Sometimes Peaceful Protest Works

[BullfrogKen]

You admit you prefer the heavy hand of totalitarianism and oppression over freedom and liberty?


What is it you propose be done with people who don't see things the way you and your government do?

 

[Rachen]

Having Redcoats and Japanese oppressors walking the streets of Shanghai and other places and telling us what to do on our own soil isn't exactly freedom and liberty.

 

[BullfrogKen]

And the Chinese military doing the same is?


Again, how do you propose to handle people who don't see things your way?

 

[Rachen]

Again, how do you propose to handle people who don't see things your way?

There are many people who don't see things my way, or at least some things.
Have I ever said anything un-high road toward them?

 

[WayneConrad]

(redacted--no longer needed... and thanks)

 

[Rachen]

Sorry, edited my post.

 

[BullfrogKen]

I'm not suggesting here, Rachen. You don't have anything invested in an internet bulletin board.


I'm talking about "your" nation China. How do you propose to handle brethern who don't see things the way you do? There are plenty of Chinese exiles who don't agree that the current form of government in China is the glorious, heroic utopia you think it to be.


How do you propose to handle those "dissidents?" How do you propose to handle those who think there is a better way to run a government than totalitarianism? What do you propose be done with those who actively protest, campaign against, resist, and undermine what they feel is a corrupt form of government?

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

historically the chinese response is a song with one note

 

[Rachen]

Actually, I don't have much of an opinion on what the CCP should or should not do.

If they can bring our nation back to it's feet again, give us an honorable seat in world politics, rescue so many of our people when disasters such as the Yellow River flooding, the Tangshang earthquake, or the most recent earthquake, and allow our nation the honor of hosting the Olympics, and other world events, I am proud of the CCP.

Over the last few weeks, when I am not on THR, I am standing on the streets of Chinatown with my minivan completely draped with pictures of the earthquake rescue effort, and loudspeakers added to the front of the vehicle playing patriotic songs, and urging every single passerby to donate money to the relief effort.

I myself have donated two entire paychecks, without a single word or hesitation.

I have used up almost 300 dollars worth of just gasoline money going to and back from Flushing and Chinatown, and the relief organizations in these areas, out of my own free will. Just like how I fight for the 2nd Amendment whenever it is threatened. I don't take money for all of that.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

you know most of the chinese folk i know who talk about "going home" plan on it being in a box to be buried. never knew any that went home alive

 

[Ergosphere]

BullfrogKen, I may be misunderstanding you, but... China has a capitalist economy and a totalitarian government. Communists often conflate capitalism with democracy, but of course one is an economic system and the other is a system of government; the two should not be confused.

We are different than other "nationalistic" regimes.

Not really. The Chinese government is very similar to other nationalistic, totalitarian governments... rampant human rights abuses, corruption, threatening neighbors (Taiwan), etc.

I rather live in a China where we are strong, and free from imperialist aggression

FUD. The days of colonial imperialism are long over.

The Mandate of Heaven is always in favor of a ruler or ruling party who can restore the Middle Kingdom back to it's greatness and prosperity.

That's laying it on a little think, don'tcha think? Talk about nationalism... echos of "manifest destiny," anyone? I really don't want to see another round of colonial imperialism led by China, but that's exactly what Rachen's attitude indicates, even though he pretends to suggest otherwise.

 

[Owen]

How can you claim your track is 5000 years long, when Mao's entire goal in the 50s and 60s was to eliminate the core of Chinese Culture, so they'd be good communists.

I figure the 5000 years ended about 300 years ago.

 

[Ergosphere]

How do you propose to handle those "dissidents?" How do you propose to handle those who think there is a better way to run a government than totalitarianism? What do you propose be done with those who actively protest, campaign against, resist, and undermine what they feel is a corrupt form of government?

He answered that on the first page

I love my country, and is happy that all those traitorous scum got crushed by the might of the People's Liberation Army.

 

[Rachen]

How can you claim your track is 5000 years long, when Mao's entire goal in the 50s and 60s was to eliminate the core of Chinese Culture, so they'd be good communists.

Even the purest piece of jade has impurities.

Even the sweetest melons harbor bitter parts.

Even the largest rivers and oceans have shallow regions.

Even the warmest summer night will have a chilly breeze.

Even the most noble leaders have flaws.



But we cannot let their wrongdoings overwhelm the good they have have accomplished.

 

[Rachen]

threatening neighbors (Taiwan),

Taiwan is always the property of China. I hope to see peaceful reunification back to the motherland.

 

[357WheelGun]

For one thing, we are not affiliated with any of that other stuff. We run on our own track, and the track is over 5,000 years long. The Han Dynasty, the Tang, the Early Song, the Ming, and the Early Qing are examples of Chinese military and diplomatic power.

The Mandate of Heaven is always in favor of a ruler or ruling party who can restore the Middle Kingdom back to it's greatness and prosperity.

And the Nazi party claimed their own line through the "Aryan Race" back to 8,000 BC as well as a divine mandate for the greatness of the German people.

"What we are we have become not against, but with, the will of Providence. And so long as we are true and honourable and of good courage in fight, so long as we believe in our great work and do not capitulate, we shall continue to enjoy in the future the blessing of Providence." - Adolf Hitler, 1935

"I go the way that Providence dictates with the assurance of a sleepwalker." - Adolf Hitler, 1936

"I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. ...I am fighting for the Lord's work." - Adolf Hitler, 1936

The parallels between Nazi rhetoric and your own are disturbingly strong. The above quotes could go on and on, but the three above are sufficient. Citing a divine mandate is common among all regimes, you gain no special legitimization from the CCP's claim.

 

[rainbowbob]

Seriously Rachen...what holds you here so far from the homeland? Why don't you return to be a part of the glorious rebuilding? Why won't you answer this question?

I suspect that the answer is either you are here on a misson to spread CCP-sanctioned mis-information - or you realize how miserable you would be in China and just won't admit it.

You are of course welcome to stay in the US - I just don't understand why you want to.

 

[BullfrogKen]

Rachen, that's all well and good, and I applaud your efforts.


What concerns me is this, your words from page #1:

Too bad more "protesters" weren't killed, injured, or arrested.

These scum were the products of foreign imperialist brainwashing. If 6-4 had succeeded, China would not be the China of today. China would be carved up again by major world powers, and ravaged by clan warfare and brutal retaliations that result from the clashing warlords.

Mei Yo Gong Zhang Dang Juo Mei Yo Xing Zhong Guo
Translation: Without the Communist party, there will be no new China.

Long live the CCP! For protecting our nation and upholding our 5,000 years of glorious civilization!

Down with traitors and usurpers in our country and may they rot in Hell.

The " student" disappeared, hopefully for good.

I don't care if I get flamed. I love my country, and is happy that all those traitorous scum got crushed by the might of the People's Liberation Army.

So, flame me all you want, but that won't make my love for my country fade even a bit.

What really bothers me is that you are not simply OK with your government using the military to suppress dissention and those critical of the One China policy, you are proud of it.

We have our dissenters here in America, too. But the difference between open, free societies and ones like China are we don't imprison them merely for their views, and we protect and embrace their rights to speak them. Were this to happen in America we would be outraged. Outraged to the point of violent overthrow of those who claim to be our "masters of what is good and right."


Once you start down the path of condoning the use of force upon others, those masters do not give that power up. And as long as there are enough people who think like you among the citizenry, there will be no need to. That sort of suppression is not a good thing, my friend. It bothers me greatly that you are proud of it.

 

[Ergosphere]

Taiwan is always the property of China.

Well, that was certainly true up until 1949. Since then, it has been completely independent, with it's own government and military. The people of Taiwan have made it clear, by their actions, that they do not wish to be under communist Chinese rule.

But clearly, since they are the "property" of China, it's okay to kill them and impose your government's rule on them. That sounds like nationalist totalitarianism to me.

I hope to see peaceful reunification back to the motherland.

And I hope to see real democracy and freedom in China someday. I suggest that neither of us should hold our breath.

 

[Rachen]

I spoke in the tones that I spoke on the first page, because I cannot believe someone actually sympathizes with these rioters. These rioters don't want democracy. They want to see China fall and divided by major world powers again. They wish nothing but evil on us. I personally despise them even more than I despise spoiled food.

 

[Wheeler44]

Rachen says;

There are many people who don't see things my way, or at least some things.
Have I ever said anything un-high road toward them?

After he says;

Too bad more "protesters" weren't killed, injured, or arrested........................................................................................
...................................................................................................

Down with traitors and usurpers in our country and may they rot in Hell.

The " student" disappeared, hopefully for good.

Since the above post laments that more people weren't killed, injured and arrested and celebrates the fact that people can "disappear" for disagreeing with the government I would have to say yes

 

[BullfrogKen]

And that makes it OK to drive tanks over them, doesn't it?


We have political opponents that sicken us here, too. The difference is we don't exterminate them.

 

[Ergosphere]

I spoke in the tones that I spoke on the first page, because I cannot believe someone actually sympathizes with these rioters. These rioters don't want democracy. They want to see China fall and divided by major world powers again. They wish nothing but evil on us. I personally despise them even more than I despise spoiled food.

As I said before, my wife shared an office with someone who was there and saw the Tiennenman square massacre first-hand. The account was nothing like you describe.

 

[Rachen]

Who said we drove tanks over them?

If you watched the footage, you will see that we possessed great restraint, and that three out of the four tanks even had muzzle-covers, while the one that was uncovered was loaded with tear gas shells.

The man held up the tanks for several minutes, until he was dragged back to the sidewalk by a bystander.

 

[Rachen]

After he says;

Of course, these rabble have murdered over 23 PLA soldiers in cold blood right in the darkened streets before the soldiers started to fire in self defense.