Teetering Tensions on the Mexico Border

[Sindawe]

How about going out to gather up the remains of the ones killed by mines and administer the coup de grace to the ones who were only maimed?

Nope. Leave 'em to rot and bleach in the sun as a warning to those who follow. We have legal means of immigration that people all over the world use all the time.

Here's an idea off the cuff for the huge influx of people trying to escape poverty and oppression in the lands of their birth. The U.S. takes the billions we spend in routine foreign aid and put it into seed money for colonies on the moon and beyond. Illegals get a ride to the colonies and work 5 years to pay their freight. U.S. citizens and legal immigrants get a free ride. I'm sure the U.N. will object, something about the moon being the heritage of all humanity. Of course, the U.N. has real military to enforce their edicts, much less a space force.

 

[HankB]

If you believe so strongly that illegal aliens are enough of a threat that they should be shot, why aren't you shooting them?

Maybe because he knows that OUR government will side with the illegal aliens using - if necessary - deadly force to protect the illegals. Remember, in today's warped PC climate, the interests of foreign criminals trump the interests of U.S. citizens.

 

[longeyes]

I don't know and neither do you. What percentage dies now? What is the magical percentage at which the Mexicanos will decide it is better to stay in Mexico? Would you personally be willing to shoot them? How about going out to gather up the remains of the ones killed by mines and administer the coup de grace to the ones who were only maimed?

You could apply this same rationale to our War on Radical Islam. Why muss and fuss when you can just do nothing and hope it all turns out for the best? The problem with being "morally enlightened" is not being enlightened ENOUGH: when you begin to recognize that there are longer-term consequences--grave ones--to turning the other cheek the decision to take aggressive action will be if not easier at least more realistic. No, it's not easy and it's not pretty, but is the answer just watching the erosion proceed?

Multicultural nations, of the kind we now seem so eager to build, exist by virtue of an iron hand keeping warring factions under control. That doesn't sound like the American Republic to me, but it certainly sounds like the benign tyranny that the one-worlders are eagerly laying down, brick by brick.

 

[Joe Demko]

Just answer my question, please. Are you willing to shoot them? If so, why aren't you shooting them? If it is necessary to shoot Iraqis, since you decided to bring them up, why aren't you over there shooting them?

This whole machismo "shoot'em all" solution smells like a cop out. Offering a hypermachofantasyland solution that you know is NEVER going to be adopted is the same as offering no solution. If we're going to do stuff like that, then I say the solution to our border problems is genetically-engineered alligator/greyhound crossbreeds with rocket launchers on their backs.

 

[duckslayer]

genetically-engineered alligator/greyhound crossbreeds with rocket launchers on their backs

And sharks with freakin' laser beams attached to their heads!!

Joe, what solutions do you suggest, aside from genetically mutated animals?

 

[jnojr]

The problem with the border is that so many Mexicans and Central Americans want to come to the US. No, strike that... they're desperate to come here. The poverty in most of their country is unimaginable. Making $100 a week picking strawberries can feed their entire families at home. When faced with that kind of motivation, migrant workers are going to find a way to come across the border, no matter what is done to stop them. The terrorism angle is a huge problem, no because our borders aren't a giant Berlin Wall, but because there's already so much illegal border crossing, the terrorists can just "melt into" the flow.

There are only two things that will stop illegals from coming... A) make things better in their own country, so they have no incentive to leave; or B) when things become so bad here, there's no incentive to come. So, if they're going to come anyway, we might as well have a "guest worker" program... we should know who they are, have pics / fingerprints, know where they're going and what they're doing, make sure they're living in decent conditions, and make sure they're paying their taxes. With a legal, up-front way to cross the border, it would become orders of magnitude more difficult for terrorists to cross or sneak weapons in with them. The "background noise" would be gone.

This is too much like the war on drugs... there's a demand to cross the border, just as there's a demand for drugs. Attacking supply only drives the demand underground and increases the costs and profit margins.

 

[CannibalCrowley]

I don't know and neither do you.

It'd be a smaller amount than those who currently cross our border.

What percentage dies now?

They're still coming in droves, so apparently not nearly enough.

What is the magical percentage at which the Mexicanos will decide it is better to stay in Mexico?

I don't know, let's experiment and find out. I'm pretty sure that 90-100% would work quite well.

Would you personally be willing to shoot them?

Sure, I'd even bring my own ammo. In fact, we could charge a fee and let people stand on the wall with the border agents for the night. Just imagine the cashflow, two birds with one stone.

How about going out to gather up the remains of the ones killed by mines and administer the coup de grace to the ones who were only maimed?

Why do that? They chose to enter a minefield, let them find their own way out. Of course if the screaming starts to bug those in the towers, they can always put them out of their misery from afar, there's no reason to go down there.

 

[longeyes]

Joe D.

The irony is this: the more you rule out the worst, the more you make it inevitable.

Here in California the leftists would like to "reform" Prop. XIII. What this is all about is grabbing more money from the tax-paying class to fund an ever-growing black hole of "education" expenses that now go primarily to illegal aliens and their children. Kill Prop. XIII and you would drive many current homeowners from their homes by hugely raising their property tax levies. There's a word for this enlightened and progressive policy: expropriation. Would that be grounds for overt armed resistance? I don't know, Joe, you tell me.

 

[Sindawe]

A Modest Proposal

Well, it seems that some don't like the idea of serious action to halt the flow of illegals, and others don't like the idea of "guest worker", and others don't like the idea of cutting off entitlement benefits for illegals. jnojr has a point about folks wanting, desperate, dying to come here since conditions are so bad at home, and it will not stop until conditions are good enough that they have no incentive to leave.

So here is another idea. Lets bring "Democracy" to our southern neighbors, invade with military force, execute a regime change and assimilate them into the Union. No need to travel half way around the world for our wars, in lands who's primary resource is sand and oil. LOTS of fine picking closer to home.

 

[longeyes]

guest worker program

Right. Let's have a guest worker program for, say, 50 million Mexicans. After all, they're poor and we can do nothing to stop them from coming--isn't that what I'm hearing?

But why stop with Mexicans? If we need cheap labor, why not import another billion or two good-hearted moms and dads who just want to come here to work? They'll be grateful to make $25 a day, right? And it's really about "family values"--didn't our President tell us that? And he wouldn't mislead us, would he?

The problem is political, social, and cultural integrity. I've said it before, I'll say it again: America is not just an ongoing job opportunity. When we come to believe that America is about nothing but making a buck, we will have no one to blame but ourselves for what develops.

What we are seeing here, folks, is a massive swapping-out of the present American working population for a whole new cast. Nothing less. That's where it's going, like it or not.

 

[308win]

You just don't get it! :banghead:

Most business people are politically conservative, yet most of the anti-illegal folks are conservative in their political views.

There is nothing conservative about big business (including big agriculture); authoritarian - yes, conservative - NO!

The Republican Party just happened to be the party easiest for the monied & entitled (in their minds) interests to hijack. This country will go the way of previous great powers unless the middle class - instead of wasting energy on issues like prolife/prochoice, school vouchers, sanctity of marriage, blah, blah, blah - wakes up and takes it back.

 

[longeyes]

Lets bring "Democracy" to our southern neighbors, invade with military force, execute a regime change and assimilate them into the Union. No need to travel half way around the world for our wars, in lands who's primary resource is sand and oil. LOTS of fine picking closer to home.

That would mean severing the dynastic links between the Mexican oligarchs and ours. Way too profitable for both camps. Same reason we don't drop the "war on drugs." Let's not forget that a lot of early American fortunes were built on, gasp, opium-running that was later laundered into the new and great banks of the American eastern seaboard. Some **** never changes.

And what's the point of liberating Mexicans? So our corporations will have to pay a comparable wage? That's not the agenda. The agenda is cheap and docile.

Illegal immigration will stop when Mexicans begin taking away the investment banking and bond trading jobs on Wall St. that pay a million bucks a year for looking good in a bowtie and a blazer.

 

[wingman]

Illegal immigration will stop when Mexicans begin taking away the investment banking and bond trading jobs on Wall St. that pay a million bucks a year for looking good in a bowtie and a blazer.

Agreed!!!

I would like to make clear I do not blame "most" illegals for coming however
we are seeing more then prior years with criminal records. The blame lies
with our government and Mexico. I somewhat view illegal traffic with the
slave trade of years past now it's in a more PC way and the only winners
in this mess and it is a mess is the rich in both countries. It must stop at
some point if we are to maintain our standard of living. We need controlled,
limited immigration and it needs to happen now before the problem cannot
be fixed.

 

[Lennyjoe]

If a foreigner attempts to illegally cross a border, isn't any American citizen justified in using necessary force to prevent the breach of sovereignty

Thats the exact question I asked a Border Patrol officer last year while I was out hunting. I ran into a group of illegals and did not attempt to detain them. I called the Border patrol on my cell, gave them the coordinates from my GPS and waited in the distance for them to come.

They came and took the group for processing. While they were there I asked if I would of gotten in trouble had I taken other measures to stop them such as by gunpoint.

His response is that I would of been arrested as well. Because they did not do anything to warrant my using a weapon for detention it would be concidered aggrevated assault or something to that effect.

I see illegals all the time out in the desert. We quail and dove hunt no more than 4 miles from the border. The desert is littered with debrie from them coming North. Trails with fresh tracks, Pedialite bottles, clothes and backpacks, canned foods and other water jugs are everywhere out here. I even found abandoned vehicles in the middle of nowhere on 3 seperate occasions this year alone while scouting for deer. The "coyotes" (smugglers) will take the group North to the drop off point, steal a vehicle and drive back to the border in the desert and leave it behind.

I Even had one guy come up to me and ask me to call the Border Patrol cause he had enough. Wanted to go back to Nogales cause he was cold, tired and hungry. So I did.

Theres been alot of occasion when our aircraft couldnt drop bombs or shoot the gun because of illegals on the range. Ironic isnt it.

Anyone needing a first hand account of whats going on can give me a call and I'll take them out there and show them where they are coming thru.

 

[woofe]

Re: The AZ/Mexican border situation

For those of you who want to help check out the following: http://minutemanproject.com/

 

[WilderBill]

Mr. Demko,
I think Art could tell you more about this than I, but most folks in Texas have guns. More than a few are fed up with this situation. Some do, in fact, act on their own.
I am in the other end of Texas from the border, but from talking to people from there, I get the impression that besides guns, a lot of folks living directly on the border also own backhoes.
There are places where a shot in the night doesn't cause any alarm among the sheeple. Hell, there might not even be any one close enough to hear it!
What I am getting at, is that there are places now, where crossing the border could be the very last mistake they make. It's just that no one wants to advertise what they are doing.
I believe that if this situation continues, there will be more and more that decide to do what our all knowing .gov is failing to do. That is, protect our borders and sovereignty.
As has been noted already, in Texas almost anything in the night is cause to light 'em up.

 

[Waitone]

We are a society that believes nothing unless we have pictures. All the text and prose in the world will not have the impact of a few good pictures. Somalia was a classic example.

That being true, I am mystified as to the absence of photographs of the wake of criminal immigration. Why is it we can put Jerry Rivers in a Hummer in Ashcanistan with night goggles and night vision video tape, yet for some reason we can't do the same thing on the US border. At a minimum I'd expect FOX to air such footage. Perhaps a documentary. No, we get nothing. We are looking at the single most divisive issue in America today. We are experiencing institutional lawlessness by corporations and government at all levels. But no seems interested.

What will it take to draw attention to what is really a battlefield? Explosions, death, destruction, and mayhem. Unfortunately a lot of people will have to die in a spectacular manner before the elites conclude the taxpaying class takes issue with their attempts to destroy our society.

I am willing to predict that Bush could end up losing his entire agenda over the next 2 years over this one issue.

 

[Sindawe]

What will it take to draw attention to what is really a battlefield?

Perhaps large numbers of the chilren of the rich and powerfull of this country contracting mutli-drug resistant TB is what it will take, since its apparent that the rise of such among us peasants is not their concern.

 

[LadySmith]

I am mystified as to the absence of photographs of the wake of criminal immigration. Why is it we can put Jerry Rivers in a Hummer in Ashcanistan with night goggles and night vision video tape, yet for some reason we can't do the same thing on the US border.

Can we unplug & send them all of the cameras they've installed on our city streets ostensibly to "catch people running red lights"?
You people have got to stop coming up with hot topics so I can go to bed.

 

[longeyes]

That being true, I am mystified as to the absence of photographs of the wake of criminal immigration. Why is it we can put Jerry Rivers in a Hummer in Ashcanistan with night goggles and night vision video tape, yet for some reason we can't do the same thing on the US border. At a minimum I'd expect FOX to air such footage. Perhaps a documentary. No, we get nothing. We are looking at the single most divisive issue in America today. We are experiencing institutional lawlessness by corporations and government at all levels. But no seems interested.

We are shown, by official media (and that includes the corporations that further The Agenda), what they want us to see. No more, no less. We can see the dead in SE Asia, but we cannot see the dead in the rubble of 9/11 or the beheaded in Iraq. No need to make the serfs uneasy. If the media began to take up this story, way too many Americans would start to get upset, and that would, well, get in the way of the program.

Bush is going to do his best to brass it out. He will keep repeating we are a compassionate people and it's the right thing to do until we are sick of him. This is too bad, because he is on the right track with a number of things he wants to do. Unfortunately, all those things won't matter if we destroy the middle class and plunder American's core values.

 

[dustind]

Beren: You can not morally shoot them because our government and many citizens invite them in with open arms. Illegal immigration is only illegal on the surface.

Art Eatman: As to over crowding, isn't most of the country uninhabited? You can always move away from cities or suburbia.

The main problem I see with this issue is the free hand outs and poor self defense laws.

Too bad someone beat me to the sharks (or atleast ill tempered sea bass) with frickin' "lazer" beams on their heads.

 

[Standing Wolf]

The nation has borders? I thought that was a book shop.

 

[Joe Demko]

Doods! I just picked up my little girl for visitation and she has a bad cold, so I'm busy nursing her. If I don't find time to reply to your ill-considered posts ( ) for 24 hours or so, you shouldn't miscronstrue that as surrender on my part!

 

[Art Eatman]

dustind, look on a map of Texas. Terlingua is at the west edge of Big Bend National Park. Brewster County is the size of Delaware, but has about 9,500 people.

I did the best I could, okay? Trouble is, people keep moving in, and they're putting houses in areas where I used to go coyote hunting!

Be that as it may, I do travel some. I once liked to go visit friends in my old home town of Austintatious. No mas! Rush hour seems like an all-day event. Folks seem to be in a helluva hurry to go nowhere and do nothing, and that results in 15 mph in a 60 mph zone. Restaurants are crowded...

Same sort of thing in every city that I used to like to visit, and the connecting highways between them are being widened to handle the traffic load.

IMO, this country was a lot more fun some 100 million people ago.

And so it goes: "Progress".

Art

 

[Lennyjoe]

We are a society that believes nothing unless we have pictures

Thats a good idea. Next time i'm out I will take the camera and post some pics of what I see day in and day out.

Closest I've been to the actual border while out in the wilderness is .5 miles from what my GPS said. The closer I got the more trash and abandoned vehicles I seen. I might actually go to the "no bull" border next time.

When I do though, I am gonna leave the shotgun in the truck, keep the 10MM on my side and take the AR-15 with some extra mags.