The perfect Model 70 No. 2 Rifle

Status
Not open for further replies.

horsemen61

Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2011
Messages
6,756
Howdy everyone

let me start by saying I’m still fairly young around these parts if I hazard to guess :D I’m not yet 30 I can’t remember the AWB or Y2K


I’ve never read any of Jack O’connor’s work
But I’ve happened upon pics and stories of his Perfect model 70...........
So I am curious can you all tell me more about it????

The real reason I ask is because that is what I am after in my life I want 1 Perfect (for me) Model 70 only difference I want mine in the evil
6.5 Creedmoor :what:

so I am trying to recreate that rifle as best I can thanks y’all for all the help
 
let me start by saying I’m still fairly young around these parts if I hazard to guess :D I’m not yet 30 I can’t remember the AWB or Y2K

Good on you mate! You're a good age to eventually inherit the classic wood and steel hunting rifles that my generation loves, and that many shooters of your generation have yet to become interested in.

... what I am after in my life I want 1 Perfect (for me) Model 70 only difference I want mine in the evil 6.5 Creedmoor :what:
so I am trying to recreate that rifle as best I can thanks y’all for all the help

Could you give us more details about the specifics of what you are looking for? For example, are you looking for walnut and blued steel? Does Winchester need to be stamped on the action and barrel?

If you can skip the Winchester brand, the Kimber 84M has a blend of Mauser and Model 70 features in a lighter package, and comes from the factory in 6.5 Creed. You could go plastic and stainless with the basic Hunter model at around $800, or spend twice as much (or more) and go for a Classic or Super package with nice wood and polished bluing.
 
The primary advantage of the Winchester 70 is CRF. From 1964-1992 model 70's were not CRF and the pre-64's as they are known as were the only option for CRF Winchesters. During that time ANY pre-64 sold at a premium, not necessarily because the rifles were better, but because that was the only way to get CRF. Today there are other CRF options including Ruger and Kimber.

Winchester brought CRF back in 1992 with their "Classic" line of rifles. They were made until 2006 when the New Haven plant was closed. Those are IMO the best model 70's ever made. Much better than the pre-64's. They incorporate CRF and all the other features that are important with modern manufacturing methods which resulted in better quality, better accuracy and better finished rifles. Quality did start to slowly go down after about 2000. The early guns with 6 digit SN's are usually trouble free. Even most of the later 7 digit SN guns are fine, but the odds are better that you'll get one with problems the closer you get to a 2006 made rifle.

There were none made in 2007 and only a handful in 2008, full production in the South Carolina FN factory didn't get going until 2009 and 2010. They have since moved production to the FN factory in Portugal. If I wanted a Winchester 70 being made in Portugal wouldn't stop me, but I'd prefer one made here. Also, the 2008 and newer model 70's have a different trigger and I much prefer the older style trigger.

Most people have no clue what the advantages of CRF really are. They don't FEED any better than a Push Feed (PF) rifle. Their advantages are a much more reliable, robust EXTRACTION and EJECTION system. The old style trigger was as bulletproof, rugged and reliable as any trigger. Those rifles were made to function in dirty harsh conditions that would choke most other guns. The problem is that almost no one abuses a rifle enough to ever see the advantages pay off. Back when O'Connor was hunting month long trips on horseback into wilderness area in harsh cold, snow, ice, mud and wind were common. You were several days away from any gunsmith to repair a rifle and they had to work even if dropped in mud or snow.

That is the primary reason they are preferred by dangerous game hunters. People incorrectly assume it is because they feed more reliably. Not so. But they will extract and eject rounds even when the rifle is filthy from weeks of use in harsh conditions. The new trigger is more complex and the reason I really prefer the older 1992-2006 Classics.

If you want to duplicate what O'Connor used I'd be looking for a used Classic Featherweight. Of course O'Connor had his restocked and the Schnabel forend did not exist in OConnors day. The closest thing you'll get out of the box is a Kimber.

This stock style is very close to the one on O'Connor's rifle.
https://www.kimberamerica.com/rifles


hero-rifles_1_3.png
 

Attachments

  • 006.JPG
    006.JPG
    174.6 KB · Views: 8
Good on you mate! You're a good age to eventually inherit the classic wood and steel hunting rifles that my generation loves, and that many shooters of your generation have yet to become interested in.



Could you give us more details about the specifics of what you are looking for? For example, are you looking for walnut and blued steel? Does Winchester need to be stamped on the action and barrel?

If you can skip the Winchester brand, the Kimber 84M has a blend of Mauser and Model 70 features in a lighter package, and comes from the factory in 6.5 Creed. You could go plastic and stainless with the basic Hunter model at around $800, or spend twice as much (or more) and go for a Classic or Super package with nice wood and polished bluing.

Well I thought I was after a model 70 Winchester but that Kimber is a nice looking Gun!!!!!

basically I’m after a gorgeous blued and wood hunting rifle that shoots as good as it looks that model 70 featherweight looks good as well time to think on what I’d rather have hmmmm
 
Can anyone clarify how bolt handles are attached on these various makes? Ive looked quite a bit on the web and cant find much. Are any modern day rifles made with integral bolts like the old mausers? Ive heard that kimbers are, but the FN model 70’s are a splined pressed on thing or something? Im sure either method is adequately strong, just curious.
 
Can anyone clarify how bolt handles are attached on these various makes? Ive looked quite a bit on the web and cant find much. Are any modern day rifles made with integral bolts like the old mausers? Ive heard that kimbers are, but the FN model 70’s are a splined pressed on thing or something? Im sure either method is adequately strong, just curious.

I've asked myself this question too. I'm confident the handle on the Ruger 77 bolt is integrally cast. Remington 700 bolts were originally brazed together from five pieces (Bolt Action vol1 by S. Otteson, p.123), but who knows now -- aftermarket 700 bolts with integral handles and claw-ish extractors are available. The Savage 110 handle is a separate piece from the bolt body. The CZ527 handle is removable and secures the firing pin. I haven't inspected that many, but it looks to me like a number of the current trend of 'value priced' bolt actions (Ruger American, T/C Venture, etc.) have separate bolt handles
 
Can anyone clarify how bolt handles are attached on these various makes? Ive looked quite a bit on the web and cant find much. Are any modern day rifles made with integral bolts like the old mausers? Ive heard that kimbers are, but the FN model 70’s are a splined pressed on thing or something? Im sure either method is adequately strong, just curious.

The original pre 64's, the bolt, handle and all, were milled from a single billet.

3JNbfiC.jpg

Stuart Ottesen, writing in the 1970s showed the post 64 M70's were made from three sections. The bolt handle and bolt lugs were separate and attached by silver soldering to the bolt middle. I think that is still true, but it does not have to be. The semi conductor revolution has really dropped the cost of machining, to the point that SIG went from stamped P220 slides to milled. Anyway, the post 64 M70's have not had the problems the M700 has with its silver soldered bolt handles shearing off due to abuse.
 
Montana Rifle Company offers their American Standard and American Legend in 6.5 Creedmoor. I’ve never handled or shot one so I can’t vouch for it, but they have a Model 70 esque action, the older trigger (supposedly more reliable), and are available with walnut and blued steel (right or left handed).
 
Just remember that most rifles/scopes/ammo that were considered top of the line from pre-1964 back would be sub average today

If I had to actually use a rifle and had the choice of a pre 64 and scope versus a well made combo from today, it wouldn’t be close.

A good and perfectly valid point. However, if you happen to find a Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 carbine in 6.5x54 in nice condition, I'll gladly trade you a brand new Ruger American in your choice of chambering for it.

Sometimes history and romance trumps absolute accuracy.
 
I have both a “Portugal” Model 70 EW and a Kimber CC Select in .308. Superb quality, superb lookers and superb accuracy (with hand loads) - in my mind, the look of the Model 70 CF bolt and the general architecture of the rifle is quintessential Americana stolen from the paper-hanging Huns - very nice to own (I have also been known to hold, admire and talk to these rifles occasionally but I do not advertise that on this forum).
 
Last edited:
I think many guns are kinda like muscle cars of the 60’s. I had two, a brand new ‘68 GTO and a ‘71 Mustang Super Cobra Jet 429. There’s all this aura because they were the biggest, baddest, fastest.

Well, I had a chance to ride in a friend’s ‘68 GTO not too long ago. It was rough riding, absolutely drink gas, noisy, and I really think I could match the acceleration with my 2014 Jeep Cherokee. Memories didn’t jive with reality
 
Over the years you’ve posted some pre 64’s that are stunning. Don’t disagree.

If you just wanna store leftovers in the fridge, maybe Tupperware is the way to go. Not everyone wants/needs/can afford fine china

Some years back when I was really into accumulating firearms, I would have loved a really nice pre-64. Have one just to have one. In reality, I very seriously doubt if it would out perform my CZ’s in any category

But, if it’s what you want and you can afford it, have at it. You get what you want, I’ll get what I want.
 
Last edited:
I have a 1954 Win Mod 70 in .30-06. In some ways (sentimental) it is my favorite gun.

What comes with me is my 1973 Ruger M77 .270 Win that my dad gave me with the old scope ripped off and a new Vortex put on with good rings and shoots far better than I do with Superformance ammo. Haven't even bothered to start reloading for it the bullet fly so straight.

FWIW: I have never owned a Kimber rifle. I would be happy to prove myself wrong if I ever came upon something like a .257 Bob or a .25-06 or 35 Whelen (but I digress). But their 1911s leave something to be desired.

What you're looking for sounds absolutely fantastic! I hope you find it and learn it well. It will be a pleasure for you and for those our Lord gives you to teach behind you!

Greg
 
Just remember that most rifles/scopes/ammo that were considered top of the line from pre-1964 back would be sub average today

If I had to actually use a rifle and had the choice of a pre 64 and scope versus a well made combo from today, it wouldn’t be close.

Just because I had the scope and a pre WW2 M70, I decided to put the two together.

YSI4JZj.jpg

On top was a Weaver 4x, I think an El Paso Weaver, but regardless, it was an old scope. And, at 300 yards, once you got the thing adjusted for windage and elevation, I could quarter the 300 yard target and produce good groups.

xYdJUKe.jpg

G7KtSDC.jpg

But, the image in the scope was slightly gray, it would work fine in bright daylight, but it was not as clear as I wanted. Given this rifle would shoot, I installed a nice and clear 4 X 12 Luepold and shot that.

DkWLfzf.jpg

bitI9zj.jpg

2QG7BEe.jpg

wgm1Lzh.jpg

I regularly shoot with 1960's/1970's Redfield 3200's in Smallbore Prone competition.

nA0Yb5F.jpg

DCuLRwH.jpg

and they are good scopes. Very clear. Top end vintage scopes can still be very good in comparison to today's equipment, but the cheap stuff is not as good as comparable modern low priced optics. There is never a reason to handicap your self with sub standard optics.
 
Mr Slamfire is spot on about the quality and performance of optics and shooting gear that may be considered outdated by today's shooters who have been weaned on AR's and imported glass. But for the record: American Made Bausch & Lomb scopes made in the 1950's remain the gold standard for reliable hunting optics and the plain 1950 era M-722 Remington's like this .257 Roberts, will match or beat the accuracy of any sporting rifle made today. DSC_0192.JPG
 
Mr Slamfire is spot on about the quality and performance of optics and shooting gear that may be considered outdated by today's shooters who have been weaned on AR's and imported glass. But for the record: American Made Bausch & Lomb scopes made in the 1950's remain the gold standard for reliable hunting optics and the plain 1950 era M-722 Remington's like this .257 Roberts, will match or beat the accuracy of any sporting rifle made today.View attachment 875222

@Offfhand

I’d still like the details on the rifle you posted above the model 70

please
 
Awww Offhand, so nice to give a newbie a fine rifle to get started with... JK, but that rifle is a beauty!
I too went through the need for a pretty hunting rifle, but I went little with a cz 527 carbine. Cheap enough ammo to shoot it all day, and crf to boot.

The one CRF hunting rifle with wood stock I had was a ruger tang safety m77 in 338 mag, but after splitting two stocks I let it go. Should have thrown it in a synthetic.

I have always wanted to find a model 70 like the one Offhand so graciously shared with us, it is the epitome of classy...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top