This illegal infestation is out of control

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I don't agree with the numbers for China and Japan. If the Chinese are so smart, why are 2 billion+ plus living under repressive communism?

And if the Japanese are so smart, why are they the only people in the history of the world to have nuclear weapons dropped on them?
 
I don't agree with the numbers for China and Japan. If the Chinese are so smart, why are 2 billion+ plus living under repressive communism?
And if the Japanese are so smart, why are they the only people in the history of the world to have nuclear weapons dropped on them?
ROFLMAO

There is obviously a difference between intelligence and smarts. :evil:
 
This chart is very academic in nature, so a college background will be required to make sense of it.


Oh goody, someone drug out the Bell Curve guy. Now there is a credible sourse!

:rolleyes:
 
When one considers that infant health--both mental and physical--affects IQ, the rankings on the chart of Post 149 are understandable. Poor diet in infancy is common in the sub-par countries, with the quite well-known detrimental effects. Early mental stimulation toward literacy is also a factor...

I bought "The Bell Curve" when it first came out. I was curious as to the "why" of all the controversy. I'm not a statistician, so I'm not competent to peer-review the authors' methodology. I am bright enough to have some understanding of what they said. There was no hint of racism in the style of the writing, for sure. And, after all, the first twelve chapters have nothing to do with race at all.

I asked my mother to read it and critique it. She got her PhD in Psych in 1942 and taught at UT. Then a Fulbright Prof and listed in American Men of Science. Later a mental-health clinic director in Florida. Many awards and honors. Bright lady. Works NYT Sunday crosswords in ink; boredom at the simplicity has her doing that off only the vertical clues or only the horizontal clues. (Try your luck.)

She had no argument with the authors' conclusions.

As for China, they are graduating 500,000 engineers per year from their universities. That's just one data point. A question you might consider is that of how long since a native-born American got a Nobel in a science...

Art
 
I,m not sure that this thread isn't getting off subject, but heh ! it happens I guess.

Asian Guy,

I have no problem with the data - I will say I think you are not correct in two of your assumptions.

1st is that the measure of a "good" immigrant is contained within that information.

2nd is that one without a college degree will have trouble understanding it.
 
1st is that the measure of a "good" immigrant is contained within that information.

We would have to first define "good."

2nd is that one without a college degree will have trouble understanding it.

Uneducated people generally don't understand statistics, science, and rationalism.
 
Doc : ---- right on !

Asian guy:
Uneducated people generally don't understand statistics, science, and rationalism.

Education doesn't make the man , and says nothing about their character or their work ethic. A piece of paper hanging on your wall that says you attended and completed a classroom education doesn't make you either superior or right . Or for that matter - rational.

I learn something new every day and I am far from the classroom. I understand the benifits of all kinds of education, including that obtained in the classroom. Don't underestimate those who haven't a degree - they may make a fool of you.

Back on subject, I have absolutely no problem with legal immigration and no problem with the color of anybodys skin, their religion, their level of education, their ethnic background, etc. It takes all kinds of different talents to run a world, and my talents are no more (or less ) important than anyone elses.
 
and my talents are no more (or less ) important than anyone elses

So if all labor is equally valueable why are people paid different amounts for different tasks? Why does the brain surgeon make more than the ditch digger?
 
:) GG, I don't think the meaning of your question fits the meaning of his statement.

Sure, we gotta have garbagemen. That in no way means that a garbageman should get paid the same as a highly-skilled person. Pay is to a great extent dependant on one's skills, regardless of the need for any given job. At the same time, anybody who's working to be self-supporting earns respect.

Art
 
So if all labor is equally valueable why are people paid different amounts for different tasks? Why does the brain surgeon make more than the ditch digger?

That is not what was said - equaly important does not mean equaly valueable.

Art got it . Do you consider yourself less important than that brain surgeon ?

I can't do what he does, but I'll bet you there's things I can do that he can't.

The value of those skills are determined by the market - that doesn't mean we could live well in a society full of brain surgeons .

We can use all sorts of different people skills besides brain surgeons. In fact I think most of us could, and do, get through life just fine without brain surgery .

Besides - what makes you think I can't do brain surgery ??
 
While trying very hard not to have an unnecessary semantic debate, I agree that we need both garbagemen and brain sugeons. Keeping it relevant to our discussion I think our immigration policy should be skewed to favor those that have more in demand and specialized skills. I can be a garbageman tomorrow and so can most of the people I know, it's not quite so easy to find a nuclear physicists or aeronautical engineers.
 
Keeping it relevant to our discussion I think our immigration policy should be skewed to favor those that have more in demand and specialized skills.

Knowing that the original subject here was commentary on "illegal" immigration , When this side subject came about I got the feeling some thinking is along the lines of building the master race here.

I have to respectfully disagree with attempting to "skew" immigration based on particular skills. Attempts to creat a society where only the gifted (by who's standard I don't know) should be allowed in , smacks of eliteism. Nothing much aggrivates me more than a person who thinks I should have to look up to them , and nothing much repulses me more than those who look down on others.

We are a nation - not a business who is hiring particular talent. Our constitution was drafted with an attempt to make each person important, and with their rights as individuals assured.
 
Oh I don't know mnrivrat, I have only a year and half of college while majoring in the study of beaver and liquor, I'm sure I'm dumber and at least as stupid as anyone here. Hell, after all I'm just an Okie.
 
It's not about education per se--a lot of very successful Americans are drop-outs--but it is about excellence, and encouraging and endorsing excellence. Right now we have a society dedicated to leveling and soothing hurt feelings. You don't keep world hegemony--or the standard of living that goes with it--with that ethos.
 
t's not about education per se--a lot of very successful Americans are drop-outs--but it is about excellence, and encouraging and endorsing excellence. Right now we have a society dedicated to leveling and soothing hurt feelings. You don't keep world hegemony--or the standard of living that goes with it--with that ethos.

Huh? A few of those words are too educated for me, per se.
 
Knowing that the original subject here was commentary on "illegal" immigration , When this side subject came about I got the feeling some thinking is along the lines of building the master race here.
First one who implies the other is a nazi loses. Sorry, those are the rules.
 
This Just In!--illegals Not A Health Care Problem

Ah, I get it. Illegals don't use as much health care as citizens. Then again they don't pay for it, we do. No problema.


U.S. Immigrants' Health Costs Far Below Native-Born
By Randy Dotinga
HealthDay ReporterWed Jul 27, 7:01 PM ET

WEDNESDAY, July 27 (HealthDay News) -- Countering the belief that immigrants to the United States use more than their share of health-care resources, a new study finds that just the opposite is true.


According to research released this week, data suggest that the average immigrant consumes several hundred dollars less a year in health costs, on average, than the typical native-born citizen. Most strikingly, the researchers say health-care costs for the poorest immigrant children are 84 percent below those of native-born kids.


On that front, "we found a really grave disparity," said study co-author Dr. Sarita Mohanty, an assistant professor of medicine at the University of Southern California, Los Angeles.


According to Mohanty, the research team launched the study to combat the belief that immigrants take advantage of the American health-care system. "We thought there were a lot of popular misconceptions," she said.


The researchers looked at the results of a 1998 federal survey of more than 21,000 people, including more than 2,800 immigrants. The findings appear in the August issue of the American Journal of Public Health.


Mohanty's team found that immigrants accounted for an average of $1,582 in health costs per year, compared to $2,005 for the native-born. When the researchers adjusted their figures to take into account possible differences between the two groups due to factors such as age and health status, that gap widened to $1,139 for immigrants and $2,546 for the U.S.-born. Furthermore, a full 30 percent of immigrants used no health care at all in the course of the average year.


Latinos had the lowest expenditures among the immigrants; non-Latino whites had the highest.


The surveys didn't ask questions about immigration status, however, and Mohanty said it's possible they may have missed some undocumented immigrants who were too afraid to answer questions.


Researchers also found that immigrant children were less likely than other kids to visit doctor's offices or take prescription medicines. On the other hand, the children of immigrants ended up consuming more in terms of higher emergency room costs, compared to the children of native-born Americans.


Immigrant families often turn to emergency care because many "aren't aware of what's available in terms of preventive services, or they don't have access to them because of [lack of] insurance or income," Mohanty said. "There also may be fears about being undocumented."


The study findings seem reasonable, said Dr. Mita Sanghavi Goel, an instructor in medicine at Northwestern University in Chicago who studies immigrant health. However, "there is much more research that needs to be done to understand in more detail where the higher costs for U.S.-born people and lower costs for foreign-born people come from," she said.


According to Goel, there also needs to be a greater understanding of the proper role of disease prevention. "Are we spending money wisely in the care of individuals, whether foreign-born or U.S.-born? Should we providing better preventive and early health care, rather than emergency-room based care?" she asked. "We need to look at this data with a finer-toothed comb before the debate is settled."
 
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