The Shooting at the republican baseball team almost a year ago

Status
Not open for further replies.

Jeff White

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 24, 2002
Messages
37,889
Location
Alma Illinois
There is a good article out today on what happened that day. I'm going to post some excerpts and photos from the article for the purpose of having an ON TOPIC discussion of this event and what we can learn from it. There will be no thread drift into politics.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/katenocera/baseball-shooting?utm_term=.yo7YMwBmB2#.tx0Ozl838K

The Republican team had been practicing for years at this field, a regulation-size diamond with batting cages, in a suburban area. “People go through, they walk their dog, they bring their kids.” The Republicans get out there at 6 a.m., run a baseball practice, then head back into the District, shower, shave, and go to work on Capitol Hill. “It’s the most benign, very quiet, sedate place.” They’d never even had a protester.

Fleischmann would’ve been long gone — practice was basically over — except he wanted to plead his case.

So he walked up behind home plate, OK, to see Larry Hardy, who is and was the pitching coach and played for the San Diego Padres. Larry, look, I’m hot. And Hardy told him it wasn’t his decision to make. I understand that, but I’m pissed off because I come out and I practice hard every day and I know what’s gonna happen — the game will start and I’ll be begging from the first inning on to get in, and they’ll put me in for a half inning at the end and I won’t get an at-bat. And Hardy’s telling him, no, no, it won’t be that way—

“We hear from over in this area just a loud, single bang. Just one.”

The sound startled Will Batson, a Senate staffer and former NFL punter who was throwing batting practice, enough that he almost hit Rep. Rodney Davis.

There was a pause. Only a few seconds, but long enough to experience what Rep. Steve Pearce would describe as a “strange, dissociated notion that I can’t imagine that loud of a metallic sound.” A filing cabinet falling off a moving truck, a firecracker, some nearby construction, a car backfiring, maybe?

“It doesn’t stop,” Fleischmann says. “This guy just keeps cranking out, firing and firing and firing. People are screaming.”

“People, staff, and players,” says Rep. Joe Barton, “were just like quail, were scattering.”

When the shooting started, Matt Mika started running toward the Capitol Police, who were parked about 20 feet from the first-base entrance. He ran for the open gate, just behind the first-base dugout, trying to get out, trying to get to the police, hoping to be helpful.

Mika is a handsome guy, and young, at least compared to the team’s players. He’s a lobbyist who volunteers with the team, the kind of well-liked guy who knows everyone in Washington.

“Three or four of us were kind of huddling right there trying to get out the gate at the same time,” Batson says. “I saw Matt, saw him kind of hesitate a little bit.”

This is where Mika got hit. The bullet punctured his right lung, which collapsed, and went out his chest. He had three broken ribs, a cracked rib, a floating rib. The bullet hit his sternum. Missed his heart by less than half an inch. “7.62 is the bullet, that’s like an inch and a half — so that went through my chest.”

But Mika continued to run.

“We got outside the gate...turned around,” says Ryan Thompson, another staffer, “and Matt’s like, ‘Dude, I’ve been shot.’”

They told him to get down, to lie down behind the Capitol Police’s SUV. So he did. He lay down on the pavement. Special Agent Crystal Griner tried to protect him. She was engaging the shooter. She got shot in the ankle. He got shot again, too, in the arm.

It was hot inside his chest. His Detroit Tigers jersey was open, with blood all the way down. “I have a hole in my chest. Everyone can see my heart.”

Mika never felt either bullet. He stayed on the ground, just trying to breathe. “Time slowed down.”

Steve Scalise knew he was shot instantly. He felt something as he was trying to turn away from the shooter. “My legs gave out, and I fell down.”

He knew he had to keep moving or risk another bullet. “You didn’t know how long it was going to last, or what was going to happen next, or, you know, if you were going to get hit again.”

And so one of the most important politicians in America started crawling, using his arms to pull himself toward the outfield from second base. He started praying. He started moving less and less.

After he’d reached shallow grass in right field, his arms gave out.

It felt like forever. People who had made it off the field were calling out to him.

But he stayed out there, alone, because no one could reach him.

Zack Barth could see the shooter from center field. “Not everybody could.”

He saw him — right next to the third-base dugout — and he saw him keep shooting. Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop. Barth started to run. He wanted to put as much distance between himself and the shooter, to get as far away as he could. He ran into right field, right behind one of his friends. The outfield fence is tall, something like 20 feet, but there’s a big gate, so Barth — a quiet 25-year-old staffer for Williams — went for it.

The gate was locked. He’d run into a corner. “There’s nowhere I could go.” The gate was locked and Barth was trapped inside the field.

“So I just kind of hit the deck.” He and his friend dropped to the ground, lying on the warning track with nothing between them and an SKS-style semiautomatic. He saw the shooter turn their way. “Then you start hearing, like, things popping around you.” Gravel was going everywhere.

There wasn’t pain, or at least not pain he was thinking about. But his leg was hot. Really hot. “I could feel how hot it was and I definitely knew, like, I had gotten shot.”

His friend climbed up the fence, way up in the air, then jumped down. Barth tried to follow him up, but quickly realized he wouldn’t be able to do that. A bullet had gone straight through his leg.

So he did the only thing he could: run. He turned and ran toward the first-base dugout, maybe 60 feet, from outfield to infield, past Scalise, whom he could not help, back closer toward the shooter.

“I jumped into the dugout. Roger happened to be right there. And so I just kind of — I mean, the way he describes it — jumped into his arms.”

He dove into my arms; it’s like God brought us together,” Williams says.

When the shooting started, Williams knew he needed to get inside the first-base dugout. Unusually, the field’s dugouts are real — you step down into them, like on a pro baseball field. “Real dugouts. And I remember, so my brain said, I gotta get to that dugout. So I dove into that dugout and I literally was like diving into a swimming pool with no water.”

This is where a bunch of them hid, everybody from Sen. Jeff Flake, the Trump critic, to Rep. Mo Brooks, the Freedom Caucus member from Alabama, feet below the field.

“All we could hear was this guy firing this ... weapon,” Williams says.

Surrounded by cinderblock and lying on concrete, every noise was in stereo. “It just kind of echoes around in there,” says Flake. “That was pretty horrifying to hear all that.”

And ricochet bullets were landing there, too. It occurred to a few of them then that maybe the dugout wasn’t really that safe after all. And if you go to the field, you can see bullet holes through the top of the dugout, sheds, and metal poles on the fence.

“It would be pretty easy for him to just start shooting in there and hitting people — ’cause you couldn’t miss, we were so tightly packed together,” Brooks says.

They kept waiting for the Capitol Police to fire back. (At least one person worried that maybe the agents had been killed, and then...?) They kept waiting for it to end, hoping that they could get out to Scalise, who some could see trying to drag himself into the outfield. They just kept waiting, for what felt like forever, for any noise that wasn’t the shooter. “If we could hear sirens, we would know somebody’s coming to help us,” Williams says.

And then came the shots from the Capitol Police.

The difference in the shots was audible: boom boom boom versus ping ping ping. “As opposed to that rapid fire of a strong semiautomatic-weapon ba-bam ba-bam ba-bam that just kept coming and kept going,” Fleischmann says, “we heard pow pow pow pow.”

Still, even as all this was going on, “everybody was doing something,” Williams says. “I had somebody tell me, ‘Well, I bet you were freaking out.’ Nobody freaked out.”

The article goes on to talk about the first aid and other things that happened in the aftermath.

Here are some of the photos:
ball field after the shooting.jpg


This is the ball diamond after the shooting.

Shooter's and Capitol Police positions.jpg

The positions of the shooter and the officers.
Responding police positions.jpg

positions of the backup officers
First Base Dugout.jpg

And the dugout.

While they were targeted for political reasons, it's not out of the realm of possibility that anyone here could be in a similar position if an EDP lets loose on a ball game.

I don't know how many public ball diamonds have actual dugouts, I can only think of one around here.

Again, if this discussion turns political the thread is done. We are in ST&T here, lets keep all comments on topic.
 
Would you consider the cinder block construction dugout cover or concealment? I'm thinking more concealment, though it might afford some deflection or at least loss of energy to lighter rounds. But they do break up when shot.
 
Cinder block can be demolished pretty quickly with a rifle. Some will go through both sides of the hollow portion of a block. You might buy more time if the shooter has a handgun only, but not much. I would regard it as very temporary cover to rifle fire in the context of 7.62x39 or 5.56.

However, if you find yourself in there, it might be better to stay put than run over open ground if a shooter is gunning for you. Unless they might head your way, in which case if you make a run for it zig zag and run for your life. Literally.
 
Last edited:
My initial thought was that the dugout could be used for cover but could also be used as a place to make a desperation offensive move. If your there you are in a bad spot, open all around and you have realistically 1 way out. You are in cover with your only exit through a choke point. If you are armed you could try to ambush your attacker if he comes to the dugout, but he has the whole length of the dugout to pop up from. You have a 4 ft hole to run through.
 
If a shooter is closing in on your position you can pop up and peek at intervals from different positions to see where they are. A small telescopic mirror - inspection mirror - is a handy item to have.
 
I nailed an active shooter at Ajo High school a number of years ago. I got behind a thick Palm tree and kept a rock flying at her in about 10 second intervals. I see the Palm as equal to the dugout for cover. I nalied her with the 3rd rock and it hurt her enough to make her concentrate on me not the kids. A Deputy Sheriff was crawling up behind her and she was so angry at me that she didn't see him until he grabbed her legs and put her on the ground. What I drew from that is that rocks are one hell of an offensive weapon and a shooter who has to duck is far less effective and one good hit can end the attack.
 
Cinder block can be demolished pretty quickly with a rifle.
Yes and no.
When you see actual structures in Recreation Facilities, they are almost always CMU. Concrete Masonry Units are economical, simple, and outdoor-tolerant building materials. This makes them ideal for municipal groups to use.

Now, an individual CMU (lightweight especially) is flimsy versus rifle rounds. It gets trickier when built into municipal structures. Those are going to be about 1/3 solid-filled with either non-shrink grout, Type S mortar, or engineer-specified concrete (typically 3000psi). Solid fill occurs where ever reinforcing occurs. Vertical bar are either #4 or #5 at 48" on center, with horizontal bar ar 48" or ladder reinforcing every other course. Engineers typically specify the bottom two courses to be solid-filled, the top two, just as a matter of course. Wall ends and doorway jambs are typically solid-filled 2 feet back full height, too.

Those values increase in coastal high wind or in seismic areas.

So, CMU wall can give some protection. And in middling predictable ways.

And, the above applies to rather a lot of dumpster enclosures, too--in case of need.
 
I gave the situation and location a bit of thought and it comes back to basic ambush tactics... with the victims on the short end of the deal. You only have two basic choices in an ambush situation that is to either E & E (get the heck out of the ambush zone) or attack - immediately. Anything else (going to ground or using the poor cover provided by the dugouts...) means you're at the mercy of the ambushing individual (or force). The only thing that saved the folks caught in the beaten zone (the open areas under immediate fire) was the very temporary cover provided by the dugouts and the immediate actions of the two armed protectors that were present at the time...

All of what I've described is counter intuitive and needs to be learned and practiced. In short the only rescue they got that day were the two armed individuals present - absent them and this would have had a very very bad outcome. Had the assaulter been even slightly more competent with his tactics and everyone of those that went to ground or cover would have been at his mercy - not a good thing at all.

When I worked the street this kind of possible situation - being caught in the open and under fire from someone with a military grade long gun... was a nightmare proposition. We taught our officers that if at all possible to use their vehicles to do a high speed retreat from the ambush zone. On foot at a baseball diamond with so little practical cover and un-armed is a terrible situation to be in. Thank heavens for the actions of the rescuers on scene that day. They were the only salvation in that moment...
 
Also an additional thing we teach regarding response in a public venue, you have got to be comfortable making long shots with what ever gun you're carrying (hence why I shoot a lot of slow fire DA when I practice with my Sig). 50 yards wouldn't be an uncommon sight line at a sporting venue, and stadium seating in a large movie theater or concert venue can exceed that. Large big box stores like Home Depot will usually be in excess of 100 yards across by the registers, allowing for extended distance engagements. For that matter standard commercial shelving like at Walmart, etc, are 15 yards in length. We teach being able to make body hits at 50 yds standing unsupported with your pistol on a static target. If you have the eye sight an 8" steel plate at 50 yds static is very doable with good technique. We would take our guys out to 100 yds with a pistol during our rifle school to give them an idea of how far out even a subject "just armed with a pistol" can be. Most officers could get hits standing unsupported on static steel in 3 rounds or less with a duty sized striker fired pistol. The Border Patrol routinely used to have it's officers shoot their revolvers at 100 and 200 yds, and even occasionally back at 300 yds, so they would have some knowledge if they ever found themselves facing a rifle in open country with only their sidearm.

At 50yd or 100 yds, unless you are the only thing roughly vertical in the area, you are probably not going to be a very visible target to the threat. While they may not be static, the majority of shooters in this situation will shoot from a static position, then move to the next position to repeat. As we've seen historically, a good hit is often enough to end the threat as they commit suicide. However as this is changing potentially be prepared for them to continue to fight on. Having something like mini-dot on your pistol can change that gun fight from a loosing proposition to a very viable one. Extended range gunfights (not shootings) tend to be settled far more by tactics, and it's on you train and be aware of what you can do at extended distance to minimize your vulnerability, and maximize your ability. Don't stay static, use the terrain, and if at all possible, don't loose sight of your opponent. A large on board ammo capacity is beneficial, as is having spare ammo.

-Jenrick
 
Yes and no.
When you see actual structures in Recreation Facilities, they are almost always CMU. Concrete Masonry Units are economical, simple, and outdoor-tolerant building materials. This makes them ideal for municipal groups to use.

Now, an individual CMU (lightweight especially) is flimsy versus rifle rounds. It gets trickier when built into municipal structures. Those are going to be about 1/3 solid-filled with either non-shrink grout, Type S mortar, or engineer-specified concrete (typically 3000psi). Solid fill occurs where ever reinforcing occurs. Vertical bar are either #4 or #5 at 48" on center, with horizontal bar ar 48" or ladder reinforcing every other course. Engineers typically specify the bottom two courses to be solid-filled, the top two, just as a matter of course. Wall ends and doorway jambs are typically solid-filled 2 feet back full height, too.

Those values increase in coastal high wind or in seismic areas.

So, CMU wall can give some protection. And in middling predictable ways.

And, the above applies to rather a lot of dumpster enclosures, too--in case of need.

Correct when we built them for the city little League we built them to last. Our were dug in rebar reinforced 3,500 psi Cement with drainage . The rest was oil field pipe ,cement block back filled with pea gravel cement!
 
Would you consider the cinder block construction dugout cover or concealment? I'm thinking more concealment, though it might afford some deflection or at least loss of energy to lighter rounds. But they do break up when shot.

Since it’s an actual dugout you wouldn’t have to rely on just the block alone. Lay flat on the floor and you have nice, dense dirt between you and the shooter.
 
The real problem with "going to ground" in an ambush situation is that the shooter is free to walk right up on you and finish the assault... That's why counter-ambush tactics are so important... Yes, you can get to cover - but you're at the shooter's convenience if no one is shooting back or doing their best to discourage the assault.

As I've already said - thank heavens there were a few armed personnel there to engage the shooter (and thank heavens the shooter didn't immediately follow up on his initial advantage) or the outcome would have been a lot worse than it was.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top