Suppose a nuclear device is detontated in Manhattan...

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cratz2,

Some interesting suppositions there. Scary, but interesting. I agree with the most of the point you're making but I don't buy 'ALL muslims against us' thing.

There are many sects of Islam (just like in Christianity) and they disagree and/or fight amonst themselves lots. I live in NYC and we have quite a few muslims here and I have never felt threatened by one of them. They are kind, polite folk just trying to cut a living here and wanting to be left alone. The NYCer muslims have never, even jokingly, or sacrastically spoken ill of this country before OR after 9/11. Not once in 6 years I've been here.

If you ask them, they are disgusted by the terrorist attacks and feel that the fundamentalists are bending the Koran to bad ends and choice-picking the worst/most questionable phrases to fuel their cause. They live in complete harmony with the multitute of Jews around them and often the hassitic Jews can be found together with the Middle-Eastern folk in the same neighborhood. Go figure.

Everyone else has, from things like 'shoot the prez., to the gov. is evil-let's blow 'em up!' kind of stuff. And they didn't sound like they were kidding. Go figure. Human nature is a strange animal...

-paco
 
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Ever wonder what all those black holes out in the Universe really are? The remains of distant planets whose inhabitants figured out, long ago, that which eluded geniuses like Mach, Lorentz, Einstein and Schrödinger: a Grand Unified Theory. The Holy Grail of Physics. They abused their knowledge, and the resulting implosion sucked in all the surrounding matter for light years.

:uhoh:

Fiction? Perhaps. Of course you know that it's only a matter of time before someone figures out how to pack a 5 kiloton bomb in a ballpoint pen. God help us when that happens.
 
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Paco,

I think you can draw this conclusion from your experience: Extremists, of any stripe, in comparatively small numbers, are manageable within a pluralistic society. It's when they reach critical mass the trouble begins.
 
Longeyes,

See, it's people like you that take the fun outta this forum! It's no fun getting right to the point- ya' gotta drag it out a bit for drama and effect:D .

-Thanks for stealing my thunder! Next time you pontificate on something for five pages, I'm gonna to the same to you:evil:

Longeyes:
This is want I feel:kjhfdgdsbvhsdhbhvchjhjgjhjhdsgssgfhdgsfjashgfhgdshfhsgfvgsdvgshdghvshaghcvgshdggajgdsgfvsgjdfhgsfdhsaghfvgshadgjgsdhfhsaghfgshdgahfgJSADGHDSVJHRIFHDLHFJKGDHSGDSHJGHJGJHgjhgdjsgjagfjkgbadfhg!!!

Paco:
-What Longeyes meant to say was this: jdfgsfd Ha!

p.s. Longeyes, do you remember that Bugs Bunny cartoon when they were on a tropical island trying to translate what the native Bugs said to them? Bugs would grunt once and it translated into a PARAGRAPH of info. He'd then go on for a few minutes grunting and wheezing and that translated to things like: Yes, No, Thank you! Too Funny!

-paco
 
Longeyes,

Me confused... You're saying you have no humor? Man, in these crazy days, it's the lifejacket in an ocean of crap. Peace.

-paco
 
No, I just felt like quoting Hamlet.

Humor is the sign of our humanity, no doubt about that. It's just that when I see Japanese hostages being threatened with being burned alive, I get a little grim around the gills.
 
Some insurgents have grabbed some Japanese civilians in Iraq, are threatening to burn them alive if the Japanese don't get out of their country.

My response? I think it's time for the good Muslims to show there's stuff you don't do. A few guys with AKs can be overcome.
 
...dam shame...

-Sorry moderators for being off-topic but that is purty disturbing. Man 'o man: what can the Japanese gov. do? Give in? Let them die? Try to hunt them down? Not good.

Longeyes,
Might wanna start a thread so folks can get the skinny and get their feelings off their chest. Just an idea. Peace.

-p
 
There are many sects of Islam (just like in Christianity) and they disagree and/or fight amonst themselves lots
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I have yet to see a Christian strap explosives to a child and send him forth to kill the "enemy".

Again, there is NO MORAL EQUIVALENCE between radical Islam and Christianity.
 
I have yet to see a Christian strap explosives to a child and send him forth to kill the "enemy".
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Me too, but I once saw an Opus Dei prelate act as though he might explode when Mehmet Ali Agca tried to assassinate the Pope.

:evil:
 
I just love moral equivelency arguments. Sounds profound but in reality is empty.
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Actually, I think it's the other way around. Theoretically, we could argue till the cows come home. But in reality, the proof is in the pudding, or shall we say, the plastic explosives.
 
OY!!!!

Why is it some people don't understand?

The "moral equivalency" arguement IS empty: almost every religion has it's lunatic fringe, that will do evil/stupid/barbaric things in the name of their "faith". Think Christinity is immune? Think again: Jonestown was just as much a perversion of Christianity as Al Qaida is a perversion of Islam. And how many Christian Scientists have let their children die for lack of medical care, because it's "against their faith"...

Please guys... let's actually stick to the High Road: leave the attacks against differing religions out of it...
 
The "moral equivalency" arguement IS empty: almost every religion has it's lunatic fringe, that will do evil/stupid/barbaric things in the name of their "faith". Think Christinity is immune? Think again: Jonestown was just as much a perversion of Christianity as Al Qaida is a perversion of Islam. And how many Christian Scientists have let their children die for lack of medical care, because it's "against their faith"...
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The comparison was with children being wired with explosives. When was the last Christian child wired with explosives sent to kill women and children?

Granted, Christians are not immune to evil/stupid/barbaric things. But the specific one mentioned does not seem to be one of them.
 
Michigander:

So... in order to be "morally equivalent", you have to have the same exact action? A Christian Scientist letting their child die because "it's God's Will" is "morally superior" to a Moslem having their child die as a bomb "for God's Will"? Granted, you have a somewhat higher level of intent on the Islamic side...

And can you say that Jonestown wasn't JUST as "morally corrupt" as the Islamic suicide bombers are? And, before you say anything about Jim Jones being a cult leader: he was preaching a twisted version of Christianity. The same way that radical Moslems are preaching a twisted version of Islam...

Jihad IS a concept in Islam, and it DOES mean "Holy War". However, there are rules: no non-combatants can be harmed. No women or children. No buildings can be damaged. Penalty for breaking these rules? Quick trip to a warmer clime. If you want, I'll dig out my copy of the Qu'Ran, and start quoting verses...


And SOMEONE please explain why the Wiccan has to be defending Islam to the Christians? ;)
 
So... in order to be "morally equivalent", you have to have the same exact action? A Christian Scientist letting their child die because "it's God's Will" is "morally superior" to a Moslem having their child die as a bomb "for God's Will"? Granted, you have a somewhat higher level of intent on the Islamic side...
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In one case a parent allows their child to die. In another a parent sends their child to die and kill as many other men, women and children as they can. Yes, there is a significant difference in my book.

And can you say that Jonestown wasn't JUST as "morally corrupt" as the Islamic suicide bombers are? And, before you say anything about Jim Jones being a cult leader: he was preaching a twisted version of Christianity. The same way that radical Moslems are preaching a twisted version of Islam...
Click to expand...

A nut is a nut is a nut. I will not disagree with you there. But there are differences still when dealing with Jim Jones. He duped his followers into drinking his kool-aid. If this is the case, then he is a mass murderer, not a terrorist. He wasn't trying to acheive political position (or else he wouldn't have killed himself and his followers). If the followers participated in full knowledge, then it was a mass suicide. Again, this is still different than killing other people who are not wanting to die.

Jihad IS a concept in Islam, and it DOES mean "Holy War". However, there are rules: no non-combatants can be harmed. No women or children. No buildings can be damaged. Penalty for breaking these rules? Quick trip to a warmer clime. If you want, I'll dig out my copy of the Qu'Ran, and start quoting verses...
Click to expand...

And what is your point here? That they can break their own rules just as Christians can?

Being morally bankrupt has many faces. If someone is morally bankrupt, I would hope they are of the Christian variety rather than the Islamic variety, thank you very much.
 
The muslim fantatics who are our mortal enemies only care about one thing, in the end. They don't care if we nuke Cairo or Teheran or Damascus: they would welcome more "martyrs" for allah.

They only care about their holy sites, and above all of them, the site of the black meteorite chunk called the kaaba stone, which is the radiating heart of allah's presence on earth. The black moon god rock they pray to 5X a day. The one they make the haj to see once a lifetime if possible.

Mecca After Muslims Terrorists Destroy NYC

METEOR.jpg
 
At some point, those Americans who want to defend radical Islam may be viewed as allied with the enemy, and not simply exercising their First Amendment rights in the U.S. No threat, just fact. If we continue to see this war develop between radical Islamists and the U.S., with more severe attacks, Americans will have much less patience for those wanting to defend the enemy.

Using moral equivalency arguments to equate radical Islamists with fundamental Christians is poor logic on every level, IMHO.

Note, I said radical Islam / Islamists, not all Muslims. Big difference.

Regards from TX
 
Jeff Thomas:

I recognize what you're saying. And actually, my first thought on dealing with the problem was "nuke one city, and let them know the next one's aimed at Mecca". However, I'm not sure that would help us all THAT much: either the fear that we WOULD do what we say would make every Moslem in the world toe the line, or we would end up alienating the "true" Moslems to get at the radicals (which, like radicals in any religion, are mostly just using the name and trappings).

Part of the reason I get worked up when I hear people dising a religion is that I've dealt with it on a VERY personal level, and still do QUITE frequently (everything from just being told "you're worshipping demons and going to He77" to offers of burning at the stake). Makes me a bit jumpy when there seem to be people talking about a religion with wrong info. Sorry if I've stepped on any toes with that...

Michigander:

In one case a parent allows their child to die. In another a parent sends their child to die and kill as many other men, women and children as they can. Yes, there is a significant difference in my book.
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It's only different by degree. What I see here is Moslem parents sacrificing their child for a precieved "greater good"... and the Cristians doing the same. Maybe it's just a difference of perception...

A nut is a nut is a nut. I will not disagree with you there. But there are differences still when dealing with Jim Jones. He duped his followers into drinking his kool-aid. If this is the case, then he is a mass murderer, not a terrorist. He wasn't trying to acheive political position (or else he wouldn't have killed himself and his followers). If the followers participated in full knowledge, then it was a mass suicide. Again, this is still different than killing other people who are not wanting to die.
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My point there is that there are groups in ANY religion (ok... maybe not the Budhists) that preach a twisted version of their "parent" faith. And I don't see mainstream Christians cracking down on their radicals any more than I see moderate Moslems doing the same. And it's something that BOTH need to do...
 
Hopefully what would happen is it would allow us to stop calling an enemy terrorist a islamic extremist or a Islamafascist or whatever. We could say "we will hunt down and kill these men!" and really do it without some hippy yelling about this terrorists rights etc.

Also if there is a single country to attack with Nukes I would vote 1.5 MT 40,000 ft AGL- Al-Murabba Palace, Riyadh
We could then drill through the glass with little concern of radiation.

Lets face it suitcase nukes cost money. So do flying lessons. Alot of that money came from S.A.

9/11 hyjackers - Came from S.A.

Too coincidences.
 
Hmmmm....

"We're just gonna use it for a staging area for the invasion of Saudi Arabia!!!"

Maybe not a half-bad idea.

If we can get Iraq into the "freedom" camp and set up a permanent base there, it might have a taming effect on some folks.

This whole business with Isslamic terrorists does remind me of a coffee hour or three that I spent sitting around a table in a SAC alert shack jabbering with a wise old Lt. Colonel. And we had the coffee break perfected. A week at a time while waiting for the call that never came, thank God. Anyway, the old Col said that the "Soviet Union is not a problem. They aren't going to whack us anymore than we are going to whack them. What we have to worry about is Muslims." Or words to that effect. I remember he talked about Muslims and not extremeists not that that means anything. Just how extreme some of these people could be wasn't even dreamed of at the time.

I thought he was talking about a couple of centuries in the future. Times sure flies.

A holy war between them and us would go on forever. I damn sure am not aching to get that started if it hasn't started already.

People up the thread have talked about Christian extremeists. What would other Christians say if we did have a suicide bomber or two emerge from, say, a particular Catholic or Baptist church? Would the rest of us be as publicly quiet as I seem to hear the rest of the Islam being quiet about the extremeists in their camp?

rr
 
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