Some ADs, Gear,Guns,or technique?

[tipoc]

Below are a few examples of ADs. Some involved trained persons.

So was the problem the guns, the gear, or the technique?

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23155408-3102,00.html

http://www.southcoasttoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080520/NEWS/805200357

http://www.sltrib.com/News/ci_9338834

http://www.azcentral.com/community/mesa/articles/2008/04/28/20080428abrk-hotelshooting042808.html

http://www.newjerseyhunter.com/article42638.htm

http://www.wqad.com/Global/story.asp?S=8042294

I have an opinion but would like to read what others think.

I could have included the famous you tube video of the instructor shooting himself but there are plenty of other examples.
tipoc

 

[Steve C]

The problem was all human error. Finger on the trigger when holstering. Failure to clear the chamber. Simply not thinking clearly under the circumstance.

This one really gets my goat:

Paul Raynolds, an NRA certified firearms instructor, said the Glock does not have an external hammer, but an "internal striker."

Before the gun can be "field stripped" for cleaning, the trigger must be depressed to uncock the striker, a feature that Raynolds called "inherently unsafe."

"The only problem is that if you left a round in the chamber, it's going to fire," he said. "I don't know if it's fairly common, but we've definitely seen other instances of this."

The procedure, he said, would be to take out the magazine and "rack the slide" to eject any rounds in the chamber, and visually inspect the chamber to make sure it's empty before pressing the trigger.

All semi automatics need you to make sure you check the chamber to makes sure there's no round in it before disassembly for cleaning.

"Even if you check the gun 15 times, you would still point the gun in a safe direction," Raynolds said.

The good thing is that you generally have to violate 2 of the gun safety rules to kill or injure someone. An AD shouldn't hurt anyone UNLESS you are pointing the weapon at someone or some thing you don't want to shoot.

 

[Okiecruffler]

Well I don't see where any of those is an AD. I'm not sure if I've ever seen an AD. What we have there is a batch of ND's, just like always. It ain't the gun, it ain't the gear. You could say it was the technique, but you'd be more accurate to call it carelessness.

 

[johnson_n]

http://www.sltrib.com/News/ci_9338834

Riverdale Police Chief Dave Hansen will likely keep his job despite violating safety policies when he shot himself with his service gun, officials said after releasing an internal police report.

"It was an accident. That's the way we're treating it," Riverdale City Administrator Larry Hansen, who is not related to the chief, said. He didn't foresee any changes to the chief's job status.

The shooting happened May 3 during a training class for concealed weapons permits. Hansen, 54, was trying to demonstrate the rifling grooves inside the barrel of his loaded Glock 27 when he said, "I don't know I can show you this without pointing it at anyone," according to the Riverdale police department internal affairs investigation.

Hansen decided to take the gun apart instead. He had loaded the semi-automatic weapon during a previous demonstration, and a clip was still inside, the report states.

To remove the slide on a Glock, the trigger must be pulled, the report states. With the gun under the table and pointed at the floor, Hansen pulled it.
A bullet shot from the gun, entered his left calf and exited from the ankle.

"He was struggling to remove it . . .saying 'It's been awhile since I've done this,' and the next thing BOOM," one participant stated in the report. "I thought it was a part of the class, then I saw the bullet and the blood and it set in."

 

[Cosmoline]

An ACCIDENTAL discharge would happen if the firearm goes off by itself due to an unforseen mechanical failure. A sear cracking off for example or a slam fire due to a pin stuck forward. Alternatively, it could be that an otherwise safe operator doesn't know something odd about the particular firearm. The way a Nambu can be set off, for example. Doesn't happen very often. Anything else is at least negligent and maybe worse.

 

[mljdeckard]

I quite agree. I don't remember the last time I heard of a discharge that was genuinely due to mechanical failure. And even if it were, the four rules would render it harmless.

 

[tipoc]

OK, so now that the ND vs. AD is clear...

tipoc

 

[Okiecruffler]

My answer doesn't change, still say carelessness. I'm no Glock fan, but the reason you see more AD's with Glocks is becasue everyone uses them. I carried a Glock for quite awhile, tore it down, cleaned it, practiced draws, never had a single AD with one. My AD was many moons ago with a bolt action shotgun.

 

[tipoc]

This thread is not about Glocks. I agree with you Okie. Now what?

Well it had nothing to do with the guns. It had nothing to do with the equipment, with the style of holster for example (which we know nothing about).
It was all, every bit of it due to lack of concentration, carelessness, in a case or two stupidity. Of folks forgetting the procedures they are trying to explain as they concentrate on trying to explain it rather than do it, etc.

tipoc

 

[1911Tuner]

That the Glock requires pulling the trigger in order to field-strip isn't a design flaw, and it's not "Inherently Unsafe" unless the man who handles it is inherently unsafe. Such people should refrain from handling potentially dangerous machinery.

Don't blame the Glock. Blame the man who was trained and instructed on this feature, and had a mental flameout.

The cop who shot himself in the leg violated Rule 2. Don't point it at anything that you don't want to make a hole in. That includes parts of your own body.

He also violated two critical common sense rules. LOOK...into the chamber to SEE...that it's not hot.

Never allow live ammunition to be accessible during a training session. Unload and clear the weapon before the class starts. That way, if the "trainer" does manage to bust a cap, at least he'll be the only one at risk.

As has been noted...this isn't about Glocks. The Glock is a good weapon.
It does have a few features that require complete familiarization if one is to avoid shooting oneself or other people.
The statement...

"It's been a while since I've done this."

...speaks volumes.

 

[cog099]

Human Error

I have seen relative gun novices at the range unload a pistol in the following manner. Rack the slide to see that cool little bullet fly out, then drop the magazine. HELLO! Maybe it's too many movies, they can't shoot for **** but they sure are good at racking that slide and watching that bullet fly out. You should see the look on my wife's cousins face when I racked the slide again.

AD's are not exclusive to newbies, but alot of newbies don't understand the risk of AD's Perhaps firearms require more respect than some people can muster newbies and experienced alike.