Texas CHL Holder Killed - Unable to Draw in Time

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RioShooter

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Beware Cash Sale With Strangers

Axtell man fatally shot, lured by used-car ad

Tuesday, June 05, 2007

By Kathleen Thurber

Tribune-Herald staff writer

Police say an Axtell man was fatally shot during a robbery after he was lured to Dallas by an ad for a used car.

Police in Dallas still were looking for suspects late Monday in the fatal shooting of 21-year old Christian Marton, who was shot in the chest about 10:15 p.m. Sunday at an apartment complex in the 8900 block of Vantage Point Street in northeast Dallas, said Dallas Senior Cpl. Janice Crowther. Marton was trying to buy a car he had seen advertised online, Crowther said.

Marton had negotiated the price of the car through phone calls, Dallas Sgt. Larry Lewis said.

Marton’s aunt, Luci Lupu, said he and the seller had settled on a price of $2,100 when they talked Thursday, and the man told Marton to bring cash to a Dallas fast-food restaurant Sunday to buy the car. When Marton arrived, he was told to go to an apartment complex to buy the car, where he was shot.

“We just believe he was probably lured to that particular street,” Lewis said.

Marton, a 2004 Axtell High School graduate, had driven with his girlfriend in his Chevrolet Tahoe with a trailer attached so he could pick up the car. His girlfriend was in the Tahoe at the time of the shooting but was not injured, Lupu said.

Marton was taken to Baylor University Medical Center in Dallas, where he was pronounced dead Sunday night, Lewis said.

Dallas police said they are following leads and conducting interviews, but they have not said whether they have any suspects in the case.

Lupu on Monday described her nephew’s positive personality.

“He was always smiling,” Lupu said.

Marton’s sister, 13-year-old Lisa Marton, said he was interested in cars and may have been buying this one to fix up.

“He wanted a Caprice,” she said. “That’s what he was trying to buy.”

Lisa Marton said she has grown up depending on her brother for advice and will remember the last time they talked, when the two went to the mall and to eat this past weekend.

“We would just sit in his room and talk. He always helped me out,” she said. “I’m the only one now.”

Christian Marton had been working with his father on the family’s farm in Axtell since graduating high school, said Jim Moshinskie, president of Oakcrest Funeral Home.


I wonder how many times this scam has been used. I would do the transfer at a bank. Give the seller a cashiers check and receive the title at the bank.
 
I heard this on the radio yesterday. It is sad when such a thing is dangerous like that. However, I think some cautionary points were probably missed by the seller. If he was going to meet someone he didn't know, he should have done it in a very open place. Also, letting people know where and whom you are meeting is very important.
But, hindsight is 20/20. Now we can all be better prepared.
 
This scam works two ways.

The first one is the above post.

The other one is when you are the seller, the buyer comes, pays cash you transfer title.

then the guys buddies come around the block, beat you up take the cash back and split.

I have a friend who used to sell a lot of cars (he'd buy em cheap and fix them up) and he had some guys try to run that scam on him a few times.
 
Lessons learned, but at his age, it's hard to judge someone who has not experienced life much to begin with. It takes longer than 20 years for most to develop a sense of pending/potential problems.

Kids walk into harms way all too often as unsuspecting victims and are usually alive by accident at that age numereous times [ whether they ever knew it or not ]. It all depends on circumstances brought forth and whether you can make it past those early years to become wiser and more savvy to potentials out there.

Some never learn to be vigilant with maturity as well, and these are the people who we read about more often than not that have been victimized unfortuantely. Sad story to hear about.

Brownie
 
No you never need your gun quickly....condition three is an excellent mode of carry....no I never need to practice my draw....quality holsters are not worth the money....

A lot of the statements you read on these boards don't hold much water when you see real life situations unfold like the one you linked to did.

There are times when speed is necessary.
 
No you never need your gun quickly....condition three is an excellent mode of carry....no I never need to practice my draw....quality holsters are not worth the money.... There are times when speed is necessary.

Apparently he had a CHL, and a handgun. But no mention of what that handgun was, how it was loaded, how it was carried and under what circumstances he tried to draw.

It is quite possible that the killer(s) had their gun(s) in hand, in which case it's unlikey the victim could draw and shoot first, especially if his weapon was carried under deep cover. The whole situation is unfortunate, but too little is known to make any judgments.
 
One of the problems with concealed carry is that to conceal a gun you almost always will slow down your draw. There is a case for open carry (quicker access, greater visual deterrent, more firepower available), but who knows if it would have helped this guy. As Fuff said, if the guy has the drop on you it hardly matters how you were carrying.
 
Remember, TX has no open carry and has a 'failure to conceal' penalty. I hope this poor man wasn't carrying deeper than he would otherwise have, out of fear of the law.

Never thought I would say this, but I'm not happy about moving to Texas this summer...
 
Based on the story, it is difficult to say whether anyone would have been able to draw on time. We don't really know the facts so it is hard to say whether the problem was not being able to draw faster or not seeing the problem before it developed.
 
Never thought I would say this, but I'm not happy about moving to Texas this summer...

You mean cause it's gonna be frickin hot, or the fact that liscenses are expensive and restrictive?
 
I read the article in the link from the Herald-Tribune, but I must have missed something.

Where did it say the young, murdered man had a CCW, and was carrying a concealed handgun, but that he didn't have time to draw it to protect himself????

Just wondering.

L.W.
 
I read the article in the link from the Herald-Tribune, but I must have missed something.

Where did it say the young, murdered man had a CCW, and was carrying a concealed handgun, but that he didn't have time to draw it to protect himself????

Just wondering.

The CHL info was from another story.

Jun 4, 2007 7:10 am US/Central
Man Killed While Trying To Buy Car In Dallas

(CBS 11 News) DALLAS A man was shot and killed late Sunday night after traveling from Waco to Dallas to buy a car.

The incident took place at about 10:15 p.m. in the parking lot of The Reflections of High Point apartment complex in North Dallas.

According to police, 21-year-old Christian Marton responded to an online ad for the vehicle, and was lured up to North Texas to finalize the purchase. Investigators believe that Marton may have been set up.

Police said that the victim was about to meet with the seller when he was approached by a man with a gun, robbed and then shot.

"He met with somebody earlier in the week and made arrangements to buy a car," explained Detective R.L. Ermatinger with the Dallas Police Department. "Came up here tonight to pick up the car, that's why he brought the trailer. When he came up here, he was robbed instead of buying a car. He ended up getting robbed and shot."

Police said that Marton had a license to carry a concealed handgun, but was unable to draw his weapon in time.
 
Texas CHL Holder Killed - Unable to Draw in Time

I missed the part where the police said he was unable to draw in time or that he had a CHL, although I found on another board that the information was presented on www.nbc5i.com, but I could not find it there.

If that information was correct, then he was attempting to draw on a drawn gun. For those folks who think they can readily draw, fire, and hit an opponent before being shot when drawing on a drawn gun, here is a real life example of where it apparently did not work.

I don't know about y'all, but I never buy cars at night. I never go meet strangers at night with them knowing I am carrying thousands of dollars in cash. Assuming everything is as claimed (as opposed to some other sort of transaction at night for large amounts of cash), then it is just a tragedy of a naive young adult who had his CHL for less than a year (he was reported to be 21, the minimum age for a CHL) from an itty bitty town who blundered into a big city low life based on an easily traceable scam as supposedly everything was via the internet and phone connections, yet the police have no suspects. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1844771/posts

It is just too weird. Who goes to buy a used car at night?
 
...condition three is an excellent mode of carry...

Here we go again ...

I don't recall anyone ever saying it was. A few of us carry this way, though, after we balance out various risk factors and make our own calculation. My own involves two small children and my desire to have a safety margin if I, God forbid, lose control of my pistol in the home for some weird reason.

If you live in a black and white world where the only danger to yourself that you perceive is from some thug, then condition one is the way to go. If you live in a world with some gray and the realization that maybe, just maybe, we humans often pose a risk to ourselves through forgetfulness or occasional incompetence, then maybe you want a little more safety margin than 5 lbs.
 
. . . Police said that Marton had a license to carry a concealed handgun, but was unable to draw his weapon in time.

NO ONE can draw a gun in time . . . when the other guy already has his pointed at YOU!

We've all watched too many thousands of hours watching Hollywood BS that shows the good guys able to draw and shoot doown a bad guy who already has the drop on them.

WRONG!

Using a PACT timer (with a delayed start buzzer), I conducted my own tests a few years ago to find out how long it took, from the reaction to a buzzer, to put a "yank & crank" round into the "A" area of an IPSC target. Distance? Six feet.

The start position was "Hands up," with both thumbs touching the ear muffs.

I was competing at the time in some fast draw matches at a range in my area, and I ended up consistently faster than all others, so I'm fairly fast I guess.

The holsters HAD to be conventional CCW or open carry type consumer holsters . . . the kind you and I wear when we are actually carrying.

THE RESULTS?

Shooting a Colt "Combat Elite," full-sized .45ACP, I could never best 1.10 seconds.

My best times came with my N frame S&W 25-2 w/ a 3 1/4" (shortened) barrel. I was consistently in the 0.8 sec. range with my record being 0.78 seconds in competition. Sure, I'm no Jerry Miculek, but I'm still a lot faster than most competitors in my area.

The holster was a conventional nylon Bianchi "Cyclone" holster with a thumb-released strap. The only concession was that the thumb strap could be unsnapped.

HOWEVER . . . the holster was on the hip at 9 o'clock (I'm left handed), whereas I usually carry BEHIND the hip for concealment. PLUS, there was no overshirt as there would be concealed.

THE "EYE OPENER" . . .

With my handgun ALREADY aimed at the target, the reaction time-to-first shot times were virtually zip . . . less than 0.20 seconds for sure.

That really taught me something.

A BG who has a careful bead on your heart can choose what side of the heart to ventilate IMMEDIATELY . . . with time for a couple of other well aimed shots . . . BEFORE I could yank and crank a round under optimum, CCW conditions.

BOTTOM LINE . . .

If someone has the bead on you, DON'T TRY TO BE "MARSHALL DILLON" . . . or you will be killed probably.

T.
 
You mean cause it's gonna be frickin hot, or the fact that liscenses are expensive and restrictive?

The expensive, restrictive liscences, the lack of open carry, and the bible-belt conservative nanny we-don't-take-kindly-your kind mentality.
 
It's just as likely he died because he made the wrong decision and tried to quickdraw his way out of a bad situation. We really don't know without more information.
 
I think that this is more a failure of situational awareness than anything else.
Exactly. A bit more street smarts would have prevented this encounter, let alone this death. It's not a question of beating someone to the draw, but rather a question of recognizing a trap being laid.
 
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