The Marlin 39 Club
- Thread starter AStone
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AStone
Member
LOL.
Is that what it's called?
So, a real trigger job is better.
OK, let me go break my piggy bank....
Jam!
I have been running into this problem recently with one of my 39s--with rounds in the magazing, the lever gets jammed in the fully open position. I assume that the cartridge stop is letting more that one shell out of the mag, as the usual remedy is to remove the mag tube and any ammo, and then shake out the offending round(s)from the receiver. When dissassembled, the cart. stop spring seems to work fine--loading the mag and depressing it manually yields good results. As far as I can tell there are no burrs or stickyness that would keep it in the down position.
I've tried swapping the cartridge stop from another 39 that works well, and it still jams...
Anyone else experience this, and if so, how did you fix it?
Thanks in advance,
Todd
I have been running into this problem recently with one of my 39s--with rounds in the magazing, the lever gets jammed in the fully open position. I assume that the cartridge stop is letting more that one shell out of the mag, as the usual remedy is to remove the mag tube and any ammo, and then shake out the offending round(s)from the receiver. When dissassembled, the cart. stop spring seems to work fine--loading the mag and depressing it manually yields good results. As far as I can tell there are no burrs or stickyness that would keep it in the down position.
I've tried swapping the cartridge stop from another 39 that works well, and it still jams...
Anyone else experience this, and if so, how did you fix it?
Thanks in advance,
Todd
Last edited:
dfariswheel
Member
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- Dec 26, 2002
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Without actually seeing the rifle, it's hard to diagnose something like this.
Some things to check:
Is the rifle clean? No fouling impacted around or under the cartridge stop?
Is the spacer under the cartridge stop?
Is the cartridge stop centered in it's cut? Not catching on one side of the cut?
Is the stop tightly locked in place with the screw tight or is the stop loose?
Any burrs or wear on the bolt where it activates the stop?
Is the rifle's magazine outer tube properly seated in the recess in the receiver?
Some things to check:
Is the rifle clean? No fouling impacted around or under the cartridge stop?
Is the spacer under the cartridge stop?
Is the cartridge stop centered in it's cut? Not catching on one side of the cut?
Is the stop tightly locked in place with the screw tight or is the stop loose?
Any burrs or wear on the bolt where it activates the stop?
Is the rifle's magazine outer tube properly seated in the recess in the receiver?
Thanks for the reply--to answer your questions:
Is the rifle clean? No fouling impacted around or under the cartridge stop?
-I gave it a thorough cleaning, paying extra attention to the cart. stop recess
Is the spacer under the cartridge stop?--It's in place with the flat side against the cart. stop and the contoured side against the receiver.
Is the cartridge stop centered in it's cut? Not catching on one side of the cut?
-It is centered--I tried pressing it different ways to see if I could make it catch--seems to work great. When I load the magazine and manually move the bolt back and forth (the gun is in two pieces at this point), it only feeds one cartridge at a time. When it's back together, it jams.
Is the stop tightly locked in place with the screw tight or is the stop loose?
-The screw is tight, but not over-torqued.
Any burrs or wear on the bolt where it activates the stop?
-The bolt has the usual wear, but nothing excessive. It is a '61 vintage rifle that worked well up until I gave it a good cleaning and replaced the lever spring-likely unrelated but it's really the only thing that I changed. The previous spring allowed the lever to flop around a good deal.
Is the rifle's magazine outer tube properly seated in the recess in the receiver?--It appears to be snug--no perceivable movement.
I have swapped out the cartridge stop and loosened up the lever spring for kicks, and the jamming has reduced in frequency, but it still happens once in every other mag full. Does wonders for your confidence.
Thanks again for any tips--
-Todd
Is the rifle clean? No fouling impacted around or under the cartridge stop?
-I gave it a thorough cleaning, paying extra attention to the cart. stop recess
Is the spacer under the cartridge stop?--It's in place with the flat side against the cart. stop and the contoured side against the receiver.
Is the cartridge stop centered in it's cut? Not catching on one side of the cut?
-It is centered--I tried pressing it different ways to see if I could make it catch--seems to work great. When I load the magazine and manually move the bolt back and forth (the gun is in two pieces at this point), it only feeds one cartridge at a time. When it's back together, it jams.
Is the stop tightly locked in place with the screw tight or is the stop loose?
-The screw is tight, but not over-torqued.
Any burrs or wear on the bolt where it activates the stop?
-The bolt has the usual wear, but nothing excessive. It is a '61 vintage rifle that worked well up until I gave it a good cleaning and replaced the lever spring-likely unrelated but it's really the only thing that I changed. The previous spring allowed the lever to flop around a good deal.
Is the rifle's magazine outer tube properly seated in the recess in the receiver?--It appears to be snug--no perceivable movement.
I have swapped out the cartridge stop and loosened up the lever spring for kicks, and the jamming has reduced in frequency, but it still happens once in every other mag full. Does wonders for your confidence.
Thanks again for any tips--
-Todd
dfariswheel
Member
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- Dec 26, 2002
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- 6,652
I suspect the cartridge carrier.
I'll take a look at mine tomorrow and see if I can narrow down where it might be a problem.
I'll take a look at mine tomorrow and see if I can narrow down where it might be a problem.
Fast Frank
Member
Dry firing?
Interesting that you guys would post about dry firing the model 39.
I recently found a pretty good sized stash of used golf balls in a box on a shelf at work.
After asking around and finding out that they had been sitting there for years and nobody remembers who they belonged to, I claimed them.
We have been having a grand old time with them.
Two or more rifles stand ready, a ball gets chunked out there, and it's on!
Hitting the ball requires that you get your shot off faster than the other guy.
The rapid fire thing means misses, and fast follow up shots.
SEVERAL times while doing this, I have pulled the trigger on my 39 and heard "click".
Bummer. I shot my rifle dry again. I hate it when that happens.
I've inspected the daylights out of it.
There's no sign that the firing pin is hitting the chamber.
The arms that hang down off of the bottom of the firing pin are designed in such a way that it stops the firing pin before it can hurt anything.
While I'm quite sure that dry firing the model 39 won't help it in any way, and I will never dry fire it on purpose, I'm also believing that it doesn't hurt it either.
This is a new style 39AS with the rebounding hammer, so what I just said might not apply to the older rifles.
Interesting that you guys would post about dry firing the model 39.
I recently found a pretty good sized stash of used golf balls in a box on a shelf at work.
After asking around and finding out that they had been sitting there for years and nobody remembers who they belonged to, I claimed them.
We have been having a grand old time with them.
Two or more rifles stand ready, a ball gets chunked out there, and it's on!
Hitting the ball requires that you get your shot off faster than the other guy.
The rapid fire thing means misses, and fast follow up shots.
SEVERAL times while doing this, I have pulled the trigger on my 39 and heard "click".
Bummer. I shot my rifle dry again.
I hate it when that happens. I've inspected the daylights out of it.
There's no sign that the firing pin is hitting the chamber.
The arms that hang down off of the bottom of the firing pin are designed in such a way that it stops the firing pin before it can hurt anything.
While I'm quite sure that dry firing the model 39 won't help it in any way, and I will never dry fire it on purpose, I'm also believing that it doesn't hurt it either.
This is a new style 39AS with the rebounding hammer, so what I just said might not apply to the older rifles.
Update
Thanks dfaris for the advice to check the shell lifter. Tried successfully to get the jamming to occur regularly. When cycling rounds thru with the muzzle pointed up, it jammed repeatedly. I was wrong when I assumed that the cart. stop was allowing more than one round to slip past; what appears to be happening is the cartridge rim gets stuck between the cartridge lifter and the pointy nose on the lower front portion of the bolt. A couple times I was able to clear the jam by smacking the lever with the palm of my hand--the ejected shell showed a decent nick on the outside edge of the rim. The other solution to clearing the jam was to simply point the muzzle down, at which point the shell slides forward and the mechanism works again. In cycling my other two 39s in the same fashion, no jams occurred, and from what I could see through the ejection port the shell never got as far back to cause any stoppage.
I'm going to polish the nose of the bolt and see what happens...
Thanks dfaris for the advice to check the shell lifter. Tried successfully to get the jamming to occur regularly. When cycling rounds thru with the muzzle pointed up, it jammed repeatedly. I was wrong when I assumed that the cart. stop was allowing more than one round to slip past; what appears to be happening is the cartridge rim gets stuck between the cartridge lifter and the pointy nose on the lower front portion of the bolt. A couple times I was able to clear the jam by smacking the lever with the palm of my hand--the ejected shell showed a decent nick on the outside edge of the rim. The other solution to clearing the jam was to simply point the muzzle down, at which point the shell slides forward and the mechanism works again. In cycling my other two 39s in the same fashion, no jams occurred, and from what I could see through the ejection port the shell never got as far back to cause any stoppage.
I'm going to polish the nose of the bolt and see what happens...
Polished the edges and tip of the pointy part of the bolt that sticks out beneath the bolt face--rounded some of the roughness off and smoothed the angle where the rims were catching--so far the problem seems to be fixed! Cycled 200 rounds through w/o incident. On a separate happy note, Fed Ex just dropped off a long awaited CMP remington 513... Shaping up to be a pretty lucky Friday the 13th!
AStone
Member
MP, glad to hear that you've making progress on the jam issue. I haven't had time to sit down and read carefully yet, so I'm still not quite sure I understand the parts that you and others are referring to, but reading with interest. I'll get out my manual this weekend and see if I can parse the situation for myself.
However, this statement rang a bell for me.
The jam was with the new cartridge being loaded in from the magazine. The spent case was ejected fine. The jam occurred after the new cart. had exited the magazine and was being lifted, but would not enter the chamber. I didn't pay enough attention at the time to the particulars. (Next time I go to the range, I'm going to carry my digital camera so I can record it if it happens again.)
And, to the point of your statement, it's interesting that all of them happened when I was working the action as I was pointing the rifle up (or at least significantly more up than horizontal, even if not totally vertical).
In all cases, I was able to quickly clear the "jam" simply by working the action gently and repeatedly (even if partially, since the jam prevented fully cycling) until the cartridge fell into place in the chamber.
I'm wondering: is it conceivable that something similar could be happening in my 336 that is going on in your 39? I'm not learned enough in the two guns yet to be able to know how similar their actions are at that detailed level.
Nem
However, this statement rang a bell for me.
Very interesting. I've had two or three jam problems in my new 336A at the range. (I've only put about 100 rnds through it so far; still working on sighting issues.)
The jam was with the new cartridge being loaded in from the magazine. The spent case was ejected fine. The jam occurred after the new cart. had exited the magazine and was being lifted, but would not enter the chamber. I didn't pay enough attention at the time to the particulars. (Next time I go to the range, I'm going to carry my digital camera so I can record it if it happens again.)
And, to the point of your statement, it's interesting that all of them happened when I was working the action as I was pointing the rifle up (or at least significantly more up than horizontal, even if not totally vertical).
In all cases, I was able to quickly clear the "jam" simply by working the action gently and repeatedly (even if partially, since the jam prevented fully cycling) until the cartridge fell into place in the chamber.
I'm wondering: is it conceivable that something similar could be happening in my 336 that is going on in your 39? I'm not learned enough in the two guns yet to be able to know how similar their actions are at that detailed level.
Nem
dfariswheel
Member
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- Dec 26, 2002
- Messages
- 6,652
I sat down this afternoon and took a good look at the 39 action to refresh my understanding of the design.
HOW THE MARLIN 39 WORKS:
When the magazine is loaded, the first round bypasses the cartridge stop and feeds slightly into the receiver, being caught by the flat front face of the lug on the lower front of the bolt.
When the lever is operated and the bolt moves to the rear, that cartridge is actually dropped onto the trough of the cartridge carrier.
The NEXT round in the magazine is caught by the cartridge stop and prevented from entering the receiver.
As the lever is raised, the cartridge carrier pivots upward, positioning the cartridge in line with the bolt, which moves forward to chamber the round.
As the bolt moves forward, the cartridge carrier pivots downward, the lug on the lower front of the bolt presses the cartridge stop into it's recess, and allows the next round to be fed out of the magazine, which is caught by the flat front face of the bolt lug.
The reason the Model 39 can feed Short and Long, as well as Long Rifle length cartridges is because the cartridge stop is NOT what really regulates feeding from the magazine.
All the cartridge stop does is to prevent double feeding from the magazine.
The TIMING of the feed cycle is actually the lug on the lower front of the bolt.
For this reason, actual double feeds are caused by problems with the cartridge stop, but jams that SEEM to be double feeds are actually caused by problems with the bolt lug, or the cartridge carrier.
Because or the unique two-piece 39 receiver with the feed mechanism split between the two halves, it's difficult to diagnose whether you have an actual double feed, or a stoppage cause by something else.
What you want to see with the bolt, is that the triangular bolt lug is reasonably smooth on the front face and no unduly sharp edges or corners, with no burrs or roughness that might cause sticking or catching on the cartridges.
Bright polishing of bolt features does nothing for reliable operation, and may actually destroy the bolt.
SMOOTH is best, not mirror bright.
Some stoppages in the 39 are caused by the cartridge guide, (or lack of a guide) in the RIGHT receiver half.
Earlier rifles have a stamped, formed flat spring in a deep recess in the right receiver wall.
Later rifles have a heavy, spring-loaded pivoting steel block in the receiver wall, and newer rifles dispensed entirely with any cartridge guide in the right side at all.
If the cartridge guide is weak, dirt impacted, mis-formed, or otherwise defective, the rifle may jam, especially if it's not held level when the action operates.
The latest rifles with no cartridge guide are especially prone to this.
To check for proper operation and to look for possible stoppage causes, disassemble the receiver, press down on the ejector and rotate the slotted rivet to lock it down in the cleaning position.
Remove the firing pin from the bolt.
With the bolt OUT, load a single cartridge into the magazine.
(Needless to say, BE CAREFUL WHEN WORKING WITH LIVE AMMO).
That cartridge should be held in the magazine by the cartridge stop, until you press the stop into it's recess, at which point the cartridge should be pushed out of the magazine.
The stop should immediately spring back into position to catch the next round.
To test cartridge feed, load one two rounds into the magazine.
Install the bolt, then push the bolt forward to the closed position.
As the bolt is pushed forward, the lug on the bolt bottom should press the cartridge stop into it's recess, and allow the first cartridge to move partially out of the magazine, and be stopped by the flat front face of the bolt lug.
Move the bolt to the rear, the cartridge should drop into the receiver, and the next cartridge in the magazine should be caught and held in the magazine by the cartridge stop.
MOST mis-feed problems in the 39 are double feeds caused by the cartridge stop.
In the case where it's clearly not a double feed caused by the cartridge stop, or when the rifle is held level during operation, you should be looking for problems with the bolt lug or cartridge carrier.
HOW THE MARLIN 39 WORKS:
When the magazine is loaded, the first round bypasses the cartridge stop and feeds slightly into the receiver, being caught by the flat front face of the lug on the lower front of the bolt.
When the lever is operated and the bolt moves to the rear, that cartridge is actually dropped onto the trough of the cartridge carrier.
The NEXT round in the magazine is caught by the cartridge stop and prevented from entering the receiver.
As the lever is raised, the cartridge carrier pivots upward, positioning the cartridge in line with the bolt, which moves forward to chamber the round.
As the bolt moves forward, the cartridge carrier pivots downward, the lug on the lower front of the bolt presses the cartridge stop into it's recess, and allows the next round to be fed out of the magazine, which is caught by the flat front face of the bolt lug.
The reason the Model 39 can feed Short and Long, as well as Long Rifle length cartridges is because the cartridge stop is NOT what really regulates feeding from the magazine.
All the cartridge stop does is to prevent double feeding from the magazine.
The TIMING of the feed cycle is actually the lug on the lower front of the bolt.
For this reason, actual double feeds are caused by problems with the cartridge stop, but jams that SEEM to be double feeds are actually caused by problems with the bolt lug, or the cartridge carrier.
Because or the unique two-piece 39 receiver with the feed mechanism split between the two halves, it's difficult to diagnose whether you have an actual double feed, or a stoppage cause by something else.
What you want to see with the bolt, is that the triangular bolt lug is reasonably smooth on the front face and no unduly sharp edges or corners, with no burrs or roughness that might cause sticking or catching on the cartridges.
Bright polishing of bolt features does nothing for reliable operation, and may actually destroy the bolt.
SMOOTH is best, not mirror bright.
Some stoppages in the 39 are caused by the cartridge guide, (or lack of a guide) in the RIGHT receiver half.
Earlier rifles have a stamped, formed flat spring in a deep recess in the right receiver wall.
Later rifles have a heavy, spring-loaded pivoting steel block in the receiver wall, and newer rifles dispensed entirely with any cartridge guide in the right side at all.
If the cartridge guide is weak, dirt impacted, mis-formed, or otherwise defective, the rifle may jam, especially if it's not held level when the action operates.
The latest rifles with no cartridge guide are especially prone to this.
To check for proper operation and to look for possible stoppage causes, disassemble the receiver, press down on the ejector and rotate the slotted rivet to lock it down in the cleaning position.
Remove the firing pin from the bolt.
With the bolt OUT, load a single cartridge into the magazine.
(Needless to say, BE CAREFUL WHEN WORKING WITH LIVE AMMO).
That cartridge should be held in the magazine by the cartridge stop, until you press the stop into it's recess, at which point the cartridge should be pushed out of the magazine.
The stop should immediately spring back into position to catch the next round.
To test cartridge feed, load one two rounds into the magazine.
Install the bolt, then push the bolt forward to the closed position.
As the bolt is pushed forward, the lug on the bolt bottom should press the cartridge stop into it's recess, and allow the first cartridge to move partially out of the magazine, and be stopped by the flat front face of the bolt lug.
Move the bolt to the rear, the cartridge should drop into the receiver, and the next cartridge in the magazine should be caught and held in the magazine by the cartridge stop.
MOST mis-feed problems in the 39 are double feeds caused by the cartridge stop.
In the case where it's clearly not a double feed caused by the cartridge stop, or when the rifle is held level during operation, you should be looking for problems with the bolt lug or cartridge carrier.
dfariswheel
Member
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2002
- Messages
- 6,652
Nematocyst-870:
The Model 39 also has an UPPER cartridge guide in the "roof" of the receiver.
This is a simple curved flat spring that serves to prevent the cartridge tipping upward during brisk operation, and mis-aligning with the chamber.
In the case of your 336A, I suspect this is what's happening.
As the action is operated, especially with the barrel pointed upward, the cartridge is tipping upward and the bullet is catching on the rear chamber face.
You might look for a sharp edge on the upper rear of the barrel.
The Model 39 also has an UPPER cartridge guide in the "roof" of the receiver.
This is a simple curved flat spring that serves to prevent the cartridge tipping upward during brisk operation, and mis-aligning with the chamber.
In the case of your 336A, I suspect this is what's happening.
As the action is operated, especially with the barrel pointed upward, the cartridge is tipping upward and the bullet is catching on the rear chamber face.
You might look for a sharp edge on the upper rear of the barrel.
tubeshooter
Contributing Member
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2006
- Messages
- 2,141
Thanks, dfariswheel.
This thread is turning out to be a great resource, indeed. The 336 thread, too. I'm glad to see it.
This thread is turning out to be a great resource, indeed. The 336 thread, too. I'm glad to see it.
AStone
Member
Wheel, thanks. Makes sense. I'll check it carefully this weekend and report back.
Nem
Nem
Brassman
Member
Hey Mo,
That rabbit makes me want dumplin's really bad. Nice picture! Where was it taken? The landscape almost looks like the Outer Banks of NC around Buxton with snow, which doesn't happen too often. I'm sure it's from somewhere different, but that's where I thought of when I saw it.
That rabbit makes me want dumplin's really bad. Nice picture! Where was it taken? The landscape almost looks like the Outer Banks of NC around Buxton with snow, which doesn't happen too often. I'm sure it's from somewhere different, but that's where I thought of when I saw it.
AStone
Member
Welcome, Troop. Nice mountie.
That shorter barrel just appeals to me so much. Raises thoughts again about lopping a few inches off of my 39A ... (that is, letting my smith do it).
What kind of groups can you get with it at, say, 50 yds and 100 yds when using a bench rest?
That shorter barrel just appeals to me so much. Raises thoughts again about lopping a few inches off of my 39A ... (that is, letting my smith do it).
What kind of groups can you get with it at, say, 50 yds and 100 yds when using a bench rest?
I'll put my quarter on somewhere in the great basin desert between NW NM & eastern WA.
SwampWolf
Member
Great photo- I'm going to guess Arizona.
AStone
Member
It really is a great photo. The earth tone colors just balance out so well ...
Brassman
Member
I can't believe it's been almost three days with no posts to this thread.
I will be taking my 39A out to a friend's farm on Friday to pick up some tomato plants. I think I'll hang around the edge of his woods and call a few crows to join me and the 39A. Maybe we can have a party! If I have no luck, there's always tin cans.
I will be taking my 39A out to a friend's farm on Friday to pick up some tomato plants. I think I'll hang around the edge of his woods and call a few crows to join me and the 39A. Maybe we can have a party! If I have no luck, there's always tin cans.
Last edited:
AStone
Member
Very nice, and good enough for me.
I'm thinking I'll end up cutting my 39A barrel down. I just really like a shorter barrel for handling. <heresy>
Final update--my 39 is feeding well--haven't been able to make it jam, regardless of the angle I hold it at. A little careful smoothing of rough edges made all the difference.
Now to spur discussion--Got a couple questions for the group--first one is: what vintage 39 has given you the best performance overall--build quality, accuracy on paper, etc? I saw a cherry '78 39A over the weekend for a decent price, but I know nothing about Marlin quality control in the 70s. I know it looked nice, had good polish, and the seams were tight, but they wouldn't let me crack her open to peek inside. Given that there are tack drivers and lemons in every bunch, are there any conclusions that can be drawn? I had an 39 made in 1985 that looked and handled great, but wouldn't do better than 1.5" @ 50 scoped, and with the ammo it liked best(traded for the '61 I have been working on), while the Mountie I have, made in 1969 will do .5" at 50 with a $30 scope.
Second question--having decided to upgrade to a scope that is worthy of the gun it is mounted on, what kind of scopes have you found to give good performance at a good price? I checked out the rimfire Leupolds, and while the quality is evident and the size just about right, the friction adjustment knobs (no click adjustments) turned me off. Looking for the good/bad/and ugly of your search for the perfect scope for your 39A.
Thanks!
Now to spur discussion--Got a couple questions for the group--first one is: what vintage 39 has given you the best performance overall--build quality, accuracy on paper, etc? I saw a cherry '78 39A over the weekend for a decent price, but I know nothing about Marlin quality control in the 70s. I know it looked nice, had good polish, and the seams were tight, but they wouldn't let me crack her open to peek inside. Given that there are tack drivers and lemons in every bunch, are there any conclusions that can be drawn? I had an 39 made in 1985 that looked and handled great, but wouldn't do better than 1.5" @ 50 scoped, and with the ammo it liked best(traded for the '61 I have been working on), while the Mountie I have, made in 1969 will do .5" at 50 with a $30 scope.
Second question--having decided to upgrade to a scope that is worthy of the gun it is mounted on, what kind of scopes have you found to give good performance at a good price? I checked out the rimfire Leupolds, and while the quality is evident and the size just about right, the friction adjustment knobs (no click adjustments) turned me off. Looking for the good/bad/and ugly of your search for the perfect scope for your 39A.
Thanks!
Brassman
Member
Sistem
Yes I certainly do have news access. I just didn't want this thread to remain off the front pages too long and needed something to get started with.
I meant no disrespect or irreverance to the victims or their families at Va. Tech.
Yes I certainly do have news access. I just didn't want this thread to remain off the front pages too long and needed something to get started with.
I meant no disrespect or irreverance to the victims or their families at Va. Tech.
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