Sometimes Peaceful Protest Works

[Wes Janson]

I can only sincerely hope that Rachen, if indeed earnest in his beliefs, represents only a fringe minority of Chinese citizens.

In regards to the OP, there's a great Turtledove story titled "The Last Article", that posits what would have occured had Gandhi attempted his campaign of nonviolent resistence against Nazi occupiers of India. The sad thing is, I have absolutely no doubt that it's almost precisely what would have happened-the government puts up with opposition for about ten minutes, and then shoots everyone who causes a problem.

 

[Dravur]

each of them vulnerable to attack by merciless, land hungry prowlers from the outside. Can a divided nation ever stand?

Wow, good thing China was there to "protect" Tibet from the many herds of people trying to take it over. I'll bet that makes the average Tibetan feel all snuggly inside.

Truth be told, the Chinese Government is just another corrupt communist state.

I keep wondering, if living under the chinese boot is so great, why is Rachen here? I would expect that he would be doing his best to get back to paradise....

Of course, he would not be able to log back onto THR. Im pretty sure, his masters would not let that happen.

I wouldn't really need a gun if I was living in Shanghai, a place where you can wander all through the streets all through the night,

I wonder where the word Shanghaid came from? hmmmmm

But right now, we are just starting to work on our constitution, and at the same time, give to the people little by little. When you give a hungry man too much food, he will throw it all up. When you give it to him in moderate amounts, he will be thankful.

What a platitude. or a pantload....

 

[[FH]K96]

CA is just ridiculous. They don't even allow you to defend yourself or home.

Wrong. You can use lethal force (firearm or otherwise) to defend life and body in your domicile.

 

[Rachen]

I wonder where the word Shanghaid came from? hmmmmm

"Shanghaid" comes from the late nineteenth to early twentieth century, which means abduction. Shanghai at that time was run by filthy British imperialists, the same pack of **** that you guys defeated in 1783. When Shanghai was liberated in 1949, the CCP drove out every single British and French rabble rouser, after bleeding their economic assets dry and forcing them to pay massive back taxes and fines

Go visit Shanghai today. The minute you step off the airplane, you will find yourself in a truly mystical place. Go ride on the Maglev too.

And some folks here even have the audacity to call me an anti-gun leftist??? Do you know what I had done for the sake of the 2nd Amendment since junior high school?
I will not even answer, or look at these posts.

You extol one group, but vilify the other. I find this very confusing.
What are the differences that allow you to feel so differently about these two groups?

The Confederate Army did more for the people than any Yankee of the nineteenth century prior to the War of Northern Aggression. If the Confederates won the nation, they would have, no doubt, never accepted the fact that the US can be divided. It will be like the CCP in 1946, liberate the entire nation and unite every single corner under a strong central government.

Tibet was still practicing cannabalism in 1949 when the PLA liberated China. From 1950 and 1970, our nation lost more than 20,000 soldiers in the Tibetans mountains, building three highways and two railroads so the Tibetan people can connect with the rest of the country. Visit Lhasa today, you will see things you would never have seen twenty years ago. Benz automobiles, Cadillacs, Audis, personal computers, LCD TVs, etc... etc... The CCP done so much for the Tibetan people, we just can't stand the small minority of them being so thankless and revolting against us, after all of our brave soldiers froze to death in these harsh mountains, rebuilding Tibet for it's people.

Someone posted a link about the Cultural Revolution, and behold, the narrator speaks with a nice British accent. LOL, our longtime enemy is probably mad that we took Hong Kong back, right? LMAO!
Nice try UK, but you are not getting one inch of our land anymore.

You want to learn something about the real Chinese CCP and the People's Liberation Army, here you go: The language may be in Chinese, but if you want me to translate, I will gladly do it. Where else would entire regiments of soldiers use their own bodies to stem floodwaters so the citizens living in the towns behind them can have a chance to escape? When I saw this video for the first time on DVD, I was in tears.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1-oCt0_Bz4

 

[OMGWTFBBQ]

If I were to go and try and talk about the evils of communism in a public place in China, where do you think that would get me? Thrown in jail and then deported. You come here and rant against the evil capitalists and our freedoms of speech and expression and what do we do? Nothing, you can say whatever the heck you want to so long as it isn't a threat and it doesn't directly endanger others(screaming fire in a crowded theater, etc.) and the government lets you be(with your guns, even!).


Ain't freedom great ?

 

[WayneConrad]

4. The Falun Gong and their mesmerizing speeches and promises have resulted in the deaths of approximately 10,000 people between 1992 and 1997. Entire families have been murdered, the most grisly crime scenes are in Szechuan and Shaanxi. Finally in 1999, the government had enough, and ordered the arrests and expulsions of all FLG members. I guess, now, expulsion seemed like a bad idea, since they come into the US now and started to recruit non Chinese as well as Chinese.

I want to get back to this, because I think I gave you a pass on it.

Let's see some documentation for this number, please. Other than Chinese government press releases.

Also, the proper action for murder is to try and punish the murderers. Punishment of a group for the actions of an individual is a violation of human rights.

You may be catching on that some of us a very uptight about human rights. We don't care how sparking the cities are, or how vile the cult. We care about rights more than any other thing, for if men are not secure in their rights, the sparkling veneer will soon flake off and reveal the true depravity of which unfettered government is capable.

 

[Rachen]

Also, the proper action for murder is to try and punish the murderers. Punishment of a group for the actions of an individual is a violation of human rights.

Yes, the actual murderers are dead and buried quicker than a flash of light, but we also want the rest of them out! China doesn't need a murderous cult to interfere with it's rebuilding.

 

[The Viking]

I wonder where the word Shanghaid came from? hmmmmm

AFAIK, it's originated in the US during the 19th century, when people were often forced to sign on as crewmembers on journeys to places that were considered a bit rough. Shanghai was one of those places, thus "Shanghaied".

 

[WayneConrad]

Yes, the actual murderers are dead and buried quicker than a flash of light, but we also want the rest of them out! China doesn't need a murderous cult to interfere with it's rebuilding.

Wrong again. Punishing people before they've done something, merely because we think they might, is also a violation of human rights. Even quoting what you just wrote makes me ill--it's been used an excuse for atrocities large and small throughout history.

 

[Rachen]

Wrong again. Punishing people before they've done something, merely because we think they might, is also a violation of human rights. Even quoting what you just wrote makes me ill--it's been used an excuse for atrocities large and small throughout history.

We just kicked them out of China. And today, they have invaded every single big city in the US of A and started to recruit members, non Chinese as well as Chinese.

Now they are penetrating even further into the heartland. They are disguised as martial arts schools, health and fitness clubs, acupuncture clinics, and even Buddhist temples.

For those of you who live in the heartland, I can only tell you this: Be careful, don't let them get you or your loved ones, they often use clever tricks to make you believe, then they open up a little more, and a little bit of the darkest realms of our fears come creeping in like a mist after a summer thunderstorm.

 

[Ergosphere]

I can only sincerely hope that Rachen, if indeed earnest in his beliefs, represents only a fringe minority of Chinese citizens.

I know a few people who were raised in China and came to the US as students (my wife and some of her friends). Rachen's expressed beliefs are typical but extreme. A few of the more open-minded ones will realize how they've been brainwashed once they are exposed to non-CCP news. My wife actually shared an office with someone who was present at the Tiennenman square protests... that started to open her eyes. Unlike Rachen, she has come to appreciate American liberty and the evils of the CCP.

The views that Rachen has expressed in this thread are essentially quoted, chapter and verse, from what my wife was taught in China. But most Chinese people don't take the propaganda to heart so much. BTW, my wife read this thread; her opinion is that Rachen is in the employ of the CCP.

Rachen, you are embarrassing both yourself and China.

 

[Ergosphere]

We just kicked them out of China. And today, they have invaded every single big city in the US of A

Yes, they were kicked out years ago. Hmm... it's funny how I don't see any news reports of Falun Gong practitioners causing murders and suicides here in the US.

Maybe, just maybe, that's because they weren't actually preaching that in the first place.

 

[WayneConrad]

Punishing people before they've done something, merely because we think they might, is also a violation of human rights.

We just kicked them out of China.

Exile is punishment. It's still a human rights violation.

Persecution of F. Gong members is well documented. Based upon that, I have trouble imagining that the exiled members were "just" kicked out of China. Were they permitted to leave with their property? Were they permitted to leave with their children? How long and in what ways were they interrogated before they were exiled?

"Just kicked out." What an astonishing thing to say. You've taken a major human rights violation and made it sound like a slap on the wrist.

 

[Wheeler44]

"Just kicked out." What an astonishing thing to say. You've taken a major human rights violation and made it sound like a slap on the wrist.

Kinda like the dissenters that "disappeared"?

 

[BullfrogKen]

Rachen, the fact that you pick and choose which revolutionaries you admire should tell you something about your ability to look at Chinese policies and the government objectively.

Your thoughts are not consistent on many issues. Capitalism is bad, and China kicked out all foreign business interests? I'm not sure that's accurate. Nations around the world have Chinese labor produce goods sold to the Western world. Goods can be produced in China at a much lower cost, because the standard of living is lower than developed countries.

This sounds like any other totalitarian propoganda I've ever read. Cuba and Castro says much the same things.

Rachen, I don't think you're an anti-gun leftist. However, I do think you've bought into anti-gun elitism, and have an inability to be objectively critical of the Chinese government, and of Communism itself.

Supressing dissention has long been the trademark of totalitarian regimes. And each one of them offered reasons that attempted to appeal to the average citizen under a pretense of establishing order and unity.


This thread illustrates the difference between Eastern and Western thought quite well. I'm perplexed that after living in America so long that you still hold onto those views so ardently.

Rachen, the Anglo-American political model has within it an inherent distrust of government. And it assumes giving government power is dangerous. Giving it unchecked power is downright suicidal.


When the citizenry loses the ability or desire to criticize its leaders, atrocities occur.

 

[Rachen]

Your thoughts are not consistent on many issues. Capitalism is bad, and China kicked out all foreign business interests? I'm not sure that's accurate. Nations around the world have Chinese labor produce goods sold to the Western world. Goods can be produced in China at a much lower cost, because the standard of living is lower than developed countries.

I actually meant in the first years of Liberation from 1949-1953, when we purged many businesses because they were way too corrupt and were occupying Chinese land unlawfully. Most of the land in Shanghai and Hong Kong held by the Brits were the results of blackmailing, and threats that the Brits forced upon Qing Emperor Daoguang in 1841, right after the defeat of Qing military forces in the Opium conflicts. In 1950, we finally got vengeance for that century-old humiliation.

Of course, today, China cannot live without foreign businesses. We are a capitalist country, but with a semi-socialist, conservative Confucian way of living. If you go to China today, you will be amazed at how much capitalism exists. Heck, any street in Shanghai will probably have many beautiful, neon lit signs from Siemens or Panasonic.

I don't support Communist theories at all. However, the Chinese Communist Party is anything but Communist. We are actually an extremely nationalistic movement. China for the Chinese! That has been the official mantra of the CCP since we engaged the Japanese during the bloody years of 1931-1945.
Why I love the CCP is because they had the guts to tell the foreign oppressors to "Leave us the f*** alone and give us ALL of our land back, the land that you taken by blackmailing and cowardice, or else, we will be REALLY REALLY pissed off". Unlike Emperor Daoguang, who had the audacity to kiss the Englishman's filthy boots, and Chiang Kai-Shek, who also kissed some serious imperialist a** when he was in power.
If Emperor Daoguang was a true patriot, he would have had any English diplomat who even dare to threaten him on his own soil hanged from the upper most towers of the Qing Imperial Palace. Daoguang was the grandson of great hero Jianlong, and the great grandson of the warrior general Kangxi, the unifier of the Mongol vassals. Daoguang's actions betrayed the Manchu warrior throne, and led to the ultimate fall of Manchu power in China.
The Manchus violated their Mandate of Heaven when they committed such acts of unspeakable treason and cowardice, and the spirits of the proud ancient kings and leaders saw to it they they will fall from the Dragon Throne with the most pain and disgrace.

Foreigners are allowed to do buisness on our soil, yes, as long as they follow OUR laws and regulations. This year's Olympics is coming up, and tears of pride is welling up in my eyes.

Thanks, BullFrogKen, for your input.

 

[Dravur]

This year's Olympics is coming up, and tears of pride is welling up in my eyes.

Naw, that's from the pollution.

Admittedly, China gets a great chance to propagandize their communist leadership, just as Hitler did, and Stalin did.

Sorry, you can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.

 

[357WheelGun]

I don't support Communist theories at all. However, the Chinese Communist Party is anything but Communist. We are actually an extremely nationalistic movement. China for the Chinese!

Hmmmm... What other nationalistic groups are there?

That's some mighty fine company that your nationalistic CCP has there.

"China for the Chinese" is disturbingly close in my mind to "Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer" and it definitely brings to mind images of rioting Neo-Nazis in Germany who were chanting "Germany for Germans!".

You might want to consider updating your propaganda. Right now, you sound all too much like old evils.

 

[rainbowbob]

Regarding China's treatment of Falun Gong, I found the following excerpt in Wikipedia (along with considerable documented coroboration). Pretty chilling...

There are particular concerns over reports of torture, illegal imprisonment including forced labour, and psychiatric abuses.

Falun Gong related cases comprise 66% of all reported torture cases in China, and at least half of the labour camp population.

Since 2006, Falun Gong has alleged systematic organ harvesting from living practitioners, and an investigation led by two Canadian parliamentarians, David Kilgour and David Matas, has lent support to the claims. Kilgour, former Secretary of State for Asia and the Pacific, commented "It is simply inescapable that this is going on", and Matas claimed that their evidence "has not been refuted".

Kilgour and Matas's conclusions are corroborated by two other independent investigations, by Dr. Kirk Allison, associate director of the program in human rights and medicine at the University of Minnesota, and European Parliament Vice President Edward McMillan-Scott.

 

[Rachen]

Darn, it took a pretty long time for Godwin's Law to come into play on this thread.

Take a close look at these Nazi scum and at our CCP.

The scum lasted for only a short while, then got beaten down nice and hard.

We on the other hand, is rising, back to our Warring Kingdom Spirit of the Han and Tang Dynasties. The CCP is a revival of the glorious Chinese power of the past, we have nothing, and want nothing to do with Nazis or white supremacists or black supremacists or anything related to them.

 

[BullfrogKen]

Rachen, these great "purges" are hallmarks of oppresive, totalitatian regimes. Stalin did it. Castro did it. Hitler did it. Pol Pot did it.

And each one proclaimed it was for the good of the people.


Expulsions. Purges. Exile. Whatever you call it, they are all accompanied by massive human rights violations. Interrogations and torture. Confiscation of property. Imprisonments. Murder.


The question you must honestly ask yourself is this - Is China better off under totalitarian rule? Not whether your roads are better. Whether people are better educated and have health care. Whether people are shielded from the evils of capitalism, whatever that means.

Business does not oppress people. Government can.

 

[Rachen]

The question you must honestly ask yourself is this - Is China better off under totalitarian rule? Not whether your roads are better. Whether people are better educated and have health care. Whether people are shielded from the evils of capitalism, whatever that means.

I rather live in a China where we are strong, and free from imperialist aggression. Sometimes, it takes a totalitarian regime to get everything together again. I know you will disagree, but sadly, that seems to be the case many times in history. Look at the Romans, look at Charles Martel and Charlemagne, look at William the Conqueror.

I would rather be dead than see my beloved country crawling with foreign imperialists, an Emperor who signs treasonous documents every time an Englishman threatens him, and bloody clan warfare tearing the countryside apart.

 

[rainbowbob]

While we're at it...

Rachen - You say you are a US citizen, which of course entitles you to all the rights and privileges that status infers. You do, however, seem to revere your true "homeland", China.

My question (which has been asked but not answered):

Why do you remain here in the US - instead of returning to the glorious homeland?

 

[357WheelGun]

Darn, it took a pretty long time for Godwin's Law to come into play on this thread.

Godwin's law does not address instances where comparisons are apt. There is no disputing the fact that the National Socialist Workers Party was a Nationalist party and no disputing the fact that Hitler's regime was a Nationalist regime. If you wish to claim that the CCP is a nationalist regime, as you do in your post, you must accept the fact that you are claiming other nationalistic regimes as bedfellows.

It is also a point of fact that Neo-Nazi groups in Germany do chant the phrase "Germany for Germans", which sounds an awful lot like "China for the Chinese" to my ears. It is amusing (and saddening) to me that you can say things like "China for the Chinese" and then call the US "xenophobic". There's heavy irony going on there.

 

[Rachen]

We are different than other "nationalistic" regimes.

For one thing, we are not affiliated with any of that other stuff. We run on our own track, and the track is over 5,000 years long. The Han Dynasty, the Tang, the Early Song, the Ming, and the Early Qing are examples of Chinese military and diplomatic power.

The Mandate of Heaven is always in favor of a ruler or ruling party who can restore the Middle Kingdom back to it's greatness and prosperity.