Taurus Judge

[suemarkp]

Penetration has more to do with weight than velocity. Energy goes up with velocity squared. Which do you think is more effective -- your 500 ft-lb 327 load, or a 350 ft-lb 45 ACP? At best, I would say they are equal. At worst (e.g. bullet failure to expand), I'd give the advantage to the 45 ACP which has a larger energy disadvantage compared to the 327.

I'd much rather have the 327 though if I had to shoot further than 100 yds.

 

[nonseven]

I wasn't debating the 45acp here. The 327 is a proven penetrator, with the 115 grain load. But how about an even lighter 70 grain or so lead ball at 750 fps from the judge?

But as far as weight being more important than velocity for penetration - not true. They are equally important and both of them have to be in a relevant range for penetration to occur. And of course the shape and physical properties of the projectile matter greatly.

 

[mgkdrgn]

I want to be able to kill one at 15 ft at least. Especially without my glasses. LOL. Seems like the Judge would do that better then shot shell in .357.

oh yes, oh my yes.

I actually -own- a judge, and it will make an excellent snake gun.

 

[Guillermo]

I actually -own- a judge,

must be nice

I own a city councilman, but not a judge

JK

 

[Critical J]

HERE IS YOUR ANSWER:

it's a pretty penny by comparisson, but get you a Bond Arms Snake Slayer. Yes, it's a derringer so you only get 2 shots but you're only killing snakes with it anyway! However, as for snakes of the bipedal variety, have your Slayer chambered in .410, just like The Judge, and load it with PDX1s (3 metal slugs and 12 defensive pellets per shot) my wife carries that precise CCW layout every day and I'm still jealous even though I carry a 6-shooter!

YOU'RE WELCOME!

 

[Critical J]

P.S.

I love the concept of The Judge and absolutely want one (someday) but it keeps getting pushed back because there's simply more important guns out there for me to own, that in ans of itself says something about this revolver. However, when considering the pros and cons of Mr. Judge, remember not to compare it to all other handguns because it's kind of in a class all its own:
* too big to be a convenient CCW
* too inaccurate for target shooting/hunting
* too few shots for a modern gunfight (which will never happen)
* too dang lame to be worth putting-up againsy a real shotgun

Q) so, that said, what's it even good for?!
A) exactly what they advertise it for and nothing else...

The Judge is no marketing gimmick, they actually did put real boafide R&D into this firearm which is thereal reason it's such a good seller. I mean honestly, don't we all know more people who own a Judge
because they've already got most everything else they need, but also liked what The Judge had to offer, than suckers who actually got realed-in by sales padder and mistakenly believed The Judge to be some "wonder gun", honestly? NO! Folks do their research when buying guns and cars and the like, and folk that own a Judge do so because see a practical application for it in their lives...

 

[Guns and more]

If you like the Judge, but think it's too big (I do) take a look at the Bond Snakeslayer.
A very solid large derringer with two rounds of .410
I got one because I wanted a dedicated bedside gun.

 

[nonseven]

I carried a Bond 410/45 a few times with a 3" barrel. Then I chrono'd the Federal 000 buck load and it didn't even break 600 fps. The PDX1 round does about the same. I then gave up the idea of 410 shells in the Bond for defense from 2 legged critters. Not enough velocity for reliable penetration. If you must carry the bond for that reason, use a 45 colt personal defense load and save the shotshells for snakes.

 

[Guns and more]

Not enough velocity for reliable penetration.

I read the post of a fellow who defended his life with a Bond using buckshot in a carjacking.
The .410 did just fine.

The survivor was "Chaplin Tom" and his story was well written and compelling.

(I bought the 4 1/4" barrel, it's not what I'd use for carry because it's heavy.)

 

[TheEasy1]

Where is this message? I would love to read his story. Can you post it or message me with the Link? Thanks!

 

[Guns and more]

Where is this message? I would love to read his story.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=237382&highlight=Bond&page=2

Scroll down to post #39. I respect his honesty.

 

[Paladin7]

I looked at the Judge as well and here is what I think...

I don't trust Taurus reliability or build quality so a few strikes there.

They are big and heavy, another strike for me.

And ballistics just aren't that impressive. Not sure if someone already gave you this link but here it is ... http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm

There are newer personal defense loads in .410 that were made for the Judge that might be worth checking out as well before you make a decision.

For me, I decided to pass as I already have a S&W 696 that is my woods gun that can handle snake shot and anything else for that matter.

 

[suemarkp]

I wasn't debating the 45acp here. The 327 is a proven penetrator, with the 115 grain load. But how about an even lighter 70 grain or so lead ball at 750 fps from the judge?

But as far as weight being more important than velocity for penetration - not true. They are equally important and both of them have to be in a relevant range for penetration to occur. And of course the shape and physical properties of the projectile matter greatly.

A 327 spitzer seems about as relevant to a 35 ball as to 45 ACP. A 71gr 32 ACP ball seems to have sufficient penetration in people. Penetration is the key thing for the Judge load -- if you want short range penetration only, round balls are a good way to go. From all accounts, it seems like 000 buckshot has ample penetration for humans. Although you could say at what range, it seems to have enough penetration in gel down to about 600 - 650 fps. Hard balls are important, as soft ones may deform and limit penetration.

I disagree about velocity and weight being equally important for penetration. Obviously, there is a velocity floor required for penetration to occur. From a physics point of view, either mass or velocity should provide equally for penetration after that. But velocity is shed and mass is not. Anyone who hunts knows that bullets that are heavy for their caliber penetrate better than the lighter ones. That is true even for hard cast ones that don't expand.

 

[nonseven]

My argument is that weight and penetration both have to be at correct values for penetration to occur. Within a relevant range, one can certainly be more important than the other. But then both have to be in a certain range or penetration does not occur.

You can throw a 185gr 45 slug at me with your arm, and if it does not penetrate, will throwing a 300 grain slug at me solve the problem?

Of course the same argument can be made about velocitity. If I have a 15gr .22 cal slug that does not penetrate a steel plate at 1000 fps, will increasing the veloicty to 1500 fps do it? Probably not.

 

[toolanddiemv]

one of the loads for the judge is 2-1/2 with 3 metal disks and 12 bee bees sounds cool i got one recently 3 in cylinder 4 in barrel stainless cant wait to go try it out also got all the stuff to reload 45 LC

 

[sxcamaro05]

I am at a cross roads with the Judge. My Uncle has one and the 410 part is blah, and the 45lc is very nice. Bulky, heavy, but has a nice feel. I could see this firearm becoming more of a "well I have a..." piece. I suppose it does its job but I believe it is way over hyped.

 

[oldfool]

you could have mine for FREE
(if I had one)
worst of both worlds

but shotgun shells always were real good snake killers, especially when fired from... shotguns
(and never once had a barrel fall off any of my shotguns when fired, not even the cheapo single shots, just lucky, I guess)

PS
if you wait just a little bit longer, maybe Ruger will come out with an LCR version in 45/410, but probably only after the 44mag version

 

[sansone]

I really do not see why people like the "judge" other than as a novelty gun.. sorry, flame me now

 

[Nushif]

Dunno about the effectiveness on snakes, but I got to demolish a pumpkin with one the other day. And it was a freakin' BLAST.
A while ago my wife beat into me that not all my guns have to fill a freakin' tactical niche to be of merit. At the end of the day I like to think that most of us shoot because it's fun and as a by-product we can defend ourselves better than most. But hey, maybe that's just my reasons. I know I seem to enjoy my guns a lot more than most. And about two thirds of my collection are ridiculous pieces that I picked up because they made me laugh when I shot them.