These 9mm get no repect threads got me thinking

[W L Johnson]

I've notice that some Americans seem to have a reluctance to use the metric system to describe things. Now considering how accepted the 9mm (9x19) is worldwide but here it's seems to get put down a lot so I wonder if was call the 355 (or something like that) if that would make any difference here to how some people would view it? I know not everybody feels this way.

I have noticed some people view anything using the metric system as being foreign sounding ie 9mm, 9x18, 7.62 etc... and many rounds such as the 5.56 are usually called the 223 or the 7.62x51 is usually called 308 here. Before anyone starts pointing out the difference between the 223 and 5.56 I know the difference but my point is most people will call it a 223 or a 7.62x51 a 308 no matter which one it is.

Would it change how some people here feel about the 357 if it was called 9x33mm instead? How would people view the Mustang if it was called the duck instead? It's still the same car just not as powerful sounding. What something is called does affect how something is viewed.

 

[pmeisel]

It's just old Americans, like me, that don't like metric. My sons think I'm stupid. The worst thing is working on a hybrid type automobile (like many Jeeps) that mix metric and standard fasteners, you're always guessing.

As for the 9mm, though, a lot of that prejudice just comes from the solid establishment of 45, 357, and 38 before the 9 became well known over here.

I actually think the 9 is a good round, and am looking for a budget opportunity to buy a HiPower or a model 92, but I wouldn't give up my 357s for one.

 

[pps]

If you live in a free state where you can have a normal capacity magazine of 19 or 20 rounds, what's not to like? Living here in the PRK where you can't have a capacity exceeding 10 rounds, I'll keep my 8 shot .357

I won't be dissin the 9

 

[Javelin]

9mm, 5.56, 7.62 for me please.

 

[W L Johnson]

It's not whether or not the 9mm is powerful, it's how what it's call effects people view of it. 9 sounds so much smaller than 357 even tho a 357 is a 9mm (9x33 that is). If the 357 was never call a 357 but a 9x33 would it effect your view of it. Don't discount what effect names have on people's view of things.

P.S. Yes I know the power difference between the two.

 

[JohnBT]

Let's see, 9x19 or 9x33R? Yep, .357 Mag is still considerably larger.


Then there's another favorite, the 11.25mm. Now it looks even larger.

Using metric tags might make the 9x19 look worse, not better.

John

 

[76shuvlinoff]

Can't say the negative threads are all about 9s ...
Using a 22lr will get you killed.
380s are not much better.
There's no love for 40s.
A .357 will blind and deafen you.
The .45acp is outdated.
Any 1911 or Glock just sucks .... depending on if you own a 1911 or a Glock.

 

[W L Johnson]

Using a 22lr will get you killed.

Depends on which way the barrel is pointed.

 

[stalkingbear]

The reason I cannot stand the 9mm is NOT due to it's metric designation, it's simply because it's a piss poor excuse for an defense caliber compared to .45acp+P, 10mm,.41mag.

 

[W L Johnson]

it's a piss poor excuse for an defense caliber

ok...........

The pointless/useless/endless 9 vs 45 vs 44 vs Naval 16inx50 or whatever is not what I started this for. I know some people believe the 45 has magical one shot, even if you miss them, knock them dead/back 50ft/through walls/sinks battleships/destroys planets Deathstar like power. Sorry, rant mode off...... Humans being humans, for better or for worst, their options are some times shaped by the name/label something is given and I just wanted to see if some felt if it was called 355 from the start instead of 9mm if that wouldn't change how some people felt about it. Names do influence perceptions.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

I would never disrespect the Europellet.

 

[Quoheleth]

I think, in large part, it's due to the 9mms history. It is relatively narrow across the front and - up until the late 80s - was mostly loaded in fairly-pointed, FMJ loads. Thus, with its high speed, round nose profile it would punch nice 9mm holes straight through something/one. Skeeter Skelton who, remember, wrote 20 years ago, frequently commented that he didn't care for the FMJ 9mm loads for that particular reason. While he did have a BHP that he liked - mostly because of it's high capacity - he stated he didn't have much confidence in a round that wouldn't stop a desert jackrabbit in its tracks.

Since then, and especially in the last 8-10 years, bullet manufacturers have developed the 9mm to a very good round. Modern bullet construction and design, coupled with newer gun designs that feed JHPs reliably, have made the 9mm not only viable but desirable as a controllable, affordable, and effective.

The 9mm will never be a .357 Magnum. It is what it is. I rejoice that when I reach into my safe I have a choice, and can select between excellent .45 or 9mm autos or a .357/.38 Special wheelie.

BTW withdrawn...urban legend (see below)
Q

 

[W L Johnson]

Sorry, I think this flu has made me a little grumpy.

 

[Quoheleth]

Hope you feel better, Sir.

Q

 

[W L Johnson]

BTW: the Chevy Nova was the single worst-selling American export EVER to Mexico. Why? In Spanish, it means "no go." That name was "no va" when it came to sales south of the Rio Grande. Yeah, names mean something.

Sorry, urban legend, it even exceeded its sales projections south of the border.

 

[Baba Louie]

And Now, Ladies and Gentlemen, put your hands together and give a big old American welcome to... the 36 Auto!

Naaaah.

There is, however, something unique about telling a friend you're going to go shoot your 11.25 after you pick up some more WWB.

Respect is earned. My Dad used to joke (I think) that since the 9 lost twice, naturally, the U.S. had to adopt it. It has come a long way since 1908. But that little 7.65x22 was a humdinger too... or so I read. Worked for the Swiss.

I both like and respect my 9s. YMMV

 

[MachIVshooter]

The worst thing is working on a hybrid type automobile (like many Jeeps) that mix metric and standard fasteners, you're always guessing.

Domestics are virtually 100% metric these days. The mix-n-match stuff was a headache, though. But with the big three having dropped virtually every component from the last century, all the new stuff is SI. Dodge was the last hold out, running LA blocks in trucks up until 2004.

 

[Geronimo45]

I don't know if the metric system has much to do with it... after all, Americans have had over a hundred years to get used to the name. I think it's a lot of factors... one of which is the AWB. While Evil Black Rifles sold like hotcakes once the ban was over, the Wondernine period didn't appear to pick up where it left off. Their biggest claim to fame was in low recoil and high capacity. The 1911s picked up considerably in that time.

Concealed carry laws sprung up everywhere during that time, as well - and people began to see that the big handguns weren't all that easy to tote around. They went for compacts and subcompacts - many of which hold less than 10 rounds.
A Beretta 92 holds 15 rounds, a 1911 holds 8 rounds. In the smaller handguns, that gap narrows. A 9mm may hold 8 rounds, a .45 may hold 6.
To illustrate what I'm saying, a firepower comparison:

15 rounds of 125gr: 1,875 = 4.4 ounces
8 rounds of 230gr: 1,840 = 4.3 ounces

6 rds 230: 1,380 = 3.2 ounces
8 rds 125: 1,000 = 2.3 ounces

Capacity difference in these smaller autos gives a decided edge to the .45. The extra round or two you find in the 9mm isn't as significant as having seven rounds more.

Now, if open carry starts to spread, you might see a movement back to full-sized guns - where the 9mm's capacity really shines.

 

[MMCSRET]

I worked for a Caterpillar dealer as a field service tech. Cat was very early into the metric because they market all over the world and supply parts to any cat dealer over night if they are willing to pay the freight and guarantee the parts to be right and on time. The rest of the world was metric and cat is a big player in that world.

 

[W L Johnson]

Now, if open carry starts to spread

You mean like here, Kentucky is already open carry.

I think it's a lot of factors... one of which is the AWB

I have thought about that, The 94 AWB hurt the 9 more than any other because the main advantage of the 9 (36auto ) is it's 15 to 20 round mags compared to the 45's 8 or so. But that is past history, and the AWB is dead (for now).

 

[W L Johnson]

In the smaller handguns, that gap narrows. A 9mm may hold 8 rounds,

Try a Taurus PT-111-ti , 12 rounds and only 16oz empty.

 

[Pulse]

Then there's another favorite, the 11.25mm. Now it looks even larger.

Using metric tags might make the 9x19 look worse, not better.

the metric name of the .45ACP would be 11,43×23mm, but we dont use the metric because of the comma in it.
is it that mutch biger then the 9x19mm?

 

[W L Johnson]

Can't remember where I got this..

click for larger (a little larger)

 

[MachIVshooter]

the metric name of the .45ACP would be 11,43×23mm, but we dont use the metric because of the comma in it.

Always did find it interesting how here in the US, we use a decimal point, but the rest of the globe uses a comma. Never quite understood why the comma, since the decimal point is used in every other numeric system the world over (money, for example). In the US, using a comma between two numbers designates them as separate numbers.

Not that it really matters, just always struck me as peculiar.

 

[doubs43]

the metric name of the .45ACP would be 11,43×23mm

It's interesting to note that the Argentine 1927 clone of the 1911A1 is marked 11.25mm on the slide. That works out to be .443 and is likely the bore diameter and not the groove diameter. That would make the lands .045" high which is, I believe, what they are supposed to be.

The schools I went to more than 50 years ago were teaching the metric system. I think they were ahead of the curve.

The 9mm, BTW, has been around since it's introduction in the 1902 "Fat Barrel" Luger..... or "Parabellum", pistol.