Speakin' of Dying Cartridges...

[1948CJ2A]

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25 should have been in the .308 case (or 7x57/6.5x55 for that matter)

It is - 7x57 necked down to 25 cal is called the 257 Roberts, and it's been around for about a century now.
Word.

Well... not quite. The mauser case compared to the 308 case is not apples to apples. The 7x57 will not fit into a short action as designed; though Remington did jam their 257 Roberts in the model 721, which prevented seating bullets out past the mag well length. The 308 case has less case capacity than the mauser case. And as another member already pointed out, SAAMI and other cartridge czars designate the 308 case with significantly more pressure. This is usually due to the "old, weaker, pre-98" milsurp rifles concern... though that's another whole conversation.

A 308 necked down to quarter-bore (25-08) is something I've always though would be a fun wildcat.I remember reading about it years back and someone nicknamed it the "25 Souper". You could make the argument that the 250 savage and the 257 roberts kept the 25 souper from commercial offerings but I'm not so sure about that.

 

[js8588]

look up the .257 blackjack it will do all
Of that and more if you do choose

I don't do wildcats. Factory offerings only. They can be fairly obscure (9.3x62), but still, factory available rifles/ammo.

 

[WestKentucky]

Guess I need to go and find me a M70 EW in 7mm08. What a shame, great cartridge.

Not that it matters all that much I’m not against rebarelling if I have to.

My EXACT thought.

 

[Garandimal]

HEY...as long as that Creedborg is running around that means there will be a healthy supply of 6.5mm bullets for my 6.5 Swede.
The two big reasons why I picked that caliber...it was a good old-school caliber that I've always been interested in for using on critters AND...when I pull up to the range and see these guys with their CM's and see me with my home-built beater shooting less than 1"...well...yeah...its nice

Grabbed ten boxes of SPEER .264"/140 gr. GS's while they were available and on rebate.

~ $0.22/pop.

My Creedmoor's Grandpa bug-holes'em.




GR

 

[Garandimal]

Specifically the fast twist rate "standard" on the CM family of cartridges.
https://blackjackbullets.com/product/blackjack-131-grain-ace-match-bullet-100-ct/?v=8f2564d40946

but even the 115 bergers can use a faster than 1-10 twist.

Seems like if they came out w/ a cartridge in .25-08... they could twist it to anything they wanted to.

They should come out w/ a 6.5mm-08 w/ the appropriate twist as well.

Not like that wouldn't be a winner.




GR

 

[WisBorn]

Seems like if they came out w/ a cartridge in .25-08... they could twist it to anything they wanted to.

They should come out w/ a 6.5mm-08 w/ the appropriate twist as well.

Not like that wouldn't be a winner.




GR

How would a 6.5-08 differ from the 260 Remington? Just a heavier weight / long bullet fast twist barrel???

 

[Garandimal]

How would a 6.5-08 differ from the 260 Remington? Just a heavier weight / long bullet fast twist barrel???

Sure.

That was the short leg easily fixed.




GR

 

[DukeConnor]

7mm Mag? Wow.

This was the one that surprised me

 

[MCMXI]

I like the WSM's and would choose the 300 WSM over the 300 WM, but don't believe it will ever overtake it. I'm a little surprised to see it dropped and 270 WSM still in production. The 300 was by far the most popular, with 270 WSM in 2nd place.

It might be getting harder to find 300 WSM fans who shoot factory ammunition compared to .300 Win Mag. I just sold 220 rounds of .300 WM Rem CORE-LOKT on Gunbroker for $320 with 12 bids whereas another auction I had for 200 rounds of 300 WSM Rem CORE-LOKT just ended with no bids, and it was a better deal.

 

[armedwalleye]

I'd be curious to see how many of these are simply limits in production facilities. Consider the Ruger #1, they limit the calibers produced in a given year, and there is some rotation. Further, consider as well you can't get every caliber in a left hand action, despite that, in a bolt action, it's the same barrel, left vs right. While some certainly is caliber favoritism, and what's hot and not at a particular time, I don't really see the popular calibers going away forever.

 

[Garandimal]

I'd be curious to see how many of these are simply limits in production facilities. Consider the Ruger #1, they limit the calibers produced in a given year, and there is some rotation. Further, consider as well you can't get every caliber in a left hand action, despite that, in a bolt action, it's the same barrel, left vs right. While some certainly is caliber favoritism, and what's hot and not at a particular time, I don't really see the popular calibers going away forever.

They also way be clearin' the decks to make way for new offerings as well.

The 6.8 WESTERN comes to mind.




GR

 

[LoonWulf]

Seems like if they came out w/ a cartridge in .25-08... they could twist it to anything they wanted to.

They should come out w/ a 6.5mm-08 w/ the appropriate twist as well.

Not like that wouldn't be a winner.




GR

Im not horribly surprised no one has come out with a commercial 25Creedmoor, or .25-08....the 25s, as much as some of us like them, dont really sell all that well, and the markets pretty full.

Ya know....I could actually see a re-release of the .260 called something like 260Long Range, and sold on the premise of the "perfect balance" between the slow 6.5CM and the barrel burning 6.5 magnums.......cause you know the 1-2gr of capacity difference will matter.
But again, folks might complain that you gotta seat the really long, long range bullets with the ogives inside the neck.....maybe we should shorten it so that dosent happen, and if were doing that, lest make it short enough to work from 2.800 magazine!
Muuuwahahahaha, sounds like we might have a winner!

Im only kinda joking given all the 6.5s that have popped out since the CM "made it".

 

[Garandimal]

Im not horribly surprised no one has come out with a commercial 25Creedmoor, or .25-08....the 25s, as much as some of us like them, dont really sell all that well, and the markets pretty full.

Ya know....I could actually see a re-release of the .260 called something like 260Long Range, and sold on the premise of the "perfect balance" between the slow 6.5CM and the barrel burning 6.5 magnums.......cause you know the 1-2gr of capacity difference will matter.
But again, folks might complain that you gotta seat the really long, long range bullets with the ogives inside the neck.....maybe we should shorten it so that dosent happen, and if were doing that, lest make it short enough to work from 2.800 magazine!
Muuuwahahahaha, sounds like we might have a winner!

Im only kinda joking given all the 6.5s that have popped out since the CM "made it".

The short action - is an artificial constraint that has ruined many a bolt-gun cartridge.


As for the .25-06...

To me, it always seemed to do less... w/ more.

Looked at one long and hard before settling on the .270 WIN.

Looked l&h at the 7mm Express Rem as well. Should have pumped that one full of 60K psi goodness from the factory.




GR

 

[BreechFace]

Looked l&h at the 7mm Express Rem as well.
GR

You mean Remington's new lipstick and rouge put on the 280 to cover up their inability to market at an earlier date?

I would say you should really give the 280ai a try, but with the 6.8 Westerner coming out, it seems to be right up the 270 Win fanatics alley.

 

[CraigC]

Not sure how significant one company's catalog is but some folks seem to have a different definition of "dead/dying/obsolete" than I do.

 

[Garandimal]

You mean Remington's new lipstick and rouge put on the 280 to cover up their inability to market at an earlier date?

I would say you should really give the 280ai a try, but with the 6.8 Westerner coming out, it seems to be right up the 270 Win fanatics alley.

They could have kept the "7mm Express" as a separate loading - at 60K psi for bolt-rifles.

Would have probably settled on the 160 gr... and never looked back.


As for the 6.8 Western...

Have yet to find a practical use for it... or the .270 WSM, for that matter.

The ole .270 WIN/150 gr. runs out of steam... when I do.






GR

 

[LoonWulf]

The short action - is an artificial constraint that has ruined many a bolt-gun cartridge

Yeah, but they look funny when you put a short round in a long action, especially a long, long action....its like a little kid wearing their parents slippers, works but it dont look right.

 

[Laphroaig]

Not much love for the WSM's and I don't see why. Close to the traditional Magnum performance from a short action. If you believe in inherent accuracy they might have that too. The 7mm WSM was probably the best of the lot, but didn't succeed.

Say what you will, other than ammo availability at Wally World, the .270 WSM is a sweet cartridge.

 

[CraigC]

Action length is artificial???

 

[BigBlue 94]

Not much love for the WSM's and I don't see why. Close to the traditional Magnum performance from a short action. If you believe in inherent accuracy they might have that too. The 7mm WSM was probably the best of the lot, but didn't succeed.

Say what you will, other than ammo availability at Wally World, the .270 WSM is a sweet cartridge.

My M70 in 270WSM is a laser... Fast, straight, and hard hitting.

The ones that really didnt gain any traction were the WSSM cartridges. The 243 WSSM was a hoot to shoot. Killer varmint rounds.

 

[js8588]

I can't be the only one...I just prefer the full length bolt throw vs a 308 length action. Just feels right.

 

[adcoch1]

I can't be the only one...I just prefer the full length bolt throw vs a 308 length action. Just feels right.

Me too. If not on a bench gun I'd rather have the long action IF it's appropriate for the cartridge. Don't want a 223 on a long action...

 

[daniel craig]

And I’m over here unreasonably crestfallen because for all that they STILL don’t make any in x54r even though FN did at one time.

 

[CraigC]

I can't be the only one...I just prefer the full length bolt throw vs a 308 length action. Just feels right.

So you'd be okay with a .223 in a long action?

 

[Garandimal]

Action length is artificial???

Of course.

How many Semi-Auto rifles are chambered (and sold) in modern .308/WSM cased cartridges compared to bolt actions?

Designing any and all of them around the std. length action - would have made them a better cartridge.




GR