The Friday Springfield 500

Status
Not open for further replies.

1911Tuner

Moderator Emeritus
Joined
May 22, 2003
Messages
18,549
Location
Lexington,North Carolina...or thereabouts
500+ rounds through the GI Springer today. Due to time constraints, I fudged a little. Instead of all rounds through the OEM magazine, I used 54 of my assorted magazines that include mostly Metalforms...A half dozen Colt commercial mags that I've had for years...One Devel (!) that's long since been converted to a 7-round stick...and the others are old GI surplus that I've picked up in various insundry places along the way. Beater mags
that have all been dead reliable in my other range pistols.

The ammo was also a mixture of PMC and Sellier & Bellot Hardball...25 rounds of 12 year-old 230 Hydra-Shok. A dozen rounds of 230 Golden Saber...ANother half-box or so of PMC Starfire...Some Hornady 230 grain TC flat points handloaded with 6.5 grains of Unique. 80 rounds of handloaded Winchester 230 round nose ball in PMC brass w/6.5 grains Unique that I saved for the factory mag test on the end of the session. The balance were MFCLBR...My Funky Cast Lead Bullet Reloads...234 grain bullet and 5 grains of Red Dot. Dirty!

All magazines were loaded to capacity (7 rounds) and fired to slidelock. For the OEM mag test, the magaazine was loaded to capacity and the strings began with a round in the chamber in a 7+1 loading for 10 runs with the mag. The pistol was allowed to cool every 70 rounds, and oil was dribbled into the frame rails with the slide locked and allowed to run down at 140-round intervals...in the interest of not abusing the gun too badly on its maiden voyage.

The factory hardball was first. Nary a hiccup. Then came the hollowpoints. One Hydra-Shok produced a failure to go to full battery near the end of a rapid-fire string. A light push put the gun in battery, and it never repeated. Owing to the fact that the gun was pretty hot, it was likely a fluke.

On to the cast bullet yucky stuff. One failure to go to battery after 6 magazines while trying to induce a limp-wrist malfunction. Again, a light bump put the gun back in action. Three full magazines with a dead limp grip produced no other malfunctions, and the slide locked on empty on all three.

A failure to go to battery on the next magazine. Magazine was retested twice with hardball equivalent handloads, and the malfunction didn't repeat.

One stovepipe fail to eject around the 400-round mark. No repeats. One failure to lock the slide.GI Magazine was retested via hand-cycling, and the failure repeated with the follower shelf riding over the slidestop lug again. Magazine isolated for repair, and the failure didn't repeat with other magazines.

Ejection was straight up and over the top. Got hit on the cheek once by the last round. Brass shows telltale dings on a few casemouths that indicate contact with the bottom of the ejection port. Brass marks at the rear of the port. Indications that extractor tension was beginning to wane near the end of the test. Extractor hook is square on the bottom,
but the wall is beveled to let the rim cam the extractor open. The square corner is probably contributing to the willy-nilly ejection, which sometimes sends brass to the left of the gun. Extractor tweak is called for...possibly a replacement. the next 500 rounds will reveal more. The extractor hook will be radiused before the next session, but tension will be left alone.

I had one disconnector failure to reset near the end. The channel was cacked up with residue form the cast bullets. A squirt of WD-40, and a quick swipe with a toothbrush solved the problem.

Accuracy was good, from my standpoint, and no testing was done off sandbags. Point of impact was a little low and to the right at 15 yards...maybe 2 inches on both planes, as near as I could tell from offhand.

I hope to shoot the next 500 rounds with PMC factory Hardball. I'll detail-strip and clean the pistol before the next session, but only every 1,000 rounds after that point. I want to start fresh with known good ammo instead of the cast reloads to see if there are any repeat issues that I had today.

From this point, I think that the pistol is not a bad choice for the man who doesn't intend to shoot 25,000 rounds a year through it. Good, jacketed ammo would have probably been close to 100% reliable today...with the possible exception of the stovepipe FTE...which seemed to be an extractor tension issue.

Stand by for the Sequel...

Tuner
 
Thanks for the update Tuner. That was a really informative post.
I love these tests, they give me a sense of real world application.
They also help greatly with future purchase research. Bravo!
standin by for the next chapter,
 
I think what Tuner Emeritus was referring to is the idea that, in stock configuration, something on these will probably break before the 25K mark - not surprising, when you think about the fact that it contains some less-than-optimal parts.

So - If you are planning on really working one of these out, you should expect to replace a few parts over the years (although I'd bet the replacements would not themselves need replacing...)

Tuner - my apologies if I misinterpreted ya!
 
re 25k

Howdy sm,


Dorrin nailed it...kinda.

What I meant was, that if you plan on really pourin' it on a pistol, that
the investment cast and MIM parts probably won't hold up to that
for very long, and an upgrade to at least a machined barstock slidestop
and a top-grade extractor would be a good idea. In stock configuration, the pistol appears to be perfectly serviceable for the average gun buyer.

Luck!

Tuner
 
Are you saying that SA has STILL got bad extractors? You suggest that the extractor is "waning" in less than 500 rounds. I see this as a QC issue that SA is still not addressing. Are we to infer that the SA factory extractors SHOULD be replaced when purchased?
 
Extractors

Josey asked:

Are we to infer that the SA factory extractors SHOULD be replaced when purchased?

Howdy Josey. The answer to that one is...maybe. After the detail strip and
cleaning, the extractor tension seemed to still be on the money, so the
jury is still out on that point. Keep in mind that the failure to eject stovepipe happened with a cast bullet reload and brass that's seen better days. The pistol was as filthy as a dirt road and so hot that holding the barrel was uncomfortable. In all, I put 535 rounds through the gun in about an hour and a half...so it didn't get much rest, very little lubrication, and at that point...no cleaning.

Further observations are that there was no indication of any peening or damage, in spite of the fact that the slide was pretty lightly sprung. The
factory recoil spring lost about an eighth of an inch in length and the gauge
insists that it also lost a half-pound of compressed load tension. I'm
planning to try 14 and 16-pound Wolff recoil springs with 32 coils for the
next phase. Possible that with a little extra "oomph" would have chambered the rounds that failed to go to battery. Also possible that
there would be limp-wrist induced malfunctions with a heavier spring...which I consider to be unacceptable in a defensive pistol. If
the 16-pound spring produces grip-related malfunctions, I'll drop to the
14-pounnd, 32 coil spring. My feeling is that the stock 14-pound spring is going to strike the best balance...possibly with a half-coil clipped off.

I also intend to test the accuracy and point of impact from a rest, hopefully
with several different brands of hardball ammo. I may sacrifice a few more
rounds of Hydra-Shok for the test, but I'm mainly interested in ball since that's what the average shooter will use for 90% of the shootin' with this
hawgleg.

So far, I'm pretty well impressed with the gun, and would buy one. My
anal retentive obsession with reliability would dictate that some parts upgrades would first on the list...and the extractor would be high-priority,
even with the OEM extractor not giving problems. It's still an unknown,
and I like to know exactly what's there. I'll also upgrade the magazine with
a Wolff 11-pound spring after the testing. Those are cheap insurance.

Ya'll stand by...This one promises to get rather involved before it's over.
Hopefully Monday will bring another 500-round exercise.

Tuner
 
Springfield 500

Hey, Tuner, I bet you're sick of hearing how knowledgable you are.........:banghead:!
I read all your posts with great interest; I'm finally picking up my first 1911(Springfield Loaded)this Monday. With the 10-day California waiting period,
I've been picking up a few necessities for a first time 1911 owner, including a couple Wilson mags, Wilson chamber brush, Boresnake, and a few more small goodies.

Is the OEM extractor on the Loaded the same as the MilSpec? I'll be using this pistol as a range/fun gun, so, if a small part goes South, no biggie, but I may get into informal matches and will probably get a high(er) grade extractor....C&S....Ed Brown....Wilson....Kings?

Anyway, thanks again for helping us 1911 Newbs!
 
Loaded Extractor

Howdy Han. Thanks for the good words.

As far as I know, the extractors are ll the same, with the possible exception
of the stainless extractors. As noted before...Springfield doesn't make their
extractors or any other small parts in-house, so they're at the mercy of their vendors on the small parts issues.

They're building a solid foundation with this GI Mil-Spec...A couple hundred
dollars worth of upgrades and enhancements is about all it would take.

FWIW, I'd fit a bushing a little tighter...Not a National match fit...just tighten
up the clearances on the front end a bit. I'd fit and fine-tune a good extractor. Barstock hammer, sear, and disconnector with some careful
prep to smooth up the trigger function...to be done soon...install a
flat, checkered mainspring housing and fit a long trigger..personal preference on the last two points. Easy stuff that wouldn't drive the cost
much above a bone-stock NRM Colt, if any.

The slide/frame fit and barrel lockup is already better than the average
NRM Colts that I've seen in the last two years. Right...Not tight.

I think that if Springfield stays the course and doesn't let the quality slip,
they'll sell a blue million of these things in a short time.

May the force be with you!

Tuner
 
Just curious 1911tuner...I've been reading a lot of your posts, and you have tons of good information. I was wondering what was your favorite 1911 pistol, and if you carry a 1911, which one?
 
Hmmmm

How did my reply to Han get posted before the queston???:scrutiny:

Howdy nate,

I carry four 1911s regularly. (One at a time, of course) An oft-rebuilt GI Colt that's 90 years old...A NRM Colt...A home-built "Frankengun" Commander clone, and an early Series 80 LW Commander. The newer pistols have been upgraded with steel sears and disconnects.

I occasionally carry a rebuilt stock Rand...but not often. I'll get around to
the lightly tweaked Norinco that I sto...er uh...bought from a pal. :p
Sorry John. I had to say it or cease to exist.

I'll soon be carrying the steel commander clone that I built last year as
part of a project with my step-son...the one who owns the Springfield
that I'm torture-testing. Anyway...he owns it for NOW.:D

I built one while he watched...then he built his while I watched. Both
turned out nicely. Nothin' fancy or bling-bling...just good, solid pistols
that we'd bet our lives on. We plan on a three-way build in the next year or so...His younger brother wants to get in on the act. We're gonna build
5-inch guns this time...probably on Caspian frames and slides.

Luck!

Tuner
 
How did my reply to Han get posted before the queston???

When you're good, you're great. You know the answer even before the question is asked:D

One thing I noticed on my SA Milspec-when looking at the pistol from the side, the bottom of the barrel bushing cants out, away from the frame juusst a little....probably just a cosmetic thing, but you can see daylight between the bushing and the slide.
 
Tuner

Re: 25K -
What I meant was, that if you plan on really pourin' it on a pistol, that
the investment cast and MIM parts probably won't hold up to that
for very long, and an upgrade to at least a machined barstock slidestop
and a top-grade extractor would be a good idea. In stock configuration, the pistol appears to be perfectly serviceable for the average gun buyer.

I knew that...I just wanted to make you type it so folks would take heed. :D
Dorrin79 just beat ya to the punch is all. :p

Danged old antiquated designed pistols made of metal and shooting older ammo...being reliable and all...hrrummp...ain't...ain't fair now is it? :neener:

Tuner check your Email...uh if I can find my notes to type the thing first...age...you understand.
 
Daylight Bushing

Riley said:

One thing I noticed on my SA Milspec-when looking at the pistol from the side, the bottom of the barrel bushing cants out, away from the frame juusst a little....probably just a cosmetic thing,

Nope. That's a sloppy bushing to slide fit. Mine was fairly close, but
tolerances stacking can make it looser...or tighter. An MGW drop-in
bushing is cut to the high side of tolerance on the OD to better fit the
average slide ID. It may or may not fit tightly enough to block out all
the daylight, but the ones that I've used have fit the average slide pretty well. Matter of fact, I slipped one into this Springfield and it's a nice friction
fit that diesn't require a wrench to turn. I'll accuracy test with the MGW busbing and the stock one, just to get a comparison.

If you'd like to try one, I'll post Brownells part number for it. They offer a
"Hard-Fit" bushing that requires fitting to slide and barrel. The drop-in
is an easy upgrade that'll remove about thlf the barrel slop at the front
end, and the finish is a close match for the GI Mil-Spec.

Luck!

Tuner
 
Tuner,
I now have the perfect weapon test...I call it the "Way of the Gun" test..:D

All ya need is the following..

1 Gov't model 4-5"
20 mags..
200-250 rounds of ammo..
leather holster
target is optional..

test is simple..At firing line produce weapon from leather..empty as fast as you can at target or at canss...reload (without holstering) and repeat firing sequence 20 times...:D :D :D

It is just something that I gotta do one of these days:p
 
Way of the Gun

Howdy azrael,

Sounds like my normal sessions...:D

I load one mag with 7 rounds and two spares with 6 each. Fire 3
doubles or 2 triples and reload on a hot chamber. Start over with
holstered pistol in Condition 1 and repeat until 18 magazines have been fired. Let the gun cool while the mags are reloaded and start over.
Repeat 3 times.

Torture-Test:

Have 54 magazines loaded and ready as described above. Shoot until they're all empty. Let gun cool while mags are reloaded and repeat.
Re-oil the frame rails during the cooling process on both exercises.

The Springer will be torture tested with PMC ball come Monday, God willin' and the creek don't rise...:cool:

Cheers!

Tuner
 
Sounds like my mini-torture test for ammo.

7-seven round magazines of various lineage.
50 rounds of ammo to be tested.

I load all mags, insert one into gun, charge chamber, drop mag and top off.

Replace mag and fire 4, drop mag, insert new mag fire 3, insert new mag drop mag, insert new mag fire 3, etc until last mag.
Shoot to slide lock, replace mag, shoot to slide lock, repeat until done.

This way I get to see how each mag feeds under maximum tension as well as how each handles working the slide stop.

To test the gun I mix up fully loaded 7 and 8 round mags.

I also try to load my mags at least 24 hours before I hit the range.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top