These 9mm get no repect threads got me thinking

[L42]

There is actually an all American metric cartridge, the 10 mm.
It flunked and became the .40 wich may perhaps to be considered as the best performance duty cartridge ever made.

After all it is not the caliber itself that makes a "one-shot stopper", it is ultimately how, and with what the cartridge is loaded multiplied by bullet technology. No one fires a FMJ bullet for a "one-shot stopper" today.

Remember the .38 "widowmaker".

I would say, the .40 meets the FBI criteria in stopping power, but the 9 mm can deliver in the same range and also gives the high capacity bonus in its firearm.

I believe that the actual name of the cartridges discussed here, wether it is metric or not may actually color the personal thoughts about performance.

There is after all the expression: "Have You gone completely metric?"

Best Regards
Mikael, Sweden

 

[Brian Williams]

I really like my Glock 19 and my converted 642. 9x19 out of a 2" lightweight J frame is a handful, not as easy to handle as a 38 but easier than a 357.
I would not want to have to stand downrange and try to catch one.

 

[egumpher]

Hello,

I own many pistols and I am a huge 1911 fan currently building one right now in fact. I also own 9mm's and certainly keep my Sig P226 9mm in my night stand often. From brassfetchers:

The 9x19mm cartridge comes close to perfectly balancing cost per round, weapon magazine capacity, controllable recoil and terminal effectiveness, as any handgun cartridge yet invented.

Using a bullet of 0.355” diameter, it is typical for this cartridge to be able to propel a 124gr bullet to 1200 ft/sec out of a handgun with a 4” barrel. This is slightly slower than a .357 Magnum but significantly faster than a .38 Special, using the same bullet weight. The .38 Special was long a standard issue cartridge among US law enforcement, but was largely replaced in the 1980s by the ‘high capacity’ 9x19mm handgun, like the Glock 17, which can hold 17 cartridges, versus the six-shot revolver, in .38 Special or .357 Magnum.

Much has been said about the 9x19mm being a ‘weak’ cartridge. This statement is almost certainly non-sense, but it still gets significant attention. A 9mm is ‘weak’ compared to a .45ACP, much in the same way that a 12 gauge shotgun is ‘weak’ compared to a 10 gauge shotgun. It’s all a matter of perspective : with satisfactory shot placement, the bore diameter/caliber won’t matter. However, the larger weapon can make up for borderline shot placement in some instances, with its greater inherent effectiveness.

Rgds
Eric

 

[flipajig]

re 9mm

just bought 2of them this year a ruger and a tauris up until this year i have always been a single action man. 22 single six and a superblackhalk 44 mag along with 38spc and 357mag i like the ruger 9 better than the tauris accuete and cheep to shoot when you reload. i found a site on the net and it said that the 9 had a higher % one shot stop over the 38spc both using +p amo and about the same grn of lead.

 

[Flea]

I have carried a 9mm for about 3 years now, and just this week switched to a .45ACP. At no point did I feel undergunned -- a Glock 17 with 2 spare mags gives me 51 rounds on my person. At the most common engagement ranges, any respectable weapon doesn't lose a significant amount of energy (ranges at which bullet energy loss becomes a problem, you shouldn't need to engage with a handgun anyways).

I agree with everything that has been said: the 9mm FMJ is a high-velocity round that will do a through-and-through without creating a large permanent wound channel. However, a 9mm in a respectable and proven hollow-point is a formidable self-defense round that is inexpensive, easy to manage, easy to carry, and usually comes in a higher capacity weapon.

 

[1911Tuner]

The Argentine 1927 clone of the 1911A1 is marked 11.25mm on the slide. That works out to be .443 and is likely the bore diameter and not the groove diameter. That would make the lands .045" high which is, I believe, what they are supposed to be.

Nope. The land height of the .45 ACP is 5 to 6 thousandths (.005-.006) of an inch...not 45 (.045)thousandths. Rifling that tall (.0225 per side)would probably bring a bullet to a screechin' halt within a half-inch after entry into the barrel.

DUnno where the Argentines came up with that designation.

 

[doubs43]

Nope. The land height of the .45 ACP is 5 to 6 thousandths (.005-.006) of an inch...not 45 (.045)thousandths. Rifling that tall would probably bring a bullet to a screechin' halt within a half-inch after entry into the barrel.

DUnno where the Argentines came up with that designation.

Sorry. I left out one zero. It should have read .0045" and that would make the bore diameter very close to 11.25mm.

 

[bottom shelf]

Metric system? One of my life's biggest disappointments. There I was, in the 3rd or 4th grade. (I'm going back 45 years, here) and we were learning about the metric system. I loved it, and was very excited about it. I remember thinking, "here I am, just 8 or 9 years old, and I'm going to be able to use this wonderful system for most of my life. I'm much luckier than Dad was".

Now, after 45 years, it looks like we're about 15 or 20% of the way there.

Dad (who's been dead for quite a few years) always said it "was a communist plot to confuse the American public and take over the country without firing a shot".

At lease I knew enough to keep my opinion to myself and not argue with him.

 

[pmeisel]

I dunno, I think I agree with your dad....

 

[jkingrph]

This American uses a bunch of metric rounds. 9x19, 6.5x55, 7x57 7.5x55,8x57, 9.3x57, 10.4x38R(rimfire converted to centerfire) aka 41 Swiss & the 5.56xwhatever( .223 Rem), and 10mm auto.

 

[searcher451]

The caliber is seldom as important as the reliability of the gun itself, how well the gun fits the hand and eye, how accurate the gun becomes in an individual's hand, and how readily available the gun is at the time that it's needed. That having been said, there's nothing wrong with the 9mm round -- and decades of esteemed use in both combat and law enforcement have proven the point far beyond the purview of whatever copious amounts of internet and gun board chatter we could generate here, now and decades in to the future.

 

[JImbothefiveth]

I actually prefer 9mm over .38, so I don't think that's the reason. I think it's because .40 and .45 have more stopping power.

 

[UKJ]

No matter how you dress it up, we're back to old the 9mm vs .45 debate. As 9mm has been the most popular military pistol and submachine gun cartridge around the world since WW1, I'm guessing that it's killed a whole lot of people.

As has been stated before in this thread, the popularity in the US for the .45 ACP has been long established. It is a very good round and does it's job well.

There are elderly gun writers still dishing out the same bull that being shot with a 9mm is equivalent to being stung by a bee. One way to test this theory is to point a 9mm pistol at your stomach and pull the trigger (you can use FMJ or JHP, I'm not bothered). Without immediate medical attention, my guess is that you would die.

Finally, if I were a cop and I was told that there was an armed felon behind the door waiting to shoot - it wouldn't make any odds to me if he was carrying a .38 wheelgun, a Glock 17 or a Colt 1911 - I'd be just as worried about being killed by any of these calibers.

Anyways, back on topic, no I don't think it is the metric system that has put Americans off, I just think that the overall gun community (warning sweeping generalization approaching) is usually slow to change.

I remember a time when irate American shooters were swearing they would never own one of those no good, goshdurn, tin can, Commie AKs.

 

[jdh]

Now I have a desire to go shoot some 7.62X51R out of my Marlin 336.

 

[jason97496]

I know it is completely irrational, but I have to say it anyway.
When I was a kid my dad had a Walther P38. As a kid I learned that:

1 This was a German army pistol
2 It was a 9MM
3 Germany was the enemy (who we had beat a couple of times).

I still have a hard time not associating 9MM with the enemy.

 

[1911Tuner]

I know it is completely irrational, but I have to say it anyway. I still have a hard time not associating 9MM with the enemy.

I know the feelin'. It was a long time before I could stand the sight of an AK...and to this day, the sound of one firing pisses me off.

 

[Ben86]

If you didn't fight in either WWI or WWII you association is completely irrational and probably based on movies. I wouldn't care if it was the Kaiser's or Hitler's fav caliber, it works for me so I'll keep it.

 

[JImbothefiveth]

Now I have a desire to go shoot some 7.62X51R out of my Marlin 336.

7.62x51 is .308

 

[jason97496]

It is more stories from my grandfather and a strong sense of patriotism.
If I were old enough I would have been involved in WW1 or WW2. Instead I got to help with Iraq.

 

[gottobe]

I like my 9x18 makarov.
Nice punch for the size
Comfy to shoot
ammo is cheap..

I have shot lots of bigger hand guns,357,45 (nice nickel randall), etc..
Really prefer shooting my rifles, but for quick access reliable point and shoot, my russian metric is great...

Been looking at the Tokerav 762.x25, "beast" for some added blast.. The ammo is cheap, like 22 cheap, and the surp guns are about 2 bills...
Get one on GP alone!

 

[jdh]

7.62x51 is .308

Yes it is, BUT 7.62x51R is not.

Care to try again?

American Metrics
5mm Remington Died (Not withstanding its minor comeback of late)
6mm Remington Died 243 Winchester didn't
7mm Remington Died 284 Remington didn't

 

[maksim]

Its kind of to the same extent as why do we drive on the right side of the road? Metric system actually makes alot more sense but hey... if we adopted it now, would just be one step closer to socialism.

 

[kanook]

7.62x51R is that the Marlin 308?

 

[dagger dog]

0.004" or 0.10 millimeter, it's the same distance no matter how you measure it.

Why not standardize the caliber measurement of 100 per inch, and use that for the firearms industry?

But then SAAMI and it's European counter part CIP would have to retool, and all of the past published data would be usless.

If you have been bitten by the gun bug, all of the cross over talk between metric and inch that pertains to caliber ,(there's that word again) designation seems to make sense anyway.

If your buddy says he shoots a 7.62X51 you know he's talking about a
.308 Winny which is a .30 cal Nato, thats a really awell you get my drift

 

[DesmoDucRob]

I ride a duck and carry a 9mm

I know the mentality well. Try riding an itallian motorcycle and carrying an Austrian 9mm, with die-hard Harley veterans who know that the 1911 renders all other handguns obselete. It's okay, I know when it's ok to cross a few borders for fine products.