Sportsman's Guide...Whisky, Tango, Foxtrot!

Status
Not open for further replies.
D

DogBonz

Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2006
Messages
2,068
Location
NJ
I have always liked The Sportsman’s Guide. I have done business with them for years, and they have always exceeded my expectations. Their customer service rocks, as any one who has ever had a problem with an item from them can testify. But I tried to order a AR15 sight adjustment tool and was DENIED because I live in NJ. Whisky…Tango…Foxtrot??? It’s a tool for crying out loud. Then I started looking at other AR products, and sure enough, anything that had the phrase AR in it was a no-go. And I mean anything. Mag loading tools, front sights, hand guards… everything!

I will be writing a letter, and enclosing copies of the receipts of everything that I have bought in the last 8 years (I keep receipts for everything, I know I have a problem, and I’m working on it), and I will demand that they ship anything that is legal to own in a state to that state. I don’t think that I’m being unreasonable, do you?

I just remembered something as I was writing this: The Sportsman’s Guide was bought out by another firm earlier this year. I hope this in not indicative of the new management’s policies, or they will be loosing a long time loyal customer, as well as my endorsement to friends and family.

DogBonz…
 
I tried to order targets and they would not ship them to Mass. There are no state laws or regulations regarding targets. None.

I don't buy from Sportsman's Guide anymore.
 
From what I hear S.G. is among the more restrictive, CYA mail-order companies out there. Cheaper Than Dirt is pretty bad too.

I used to buy a lot from C.T.D., then discovered their "no-CA" list included 1 item that is banned from importation here, and about 20 that aren't, so I sent them an email about it, received no response, and haven't done business with them since.
 
Being from Massachusetts, I feel your pain. We can't get any type of knife from them, magazines, clips, firearms parts, some targets, etc etc.

This is what we get for living in a state that has so many stupid laws that the company probably doesn't feel it is worth the hassle to figure out what is legal and what isn't and just blanket denies stuff. Can't really blame the company, after all, they are just trying to get me to move to New Hampshire, or other parts of Free America.

I keep waiting for the email special to come with the title line "The chair is against the wall, the chair is against the wall"
 
Your asking a business to be a lawyer.

The risks to their bottom line are pretty great when it comes to dealing with the oppressive anti-gun governments of states like New Jersey, New York, Illinois and California.

All it takes is for them to accidentally ship one restricted item to a customer in the wrong state and they end up facing criminal charges and fighting a costly court battle.

While I sympathize with those of you stuck in occupied territory, I can still understand why a company would be hesitant to ship anything even remotely risky to an Anti state.


My advice is to move to America because I can't in good conscience ask you to take on the difficult, expensive and likely futile task of changing the governments of your states when I left the mildly oppressive Kansas for the free state of Colorado.
 
Eddiecoyle, I thought (may be wrong, but don't think so) that Mass. prohibited use of a target that depicts a person. I think this covers pictures, cartoons and (maybe) silouettes. I'll look for a link, but I think I'm right. It's on me to prove it, since you can't prove a negative (despite what antigunners say)
 
Think about this for a moment before you missapply your anger.

Why would any mail order/online retailer refuse to sell anything to a customer and miss a chance to make a buck?

Could it be because their legal advisors told them that overeager anti-gun local prosecutors pose a threat to them should anything that might be misconstrued as being possibly a violation of the state's draconian anti-firearms laws even be hinted at as being shipped to your fair state and that it would cost the retailer more money than it was worth and the overeager anti-gun local prosecutor would not be out a personal penny.

In my state I can order anything out of SG's catalogue and off their website and they'll send it to me because they have no fear that some ADA or prosecutor will go after them to make a name for themselves.

If you're going to be angry at anyone then go after the politicians and the anti-gun advocates who are in a postion to abuse their power and cause SG to protect themselves this way.
 
It isn't misapplying anger, they make up arbitrary rules out of an overabundance of caution and many retailers with better legal departments don't. Why give money to the people who can't read the laws?

I read though their catalog one time... exactly one time.. and threw it in the trash... what probably pissed me off the most was that they won't ship certain types of hearing protection to CA. Hearing protection which is totally legal to own and use in the state... and they won't ship blackpowder arms though BP is totally legal... and they won't ship crossbows even though THEY are totally legal... and so on.... they'll never get a dime of my money. Why not? Because they make up stupid rules for no good reason. I'll buy from a retailer (and there are many, Cabelas being just one example) that just follows the law instead of making up restrictions for no reason.
 
Here's the link -

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/140-131.htm

Here's the text (up to where it mentions targets, bolding mine) -

CHAPTER 140. LICENSES


SALE OF FIREARMS


Chapter 140: Section 131. Licenses to carry firearms; Class A and B; conditions and restrictions


Section 131. All licenses to carry firearms shall be designated Class A or Class B, and the issuance and possession of any such license shall be subject to the following conditions and restrictions:

(a) A Class A license shall entitle a holder thereof to purchase, rent, lease, borrow, possess and carry: (i) firearms, including large capacity firearms, and feeding devices and ammunition therefor, for all lawful purposes, subject to such restrictions relative to the possession, use or carrying of firearms as the licensing authority deems proper; and (ii) rifles and shotguns, including large capacity weapons, and feeding devices and ammunition therefor, for all lawful purposes; provided, however, that the licensing authority may impose such restrictions relative to the possession, use or carrying of large capacity rifles and shotguns as it deems proper. A violation of a restriction imposed by the licensing authority under the provisions of this paragraph shall be cause for suspension or revocation and shall, unless otherwise provided, be punished by a fine of not less than $1,000 nor more than $10,000; provided, however, that the provisions of section 10 of chapter 269 shall not apply to such violation.

The colonel of state police may, after an investigation, grant a Class A license to a club or facility with an on-site shooting range or gallery, which club is incorporated under the laws of the commonwealth for the possession, storage and use of large capacity weapons, ammunition therefor and large capacity feeding devices for use with such weapons on the premises of such club; provided, however, that not less than one shareholder of such club shall be qualified and suitable to be issued such license; and provided further, that such large capacity weapons and ammunition feeding devices may be used under such Class A club license only by such members that possess a valid firearm identification card issued under section 129B or a valid Class A or Class B license to carry firearms, or by such other persons that the club permits while under the direct supervision of a certified firearms safety instructor or club member who, in the case of a large capacity firearm, possesses a valid Class A license to carry firearms or, in the case of a large capacity rifle or shotgun, possesses a valid Class A or Class B license to carry firearms. Such club shall not permit shooting at targets that depict human figures, human effigies, human silhouettes or any human images thereof, except by public safety personnel performing in line with their official duties.



Sorry for the long post, but I hate when people say things and can't back it up, or take stuff out of context.
 
certin things I under stand

Like upper receivers, magazines, AP ammo….etc.

But a tool??? That is just stupidity. If they don’t want to learn the laws, that’s fine, I will just take by business elsewhere. It is just a shame, because they were so good about a lot of things. Oh well…



My advice is to move to America
Click to expand...

I would love to. The problem is $. As in, I can't make nearly as much anywhere else.
 
It's also possible that they don't want to ships to those states because by doing business with anyone in those states, they become subject to the jurisdiction of courts in that state. So, they can get hauled in whenever the next round of "sue the seller" lawsuits hits.
 
I think Zundfolge and hso have it right.

That being said, these places are commercial enterprises. If anything can get them to change their policies, it's a change in the calculation of risk/reward. So, don't patronize them - and write and tell them why, just once.

If they can document that the market they forgo is large enough, they might re-think.

As to changing laws in places such as California and Massachusetts, I believe that's going to require a demographic change, especially including a block of folks 'ageing out'. I'm in that age cohort...
 
WHat I do not understand, is if SPG and CTD are outside the anti domain, how could the anti's attack them? If I shipped something that was illegal in MA to MA, then too bad, I am not inside MA. Doesn't this violate the interstate commerce clause?
 
Eddiecoyle, I thought (may be wrong, but don't think so) that Mass. prohibited use of a target that depicts a person. I think this covers pictures, cartoons and (maybe) silouettes. I'll look for a link, but I think I'm right. It's on me to prove it, since you can't prove a negative (despite what antigunners say)
Click to expand...

Tuna, you are wrong.

The restriction you quoted was for a Class A licensed Club, not an individual. My local place sells silhouette targets. Even Walmart used to have them. Go to a gun shop sometime and look around.

tuna said:
Sorry for the long post, but I hate when people say things and can't back it up, or take stuff out of context.
Click to expand...

Yeah, me too.
 
Tuna, you are wrong.

The restriction you quoted was for a Class A licensed Club, not an individual. My local place sells silhouette targets. Even Walmart used to have them. Go to a gun shop sometime and look around.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tuna
Sorry for the long post, but I hate when people say things and can't back it up, or take stuff out of context.


Yeah, me too.
Click to expand...

I also hate folks who are wrong and don't admit it. :eek:

At least I posted the info to prove myself wrong:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Sorry for the misinformation, and I'll shut up now.
 
WHat I do not understand, is if SPG and CTD are outside the anti domain, how could the anti's attack them? If I shipped something that was illegal in MA to MA, then too bad, I am not inside MA. Doesn't this violate the interstate commerce clause?
Click to expand...

Excellent question! The reason why retailers won't ship even legal items to Mass is because of our overzealous, soon to be out of a job AG Tom Reilly. Reilly has all but admitted abusing his regulatory authority but he calls it using "innovative initiatives to make our communities and neighborhoods safer".

He threatens retailers and scares them into agreeing not to ship many items into the state.
 
I always thought that it was funny that some of these places restricted the steel AK mags from being shipped to NY State. NYS has an AW ban that mirrors the old federal one. Pre-ban mags are OK, but all of a sudden, none of the places will ship them anymore. I side with some of the other posters. I think it's that the businesses don't want to be subject to the Bloombooger/Chuckles gun dealer witchhunts. I know it's unfair to the buyers, but put yourself in these company's shoes. I think TAPCO still ships to the more restrictive states.
 
I would love to. The problem is $. As in, I can't make nearly as much anywhere else.
Click to expand...
I'm sure you can make more in NJ than elsewhere ... however it also costs more $ to live there than elsewhere.

You may have to take a pay cut to move to a free state, but you also won't pay as much for housing, fuel, taxes, etc.

You should look into the actual cost of living in various places. http://www.cityrating.com/costofliving.asp
For example (I don't know where in NJ you live so I just picked Trenton completely at random).
If you make: $100,000.00 in Trenton, NJ, You will have to make: $64,937.69 in Colorado Springs, CO

So are you really making more in NJ?

Of course that does leave you with the choice to stay and "fight the power" ... good luck with that :D
 
-----quote--------
It isn't misapplying anger, they make up arbitrary rules out of an overabundance of caution and many retailers with better legal departments don't. Why give money to the people who can't read the laws?
------------------

I'd say it is misdirected anger because the true culprits here are your own state legislators and prosecutors. It is definitely part of their agenda to intimidate vendors out of doing business with residents in your state. Some vendors haven't succumbed YET, which is a good thing, sure. You speak of these other companies having better legal departments. Guess who's paying the salaries of their lawyers, to try and figure out your state laws? You are. Those costs get passed on to the customer one way or another. Personally I don't relish the idea of paying higher prices for things I order, to subsidize a crew of lawyers to figure out the deliberately confusing and draconian laws of your state and others like it.

Get mad at your own evil politicos, dude, and de-elect them. They are the real villians in this story.
 
SG does go a little too far with their CYA tactics, but their a private company and that's their right. Their only cheating themselves, and I have no problem buying the same, perfectly legal item some place else. They won't ship cutlery (mora knife) to CT, and a small, American owned biz sold me the same without problem- and it is perfectly legal in this state.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

A
  • Locked
Just tell me it will be OK!
2
Replies
40
Views
2K
Kodiaz
K
C
  • Locked
Post-Panic, Strange Market Observations
2
Replies
36
Views
2K
breakingcontact
B
WestKentucky
  • Locked
My Election ritual.
2
Replies
26
Views
1K
Robert
Robert
H
  • Locked
AR Builders: Websites on your "Daily Check List" ?
Replies
14
Views
597
taliv
T
T
  • Locked
Gun Store Owner"If it continues like this I will close shop for a month"
2
Replies
40
Views
3K
RetiredUSNChief
RetiredUSNChief
Back
Top