This is illegal, right?

[stevelyn]

I suspect the sturmtruppen of the waffen BATFEces is trolling for an excuse to remain in existence. Entrapment of online buyers is much safer than going after real criminals who can actually be a threat.

 

[MASTEROFMALICE]

Not a problem. All we have to do is send a message to the seller and every one of the bidders to warn them that the sale is illegal as is. Of course all the seller has to do is take off the foregrip.

 

[damien]

The funny problem with this thing is very few people understand that it is illegal. There is a rail on that handgun. Forward grips go on the rails (intended for rifles, of course). So they say "cool" and slap it on, never knowing they are breaking the law. Which is easy to do, because no one would ever see this as being against a law. This law doesn't pass the common sense "this is probably against the law because an average person would think it should be against the law" mind test people apply when thinking about novel behavior. An average person just sees a piece of plastic intended for a rail and it never occurs to them something like that might be against the law.

I have even seen gun shops screw this up. I saw a Professional Arms (now Bushmaster) AR-15 pistol with a forward rail grip at Blythe's in Valparaiso, IN. Right on their wall, in plain view. I told the salesman that I though that would count as an AOW and he said that it did not. Next time it was gone and since then it has not reappeared. I guess they figured it out. And Blythe's is a pretty big full-service gun shop!

 

[Fletchette]

Has anyone emailed this guy to let him know he is one step away from disappearing?

It would be a good courtesy for a fellow gunny.

edit: I tried clicking on "ask the seller a question" to email him, but the page does not load.

 

[frogomatic]

I emailed the seller about an hour ago, and have not yet recieved a response.

edit: still no response, the more time goes by the more and more I get the feeling it's a setup.

 

[strat81]

I also just e-mailed him. Hope he doesn't get pinched.

 

[MASTEROFMALICE]

I e-mailed him hours ago with no response. Anyone know how to report it to Gunbroker? I may be seen as a pain but better that then the ATF screwing someone.

 

[Autolycus]

Laws like this suck.

 

[dralarms]

All he has to do is take that ugly thing off. And BTW the plr 16 is killer.

 

[Quiet]

All he has to do is take that ugly thing off.

Also he has to get rid of it.

Otherwise, it's constructive possession of an unregistered AOW.
Leaving it as is, is possession of an unregistered AOW.
Both of which are federal felony.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Otherwise, it's constructive possession of an unregistered AOW.

Only if he doesn't own any other firearm that could legally use it.

 

[Prince Yamato]

So, what if you make the second foregrip stick out the side of the gun? Still an AOW?

Yes, because it's still adding a foregrip to the gun. The "horizontal" foregrip (IE, like on a stock AK pistol) is really just a "barrel shroud".

 

[dralarms]

If I had that thing I would put it on my SU-16 and leave the plr 16 alone.

 

[Acera]

Has anyone notified Gunbroker?? Or know how to, website is not friendly in this regard.

p.s. Good Post on first page Mannix

 

[ReadyontheRight]

I sure wish there was an easy way to help the other 99% of the US popluation know how ridiculous Federal gun laws are.

You can't attacha vertical handle to a pistol forend?

Can you attach an extra-wide, very short flashlight? How about a cell phone? Or a drink holder?

It's like those old laws you hear about that are on the books, like "A person may not cross state lines with a duck atop his head."

Hmmm. Would a duck stapled underneath a pistol be considered "vertical" or "horizontal"? And could you legally cross state lines?

 

[EricTheBarbarian]

looks like a trap to me. The Batfe trying to get someone who doesnt know the law.

 

[mp510]

The seller was told repeatadly that the weapon in that configuration, unless registered as an AOW was illegal- last time he listed it on GB. GHe does know, and he still chooses to risk it.

 

[Jim March]

So...we can have legal 20" barrel handguns?



Didn't know that . Not that it'd be really useful...

 

[Jim March]

So we can run 20" barrels on handguns?



Not that it'd be real useful...

 

[fixyurgun]

I've got a FIE with a 19.5" barrel. The atf agent that did my pre-license inspection said that there was no restriction on barrel lenght for handguns. jim

 

[BobMcG]

Oh well, can't no more than warn him, and he's been warned. It's just a little strange that he hasn't responded to anyone. It seems he would at some point if he's on the up & up.

 

[frogomatic]

still no response, at this point I'm betting that this is some $#^!head from BATFE tying to entrap some sap who doesn't know the law.

 

[Daemon688]

Well some things to note:

1. No, it's not illegal to have a vertical foregrip on a pistol. You just need to jump through the legal hoops to do so.

2. NONE of us here know for certain that this is a registered/unregistered gun. Yes, it could be some trick by the BATFE but this could be legitimate as well.

3. If I were the seller and everyone on THR was e-mailing me that I should remove my listing because it's "illegal", I would probably be ignoring them too and rolling my eyes.

4. Yes, whoever wins this auction better get it legally transferred or else they'll be looking at jail time.

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

I'm confused. Why do we think this is an ATF agent? Because the auction is still up and he hasn't responded to random emails telling him it is illegal? Hm, let's look at some reason that could be.

1. He doesn't check his email on Sunday.
2. He doesn't check his email every day.
3. He checks it daily, but already did this morning.
4. He doesn't have internet access at home.
5. His internet access could be down.
6. His email could be broken.
7. His spam filters may have captured all your email.
8. This could be his anniversary and his wife told him to stay off the computer this weekend.
9. He could be deer hunting.
10. He could be pheasant hunting.
11. He might have gone out of town for the weekend.
12. He may have gotten the emails and is not responding because he'd been told not to respond to unsolicited emails.
13. He may have gotten the emails but is dismissing them as he doesn't know any of you from Adam.
14. He may have gotten the emails and isn't replying because he doesn't know what to say.
15. He may have gotten the emails and wants to call the ATF tomorrow to ask before taking down his auction.
16. He may have gotten the emails and forwarded them to gunbroker.com for advice.
17. He may have gotten the emails and thinks you're all idiots who don't know the law and deleted them.
18. He may have gotten the emails and simply not cared.
19. He may have gotten the emails and is trying to figure out what to do.
20. He may have gotten the emails and has been too overwhelmed to answer.
21. He may have gotten the emails and can't figure out how to cancel his auction.
    
    Or what seems to be the favorite option on the board despite a number of infinately more plausible options :
    
    
22. He is actually an undercover ATF agent who has launched brilliant scheme to bust both a buyer and a FFL dealer by having them unwittingly buy and transfer an AOW over the internet.

Today, Occam has a 5 o'clock shadow.

 

[hotpig]

I know it may differ from Office to office. The ATF guys that I work with on the task force are to busy with open cases to mess with this type of "ringing up business".

Every since they have been moved to the DOJ their money has been tight. One guy that I know is to be transfered to a Office a few hundred miles away. Since they do not have money in the budget this year it will be a while before he moves.