Home invaders pretend to be police

[camslam]

Cops are a necessary evil that must be tolerated by a free people. Their sole purpose is to collect evidence of crimes against the state to assist the prosecutor in presenting a viable case to a court.

Yep. I know several cops and a few of them feel the same way.

Rarely do police ever prevent a crime, usually they are cleaning up and investigating.

I have never had a policeman knock on my door, but I have thought many times if they ever do, I will be polite, I will ask for proof of themselves and their actions, and I will be prepared in case something is hinky.

 

[Travis McGee]

Thernlund: I love your LE notice!

 

[.38 Special]

...total replacement of door and frame with a steel door and frame set...

This is actually more-or-less what I had in mind. The cost/benefit ratio would be way out of kilter for someone in my shoes, but I'll bet there's at least one guy out there who has done it!

 

[pbearperry]

I have to ask this question.Has anyone here ever had their homes raided by the Police.If so why were they trying to gain entrance?No, I am not interested about the time the cops raided your 2nd cousins ex girlfriend boyfriends house......ad nauseum

 

[C96]

TCB in TN said

I am willing to bet that in 9999 out of 1000 times forced entry could be avoided!

Your profile says you teach. Hopefully nothing to do with numbers.

 

[thebaldguy]

I think a quick call to 911 is in order; if you think something is not right, call the police and let them know that you're not sure if the people at your door are real police officers.

 

[Zoogster]

call the police and let them know that you're not sure if the people at your door are real police officers.

Well certainly, if they are polite enough to wait at the door. If they are doing that they are going to likely be polite enough to wait for you to answer it as well.
In such cases they won't be storming inside leaving the individuals inside with a few seconds reaction time.

Such situations don't really apply to forced entry though.

 

[Wheeler44]

pbearperry asks;

I have to ask this question.Has anyone here ever had their homes raided by the Police.If so why were they trying to gain entrance?

pberry, the ones that folks are referring to are either dead, crippled, or in jail.

Other cops here have admitted to being involved in raids on the wrong home, and some are questioning the validity of no knock and short knock warrants.

In many cases some actual INVESTIGATION would have made a huge difference in the outcome. Sometimes the cops were dirty and the investigation that would make a difference is Internal Investigation.

The op asks what are home owners to do in light of bad guys gettin' all mall ninja and knockin' down doors, yellin' "Police" as they do it.

What suggestions do you as a police officer have to help innocent citizens cope with this disturbing trend in criminal behavior?

 

[230RN]

Background research on the Fourth Amendment
(regarding unreasonable searches and siezures) uncovered this quote from William Pitt in Parliament in 1763:

"The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the force of the crown. It may be frail--its roof may shake--the wind may blow through it--the storm may enter, the rain may enter--but the King of England cannot enter --all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement.''

Just figured I'd post that again.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

If we're willing to pay more for their time, prolonged stake-out/sieges could be used instead of forced entry in many cases. Unless someone is in danger inside, just wait around outside for the suspect to come out. Of course this is going to take a lot more time and use up a lot of police personnel babysitting suspect houses, so cost is an issue. History tells us the sieges almost always work. They have to come out sometime. All of these stings on drug dealers and such, they could just wait for the dealers to come out for something and and nab them on the street.

 

[TAB]

I can tell you, it takes alot more work then just replacing the door and jamb to make it "kick resistant"

I've installed dozens apon dozens of security door/jambs... what happends when they get kicked in? you just have to replace the wall too.

It takes complete reframing of the wall and anchoring in to the foundation to do any good. Now the "new york bar" actually works very well and its cheap. Besides there are plenty of other ways to get into a home quick. Its only as strong as you weakest point.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

What is the new york bar?

 

[paintballdude902]

i would have a gun at the ready wanting a badge

 

[TAB]

What is the new york bar?

a bar/stick that goes at an angle from underneath the door knob to a block on the floor. One of the few "cheap" things you can do to a door to make it stronger( that actually works)

 

[Zoogster]

i would have a gun at the ready wanting a badge

Then you would wind up like this guy about a week ago:

http://cbs2.com/local/Inglewood.Police.Postal.2.775701.html

A man answered the door when police came knocking at 12:30 at night with a pistol.
Supposedly he was then shot when he raised the pistol, by the same officer involved in a fatal shooting in May who had just got off leave and returned to active duty.
We will never know if he really "raised" the pistol, but we do know he answered the door to actual police with a pistol in his hand, not normaly considered the smartest tactic, and ended up dead as a result.

The dead man had no criminal record, and lived in a bad area. Would you have answered the door at 12:30 with a pistol in a high crime area on a Monday when not expecting any visitors ? What if they claimed it was the police?

I guess you would. It might be the last thing you ever did.

Being given the option of answering the door or dictating events on your own schedule is not really what the thread is about though.
That presents the ability to make choices you feel are reasonable under the circumstances.



There is criminals that burst into homes claiming to be the police sometimes even dressed as them, giving far less time to think of the most logical response while you are awoken and must deal with intruders.
Sometimes they are actualy police, sometimes they are criminals yelling police.
Quick, make your decision in the dark, half asleep, you have a few seconds before they reach you or family members' bedrooms.
If you have a protective dog that rushes out to meet them, it will probably be the first thing shot both by actual police in self defense, or criminals, so that is really not a clue either way.
It might give you a couple more seconds to wake up though before making the life changing decision.

 

[sailortoo]

I do not have any expertise in "break-in proofing" a doorway, but the comment about lock picking did ring a bell. As lock-pick tools, with instructions, are available anywhere (and on line, and by mail), I was concerned. I dreamed up a simple method to foil a lock pick, only to see the same idea in a box at the local locksmith, for a few dollars. A firm strip of cloth, short slit on one end, and velcro attached. With a dead bolt rotating bar inside latch, the cloth slips over one end of the bar, wraps around the door handle below, and velcros closed. No matter how good the lock pick is, the lock cannot move. Only good if you or someone else is in the house, as you can't open the lock from outside with a key, either. I use them for lock up at night. Not one bit of help when a #12 boot is used, instead of a lock pick! Just one more (cheap) item for self defense.
sailortoo

 

[protolith]

This is actually one of my biggest legitimate fears.

In Las Vegas the rate of home invasion is roughly on the same order as the national rate for errors in Police Raids where the wrong house is raided.

So it means I have a roughly 50/50 chance that someone breaking down my door is either Police making a mistake or an actual Home invasion. - It doesn't help that No Knock raids are now allowed here.

So thats it, If I was knowingly conducting criminal activity,then I would have good reason to expect that a raid is a legitimate police raid.

After reading this report from the Cato Institute regarding botched raids,
http://www.catostore.org/index.asp?fa=ProductDetails&method=cats&scid=15&pid=1441318
I realized that my options in a Home Invasion/Botched Police Raid scenario are to either immediately capitulate or kill everyone coming through the door.
It seems that every time someone is armed while being surprised by Police in a botched Raid, they end up dead. It seems increasingly common that anyone that cooperates with actual home invaders ends up dead.

I guess it leaves me with the old adage -

Its better to be judged by 12 than carried by six...

 

[plexreticle]

Another reason why smash and grab police tactics are dangerous and need to be stopped for anything other than a hostage situation.

 

[Defensory]

An inexpensive option for those who simply can't afford expensive doors, frames and locks:

Door wedge with built-in alarm.

http://www.personalarms.com/home_alarms/door_stop_alarm.htm

 

[Deanimator]

The LAPD is known to have police that did this regularly for years. So some of these bastards may well be police officers robbing people.

Chicago PD too. One of them was on "60 Minutes" recently. The ringleader tried to put out a contract on some of the others to cover things up when the Feds busted them. Strangely, Chicago IAD did NOTHING... for YEARS.

Here's a neat question:

What do you do when it really IS the cops and they're there to rob or [as happened in at least one case with Chicago SOS] kidnap you?

Do I have the right to defend myself? Remember, somebody who's willing to hire a hitman may not be the one to believe when he tells you he'll let you go after you take him to the ATM and get some money.

I'd really like to have some LEO advice on that one.

 

[Deanimator]

I think a quick call to 911 is in order; if you think something is not right, call the police and let them know that you're not sure if the people at your door are real police officers.

That's probably going to be seen as non-[instant]compliance and result in the door being busted down and bad things done to you.

 

[Treo]

The cop advice you're gonna get is "If you resist you're gonna have bad day"

 

[Deanimator]

The cop advice you're gonna get is "If you resist you're gonna have bad day"

And if I DON'T resist, I could have a bad day... unless you consider being robbed and or kidnapped and or murdered "good".

 

[sprithitler]

You cant make your home entirely secure from an determined invader, what you can do is buy time.
I would suggest decoy doors. Behind the normal rather sturdy and well locked front doorthat takes a bit more effort than most doors to break down you have a reinforced antechamber leading up to a heavily reinforced door that even with the best of police equipment takes at least ten minutes of loud work, or the use of explosives to take down. This Antechamber should be possible to in some way flood with pepperspray. This way you will be forewarned when someone tries to enter.
Any backdoor should be similarly difficult to get through. This is construction work that goes in the thousands of dollars, though not in the tens of thousands, if you do the work yourself, which you should do, since you dont want some outsider to know the details of your fortifications.
There are other ways of entry though, The windows. How do you harden those entrances without getting the feeling of living in alcatraz? Well, there are security films that are applied to the inside of the windows, making them shatterproof, combined with reinforcing strips of wood or aluminium along the sides of the glass i have seen two guys with heavy sledgehammers try to break through a 2,5 by 7 feet glass door, unsuccessfully for ten minutes. This safety measure will not be seen from the outside, and if you put it on both or all three layers of glass in a window it will be secure indeed.
All these measures will cost quite a bit, but compared to the price of a house, or to the value of your possesions inside that house it is not all that expensive.
With these measures you have a fortress at night, and a normal suburb House at day. A fortress that keeps criminal homeinvaders, or rapid police entries out for long enough to arm yourself, collect your family and confirm with the policedispatcher that the invaders are quite shootable. And a House that if you keep a painting or something to cover the securitydoor dont gets the neighboors to think "paranoid Freak" during social hours.

 

[Zip7]

In South Africa cars can be retrofitted with flame throwers aimed to the side of the driver and passenger's doors to handle car jackers.

Awesome!

I would suggest decoy doors...

Well, since in the movies the Police always bust in the front door, I was going to suggest a Burmese tiger pit immediately inside the front door - walled off from the living room, etc. with a half wall perhaps, and you just use the other door all the time.

Would be really cool if you kept a real live tiger in there - with a permit of course...