to be determined illegal actions, with little or no consequences.

Anybody have more on this subject?

It certainly gives new meaning to 'disaster planning', and how you would deal with such a major natural disaster.

In this case it's very clear the government was NOT on your side.
 
The rich would have flown away from the disaster area ages ago, no?

By the way, there is also a problem of FAKE LEOs... the criminals play dress up after somehow getting their hands on LEO uniforms, etc.
 
http://www.examiner.com/article/five-years-later-no-accountability-for-post-katrina-gun-grab

No consequences.

It DID happen here, and not long ago.

Utah passed a law to stop such actions:
http://www.examiner.com/article/five-years-later-no-accountability-for-post-katrina-gun-grab

I guess that way the people of Utah will clearly know the LEO are acting illegally...

It gets better: A court order is required to get the LEO/Mayor to follow the law and return the guns they stole:

http://saf.org/legal.action/new.orleans.lawsuit/consent.order.final.pdf

http://www.examiner.com/article/fed...er-katrina-gun-seizures-should-play-into-case

Appears the mayor was going to do it again:

http://www.saf.org/viewpr-new.asp?id=189

The more you dig, the better it gets:
Rich hire private security and stay:
http://www.tulanelink.com/stories/o'dwyer_10a.htm

I guess if your an attorney, with a gun, protecting your property, here's what happens:
http://www.tulanelink.com/tulanelink/hartley_box.htm

This last link is pretty terrifying: This attorney was kidnapped, beaten, pepper sprayed, and shot with shotgun, using bean bags.
It appears he's lost his law license, and the Federal system dismissed all charges against the people that did this to him:

http://www.tulanelink.com/stories/o'dwyer_10a.htm
 
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