I am a lawyer, though to be honest, I have not handled a straw purchase case. I don't have time to go into a detailed analysis right now, but I believe the poster I quoted above is correct. While the possibility of the ATF going after this type of purchase may be low, it could be possible under current law to prosecute the father, based on the information provided.
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Straw purchase law has me concerned.
- Thread starter rugerdude
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I am a lawyer, though to be honest, I have not handled a straw purchase case. I don't have time to go into a detailed analysis right now, but I believe the poster I quoted above is correct. While the possibility of the ATF going after this type of purchase may be low, it could be possible under current law to prosecute the father, based on the information provided.
Last Xmas
Last Xmas I went to J&G in Prescott (from Phx) to purchase a special select CZ52 in 7.65 Tok for a Xmas present.
I had no idea about 'straw purchase' and made the mistake by telling the older man that it was a Xmas present for a dear friend....
Well he puffed up like a toad and told me it was ILLEGAL and that they could GO OUT OF BUSINESS if he sold me the gun.....
I was disgusted. In this country, I have to keep my mouth shut nowadays. Like China and Russia. It was a Xmas present. Present are not straw purchases....
So, I learned my lesson. Trip to Prescott for nothing. I didn't recognize it anyway....big change from 1980's.
Last Xmas I went to J&G in Prescott (from Phx) to purchase a special select CZ52 in 7.65 Tok for a Xmas present.
I had no idea about 'straw purchase' and made the mistake by telling the older man that it was a Xmas present for a dear friend....
Well he puffed up like a toad and told me it was ILLEGAL and that they could GO OUT OF BUSINESS if he sold me the gun.....
I was disgusted. In this country, I have to keep my mouth shut nowadays. Like China and Russia. It was a Xmas present. Present are not straw purchases....
So, I learned my lesson. Trip to Prescott for nothing. I didn't recognize it anyway....big change from 1980's.
another okie
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"His birthday is actually on the day of the show, so say I give him a few hundred dollars for being a good dad."
Aaargh! Aren't you listening? That's still a straw purchase.
The law looks to the substance of the transaction, not the form. And federal law is enforced with absolutely no sense of equity or fairness or proportion. Ask Martha Stewart and Scooter Libby about perjury prosecutions. Neither was convicted of any substantive crime, just perjury, which is what you are doing (or your father is doing in this case) when he says he is the true purchaser if he is not.
What kind of son would entice his father to commit a federal felony? Can't you wait until you come of age?
Now a straw purchase is only a crime because of the the form 4473. If you buy from a private individual, the straw purchase rules do not apply, though of course the seller must just be selling his own guns and not be buying and selling with the intent of making a profit.
Yes, your father may legally give you a gun, as Sarah Brady gave her son a rifle. But if you give him the money for it, under whatever pretense, you are conspiring to commit perjury and he is committing perjury.
I'm sorry the law is this way, but it's pretty clear, and now that you've discussed your intent on a bulletin board the prosecution would be pretty easy. So don't do it.
Aaargh! Aren't you listening? That's still a straw purchase.
The law looks to the substance of the transaction, not the form. And federal law is enforced with absolutely no sense of equity or fairness or proportion. Ask Martha Stewart and Scooter Libby about perjury prosecutions. Neither was convicted of any substantive crime, just perjury, which is what you are doing (or your father is doing in this case) when he says he is the true purchaser if he is not.
What kind of son would entice his father to commit a federal felony? Can't you wait until you come of age?
Now a straw purchase is only a crime because of the the form 4473. If you buy from a private individual, the straw purchase rules do not apply, though of course the seller must just be selling his own guns and not be buying and selling with the intent of making a profit.
Yes, your father may legally give you a gun, as Sarah Brady gave her son a rifle. But if you give him the money for it, under whatever pretense, you are conspiring to commit perjury and he is committing perjury.
I'm sorry the law is this way, but it's pretty clear, and now that you've discussed your intent on a bulletin board the prosecution would be pretty easy. So don't do it.
joab
Member
Don't worry as soon as you go to buy a gun they will present it to youI'll have to ask my local gun shop about that form.
But here's a copy
http://www.ocshooters.com/Gen/Form-4473/ATF-Form-4473.htm
No, he's buying a gun for himself with money given to him. I may benefit but it is still his gun, as with all of the others that are "mine" in the sense that I shoot them and maybe paid for them, but his in the sense that he is the purchaser, they belong to him, and I can not touch them without his say-so.
Instead of: "here, have this money and buy this gun to transfer possesion over to me" it is "Here, have some money and buy this gun to keep yourself, under your terms, and in your house." His name is on the 4473 along with his adress and he will have the gun to show anyone who wants to trace it to him.
No straw man, as he is the owner and purchaser even if I pick it out and pay for it. It is in effect the legal alternative to the "legal straw man" i.e. the guy isn't barred from owning the gun, but has someone else buy it for him for some reason or another.
Basically, a straw purchase is using someone else's money to buy them a gun.
There is no law saying that you can't use someone else's money to buy yourself a gun.
Instead of: "here, have this money and buy this gun to transfer possesion over to me" it is "Here, have some money and buy this gun to keep yourself, under your terms, and in your house." His name is on the 4473 along with his adress and he will have the gun to show anyone who wants to trace it to him.
No straw man, as he is the owner and purchaser even if I pick it out and pay for it. It is in effect the legal alternative to the "legal straw man" i.e. the guy isn't barred from owning the gun, but has someone else buy it for him for some reason or another.
Basically, a straw purchase is using someone else's money to buy them a gun.
There is no law saying that you can't use someone else's money to buy yourself a gun.
HankB
Member
Somewhere in Washington, a couple of BATmen reading this thread are laughing themselves silly at all the fearful handwringing over firearms transactions between a lad and his dad . . .
No kidding, and because of this gun crime will be lower today than yesterday.Somewhere in Washington, a couple of BATmen reading this thread are laughing themselves silly at all the fearful handwringing over firearms transactions between a lad and his dad . . .
Yeah right,
Wheler44
another okie
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Rugerdude, you are obviously determined to do this no matter what anyone says. But if the reason you give him the money is in the expectation that he will buy a gun that you want, that's a straw purchase. Good luck to you.
ok ive been reading this on and off... you could also argue being a minor, everything you have and earn actually belongs to your guardian... i know not the position that i would have taken at 17 but might make you feel like less of a felon... but then again i dont know many people that dont break the law to at least some degree... its all about justification...
btw my shift key is broken, i know im not capitalizing or punctuating things properly. deal with it you anal english majors
-tsi
btw my shift key is broken, i know im not capitalizing or punctuating things properly. deal with it you anal english majors
-tsi
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