Thinking about a .25?

[judgedelta]

Recent shooting in my part of the woods. Guy attacked a property owner and, after firing a couple of warning shots into the ground, the property owner shot him in the forehead with a .25 auto. Bullet did not penetrate the skull; went under the skin and around. Did stop the fight, however. The shootee died the next day from bleeding on the brain (subdural hematoma). I'm sure that there are exceptions, but it seems that a .25 will kill you about as fast as a snake bite.

 

[FL-NC]

I guess a 25 is better than no gun at all. Don't see why anyone would rely on one if they could procure/afford something better, though- since so many better options are available nowadays at reasonable prices.

 

[jimbo555]

Think again, if you want small, get a 380.

 

[grampajack]

Just going from gel tests I've seen and anecdotal reports such as this one, I would rather have a .22lr than a .25 ACP.

That reminds me, there was a shooting at a restaurant my family used to eat at after church on Sundays. Little gangbanger comes in and shoots the manager point blank with a .25 ACP pocket pistol. He walked away with a bad headache. I had almost forgotten about that.

 

[bannockburn]

Back in the day I use to carry a Beretta Model 950BS mainly because it was small, reliable, and relatively inexpensive. It was however not my first line of defense. That was usually a .38 Special S&W J frame of some type or another. Nowadays the only .25 I have is a Baby Browning because I have always been fascinated by diminutive guns. Have no plans to ever carry it though; that's something best left to the KelTec P3AT that I have.

 

[.308 Norma]

Recent shooting in my part of the woods. Guy attacked a property owner and, after firing a couple of warning shots into the ground, the property owner shot him in the forehead with a .25 auto. Bullet did not penetrate the skull; went under the skin and around. Did stop the fight, however. The shootee died the next day from bleeding on the brain (subdural hematoma). I'm sure that there are exceptions, but it seems that a .25 will kill you about as fast as a snake bite.

I guess it's probably been 15 years or so since my brother-in-law was shot in the belly with a .25ACP at his birthday party barbecue. It was an accident - the .25 fell out of some other relative's makeshift holster, and when it hit the patio, it went off. The bullet grazed my brother-in-laws wrist before entering his stomach, where we found out after the ambulance got him to the hospital, it came apart. We still call him "pepper belly" once in a while because that's what the x-rays looked like - like someone had sprinkled a bunch of black pepper in his belly. He was treated and released - they said he'd pass the bullet fragments "naturally." Apparently he did, because he's still vertical.
At any rate, all that .25 did to my brother-in-law was make him bleed a little, get him a heck of a lot of police and news media attention, and ruin his birthday party. I wouldn't want to be shot with a .25ACP, but I wouldn't want to shoot someone with one either. I'm too danged old to take a beating, and after seeing my brother-in-law shot with a .25ACP, I'm afraid that's exactly what would happen if I pissed someone off by shooting them with one - providing they didn't take it away from me and shove it up my you know what.
Besides, Dad taught me to shoot to kill. He taught me you don't shoot to wound. Of course he was talking about hunting, but the same principles apply.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

I never could see any reason or purpose for the 25 ACP.

 

[22250Rem]

It sure ain't the ideal self defense round; I own a 25 ACP Raven and don't plan on carrying it for S.D. unless it was my last and only choice. But when I first got it I shot a bunch of inanimate objects at S.D. range just to see what that anemic little pipsqueak would do. It actually did more than I was expecting and I was kind of surprised and have come to the conclusion that it probably matters where it hits you. It WILL penetrate stuff pretty good with those little FMJ's and from there it just depends on what they hit as they penetrate. Sure; it's not a 9mm or 38 Spl. but getting hit with one could still ruin your day. When I hear about 25 ACP's not penetrating someone's skull all I can think of is if it strikes a glancing blow, (on an angle) then it will deflect and not penetrate. Even fired from the 2.5" or so barrel of that Raven at about 5 yards they penetrate a 3/4" piece of plywood like it was a piece of paper when they hit "straight on". Bottom Line: Not an ideal self defense round but it has still killed a lot of people, which the 22 Long Rifle cartridge has also done; even though that's not considered adequate either.

 

[MedWheeler]

I like the round, and the guns I've come across chambered for it. I've yet to hear of any self-defense case in which a defender was subsequently inured or killed after shooting at an attacker with any firearm (by these cases, I'm referring to those in which the victim was targeted for rape, robbery, or encountered in a burglary, and not those in which the victim was targeted specifically for assassination.) Anyone here who has a story of a friend of a friend who shot a guy (or who was the guy shot) with a .25 will still have to admit that the person shot stopped doing whatever it was that got him shot in the first place.

That being said, I do not typically carry any of the three guns I own in the caliber, which are two Taurus PT-25 pistols (one of which is stainless) and a Bauer. This is because my Kel-Tec P32 is just as easy to carry as the first two and is chambered for a more-powerful round. The Bauer does conceal more easily, but I do not trust it to be safe in carry with a round chambered.

Unless someone truly has verified that they cannot effectively handle anything bigger for defense, there is little reason to select this caliber for this purpose.

But, I still find it an intriguing caliber..

 

[.308 Norma]

Anyone here who has a story of a friend of a friend who shot a guy (or who was the guy shot) with a .25 will still have to admit that the person shot stopped doing whatever it was that got him shot in the first place.

Ha! My brother-in-law was grilling burgers at his own birthday party barbecue when he got shot by a .25ACP. I don't know how THAT activity "got him shot." But you're right, he stopped doing it for a while. In fact, I'm pretty sure he didn't grill any more burgers at his own birthday party for at least a year.

 

[bmnloader]

I have a Raven, My wife loved it but I've always heard if you shoot somebody with one and they find out about, they'll be pissed!

 

[Kendal Black]

I had a .25, got rid of it. That way I won't be tempted to carry it.

There is actually a little more to it than that. I have become impressed by the idea that all my self defense handguns ought to work just the same way, so that I don't get confused, and there is not a whole lot else that operates in just the same manner the Beretta Jetfire I had, which by the way is quite an ingenious and reliable design.

 

[Kendal Black]

When I hear about 25 ACP's not penetrating someone's skull all I can think of is if it strikes a glancing blow, (on an angle) then it will deflect and not penetrate.

There are a couple of things at work here. One is the low inertia of the bullet: low mass and low velocity. That means the bullet more easily changes course than if it were heavier or faster. Another is the round nose of the usual bullet. Round-nosed bullets even in heavier calibers have glanced off bone. Hardball construction can only increase this tendency to skid.

 

[grampajack]

I wonder if going to a solid copper projectile would help it penetrate bone better? Does any such thing exist?

 

[Panzerschwein]

I'd love to have a little Beretta 950. Nutnfancy surely loves his and comments on how fast and accurate it is when dumping a mag into a target, almost like a little machine gun.

 

[midland man]

yep I love the 25acp just remember shoot them in groin and they will stop!!

 

[owlhoot]

I thought about buying a .25 acp for my wife but decided it was cheaper to catch a snake.

 

[Sarge7402]

I wonder if going to a solid copper projectile would help it penetrate bone better? Does any such thing exist?

Actually the best projectile for penetration is one made of lead and tin - pewter. Several years ago someone made some and tested them. They penetrated almost twice as far in any medium than hard cast lead

 

[Alte Schule]

I have a Beretta 950. Bought it 40+ years ago when I was a poor married college student. I figured something was better than nothing. A .25 will penetrate a skull though. At least a a possums skull. I tried to serve a writ of eviction (large yard rake) on said possum that took up residence in my garage. Tried for an hour to convince him that it was in his best interest to leave. He answered my writ by wrapping his tail around a bicycle frame, refusing to budge, and hissing at me. The writ was executed when my son climbed on top of the washing machine and dispatched said possum with a nice shot to the top of the cranium from about ten feet. There was no exit wound.
That being said I like mouse guns. Going to a show this weekend and will be on the lookout for one along with some other things.

 

[grampajack]

Actually the best projectile for penetration is one made of lead and tin - pewter. Several years ago someone made some and tested them. They penetrated almost twice as far in any medium than hard cast lead

I've never even heard of pewter bullets before. Isn't pewter pretty soft?

Heck, I didn't even know pewter had lead in it, but I guess that makes sense. But people used to eat on it for crying out loud! I knew this old couple when I was little that had a huge collection of pewter tableware.

 

[S&W629]

I would be better armed with a good rock..than with anything in 25 caliber

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

I've never even heard of pewter bullets before. Isn't pewter pretty soft?

Heck, I didn't even know pewter had lead in it, but I guess that makes sense. But people used to eat on it for crying out loud! I knew this old couple when I was little that had a huge collection of pewter tableware.

Pewter does not always have lead in it.

 

[.308 Norma]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pewter
Seeing as how it's mostly tin, it seems like it would be kind of light for bullets.

 

[Az-quailhunter]

Come on...you know the drill..... .380 minimum for auto.... 38 special for revolvers.

 

[bannockburn]

Not to get too far off topic but back in 1980 Massad Ayoob wrote on article on pewter bullets for Guns and Ammo's Hunting magazine.

Some info from the article:

"Pewter is a tin/lead alloy. It melts quicker than lead, it's a lot lighter, and it's far harder... In an H&G #68 mold, designed for a 200 gr. lead semi-wadcutter .45 slug, they wound up with a 136 gr. pill that screamed out of 6 1/2" Ruger Blackhawk convertible at almost 1600 fps, out of a 5" Government model auto at almost 1500."

Some problems with pewter bullets were brittleness (shattering on impact when used on steel objects), poor ballistic coefficient, and higher than normal case pressures.