Those "finicky" AK47's.

Status
Not open for further replies.

jagdpanzer347

Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2006
Messages
744
Location
Southwest Ohio
Greetings all. The AK-series has what I believe to be a well deserved legendary reputation for reliability. How many of you have had reliability issues with an AK-pattern rifle? Gun or magazine related? Factory or kit built rifle?

I'm a big AR15/M16 fan myself and have alot more experience shooting them versus shooting AK's. However, I've always felt the AK to be the more reliable(not necessarily better) system due to it's looser tolerances and operating system. Please don't make this a "vs." thread as that is not my intention. I'm just interested in any real world issues with the AK-series.

-jagd
 
Tapered cartridge cases and lots of reciprocating mass in the bolt carrier, as well as a gas piston, are the chief attributes that make AK's so reliable. They also benefit from probably the most durable and reliable magazines of any kind on the planet. The tolerances need not be so loose, though many guns are built that way. An AK in 6.5 or 6.8 and well engineered tolerances will be a hot ticket in the future. There are some very accurate AK's out there, but you generally won't see it with poor quality ammo, handloaders and NATO calibers tend to see the most of their potential.

In the present I've experienced bad, really really bad, triggers on WASR's and SAR-1's. These can be fixed easily enough by swapping in another FCG. I've also experienced failure to feed with aftermarket magazines, the military mags all run perfect.
 
Looser clearances. There is a difference between clearance and tolerance. The AK is loose by design, not by manufacturing accident.

And I have never had a jam on my AK and I feed it nothing but cheap steel case. Actually, never had a jam on the saiga 12 either, and I have fed that some really messed up mangled shotshells I felt sure would catch while feeding. My only gripe with the AK is that it vents a ton of gas out the top and this makes suppressing them impossible, at least that is what every SOT has told me.
 
I've had one jam with a factory made Arsenal SAM-5. It was my fault. I used a round with a tiny dent in the shoulder and it failed to eject. Had to beat the bolt open.

I've had other problems such as failure to feed, stovepipes, and the hammer following the bolt forward... But all in kit builds.

Slurpy, the Russians surpress their AK's all the time. Do a search for Spetznaz or PSS and you'll find plenty of pictures.
 
All of my AK-47s have been reliable but I had a AK-74 that wasn't. It was built from the best parts, new Bulgarian kit, milled receiver, RSA trigger group, etc. I even had two well know AK gunsmiths work on it after I got it and they couldn't get it fixed so I sold it.
 
All of my AK-47s have been reliable but I had a AK-74 that wasn't. It was built from the best parts, new Bulgarian kit, milled receiver, RSA trigger group, etc. I even had two well know AK gunsmiths work on it after I got it and they couldn't get it fixed so I sold it.

Gary, did you ever attend a class at Gunsite with that rifle? I seem to remember a student with a bulgarian AK-74 kit rifle that was having all sorts of malfunctions.
 
The AK reflects the soviet attitude of "as long as it works". Soviet made equipment has a long history of being rough around the edges, if not down right crude. But the stuff has always gotten the job done. The sole exception might be the Dragonuv, which truly is a marvelous weapon.

The AR reflects the American attitude of "design something revolutionary and then refine it until it works the way we want it to". It also reflects the other American tradition of building multi-function machines and tools. While the AK is pretty difficult to make into anything but a short-range infantry rifle, the AR can be anything from a super short CQB/entry unit to a long range sniper weapon, depending on configuration and caliber. Unfortunately, this kind of versatility means the unit may not perform quite as well in a given situation as some of it's dedicated contemporaries-much like a Gerber multi-plier is not as good as dykes for cutting fence, or a 12" bastard mill for taking down metal, but one man cannot carry with him at all times the number of dedicated tools that a good multi-plier has, even if they don't do the job as well/easily. All in all, though, I (and most) would say that the Stoner design is pretty darn good.

Each culture around the globe tends to display it's attributes and shortcomings in the weapons they produce. The Italians put incredible emphasis on aesthetics, and this is reflected by the definitive "flare" evident in Italian-designed guns.

Germans tend to be a little more blah in the looks department and often surmise that if it works for them, it will work for everyone else. So they over-engineer one platform and come up with nifty ways to market it at a premium price, ignoring any feedback that the unit could benefit from alterations or improvements they didn't think of first (German engineers are definitely primadonnas). You end up with a good product, but one that costs more than a gun of comparable quality from another nation.

The Czechs seem to be somewhere between Soviet and Italian, building guns that are refined and more gracefully styled than the Russian stuff, but generally not up to par in fit and finish with Italian, German and American guns.

Aside from the GP35 and FAL, Belgium just makes really weird stuff:neener:

Most other nations seem to just build knock-off's of the aformentioned countries designs.
 
My WASR-10 came with a TAPCO trigger group installed. Actually a pretty decent trigger.

It did have some reliability issues at first, and when I disassembled it, I found out why. The inside was full of sharp edges and burrs. I had a dozen cuts just from reaching inside the thing. I took some sandpaper to it and 30 minutes later it was smooth all over, including the bolt and bolt carrier. Hasn't had a problem yet.
 
In my limited experience, the only problem I've had has been with crappy magazines, specifically Bakelite magazines in a SAR3. Everything else has fed like a champ.

jmm
 
Had a couple different M16A2's while in the Army. All suffered the occasional jam here and there. All were very accurate with iron sights and my, at that time, young eyes. Good to go out to 300 yards (meters) for numerous expert rated qualifications.

I currently have a Vector AK. It has a double hook trigger that is very light and smooth. To date it has gone just under 1000 rounds with zero jams or malfunctions of any type. At 100 yards it is deadly accurate. 200 yards I'm still gonna hit if your man size and deserving. 300 yards, well not so great. 3 out of 8 into a man size target last attempt, but that was with irons and these eyes are a bit older now. :scrutiny:

I've heard that Saiga's, Vepr's, and Arsenals are very accurate for the Kalashnikov platform. Never got to try one though.
 
While the AK is pretty difficult to make into anything but a short-range infantry rifle, the AR can be anything from a super short CQB/entry unit to a long range sniper weapon, depending on configuration and caliber.
That's pretty comical. The AK design has been adapted to do everything the AR has and more. There is everything from the Bizon, in 9x18 and feeding froma helical magazine, to light machineguns (actually fielded, no less), sniper rifles, and even a version intended to be fired under water.

The only malfunction I've had with an AK was traced to a bad primer.

As beerslurpy said, never confuse "clearance" with "tolerance". "Clearance" is planned space between parts, which may be tight or loose, depending on application.
 
After nearly 1K rounds my WASR-10 drove the primer into the casing of a round without touching it off (thank ya Lord). I'm calling that an ammo failure and I'm just going to write it off as s*** happens and slowly enjoy the rest of the 2000 rounds of Wolf ammo I bought for eight cents a round. This AK is not pretty and has just a slight bit of cant on the front sight but I consider it my first choice in a SHTF skirmish. I bought it out of admiration for the design and because it was cheap to buy and cheap to shoot at the time. The confidence I have in it came later. I'm still deciding whether or not to stay with the cheapo red dot scope and mount. It's helpful to me for fast target acqisition as a left eye dominant but right handed shooter but I shoot slightly better groups with the iron sights.
 
I built an AK from a kit. It was a Romanian piece, and I am absolutely sure it was brand new, never fired other than test round at production. It was then cut and shipped out. The Bolt and Carrier were very tight fits, and I took the time to carefully stone the rails, etc. for a very nice smooth action. I replaced the fire control group and the forend and stock with Tapco stuff, and I couldn't be happier. When I go to the range with my buddies (all AR-15 guys), I never have had a failure. While they are cleaning and futzing with the AR's I am blasting away, usually with cheap Wolf steel cased ammo. Since I completed it about 6 months ago, I have fired about 2000 rounds through it, and have experienced 1 failure to feed. Really couldn't tell what the problem was, I just cleared it and kept on going. I only have open sights, and I'm 56 years old with failing vision, but I can still put 5 rounds in a 10" circle at 100 yards. For its intended purpose, that is accurate enough. Having said all that, I just bought a Bushmaster AR-15. They are nearly as much fun as the AK, and have a lot more Ninja crap available.
 
There is everything from the Bizon, in 9x18 and feeding froma helical magazine, to light machineguns (actually fielded, no less), sniper rifles

These have no more in common with an actual AK-47 than an International roll back wrecker does with a Ford F-250. Just because a couple parts are the same does not make it a variant. The RPK is a very different gun from the '47. And what AK sniper rifle would you refer to? Just because the NDM86 has some similarities does not make it bretheren.

I am not arguing the attributes of the AK-it is a fine weapon. but the more modular platform of the AR lends itself to better adaptability. I own both and like both, but the only thing the AK ever had over the AR was reliabilty. And I say was because the bugs have been worked out of the AR-these days it is a world class combat rifle.
 
The RPK is NOT a different gun than the AK. The bizon I will give you since it is blowback operated, but not the RPK. The receiver is slightly beefier and the barerl is slightly longer, but the gun is basically just an AK with practically no changes. My milled receiver Ak with RPK mags is arguably just a short-barreled RPK.

The same could be said of the PKM and RPD, somewhat. They are the same basic design, slightly tweaked to allow belt instead of box feed. The gas piston is on the bottom and there is a different feed mechanism, but that is it really.

The dragunov is somewhat different (small differences rather than overall design), but there are a bunch of more directly releated AK sniper rifles like the Romak that show the true roots of the combloc sniper rifles. The basic idea of the AK was applied to everywhere it could possibly fit by the soviets.
 
I have a WASR-10 that will only accept hp ammo if loaded into plastic Romanian mags, or E German mags. Why? I'll never know. Otherwise, I have to manually cycle a round.

Because of this, I only use fmj in my AK.
 
"Gary, did you ever attend a class at Gunsite with that rifle? I seem to remember a student with a bulgarian AK-74 kit rifle that was having all sorts of malfunctions.""

Nope. Wasn't me.
 
Well, my friend recently got a Krebs KTR-03 that has frequent malfunctions (stovepipes?) with Wolf ammo. Don't really run anything else through it, but shouldn't matter. I finally talked him into taking care of it and Krebs should be fixing it for him soon. We ribbed him about it a lot with the AK reliability, but never was much of an AK guy to begin with and got this just because :D
 
These have no more in common with an actual AK-47 than an International roll back wrecker does with a Ford F-250. Just because a couple parts are the same does not make it a variant. The RPK is a very different gun from the '47. And what AK sniper rifle would you refer to? Just because the NDM86 has some similarities does not make it bretheren.

He was probably referring to the Romanian PSL sniper rifle. The commercial US version is sometimes known as the Romak 3. The PSL is an AK in 7.62x54R with an extra long barrel and an RPK type receiver, with the scope rail on the left side. I built one. Nice gun.

The SVD "Dragunov" is a completely differant weapon though. I mean, totally. I own an NDM-86... For starters, the SVD was built from the ground up as a sniper rifle. It was actually the first sniper rifle designed in this way. The gas piston is seperate from the bolt carrier. It has a forged steel receiver. The gas block is adjustable. The trigger pack can be removed in one whole unit. It has a bolt hold open device.

The method of operations is the same, but otherwise, apples and oranges.
 
I've never had a jam with any of my half dozen AK types (milled, stamped, pistol, 5.45 and 7.62). No problems other than the US made reciever on one of my 5.45s need a dremel to open it up a bit and the pistol's bolt wanted to jump up out of the reciever with every cyle--blackjack buffer fixed that.

My AR-15 has had a couple/three hundred rounds or so and has also performed without an issue (and is much, much more accurate to boot. and ergonomics? Forget about it--AR wins that one).

However, the issue M-16s I used in the service caused me plenty of grief. Granted, I was using blanks with the miles gear, but one time a perfect ambush in the swamps of Georgia went like this "Blam!" *chirp chirp* @##$!!...Haha, his weapon jammed. BLamety Blam. BEEEEEEEEEEP.
(In case that's hard to follow, 1) single shot and jam from me. 2)cursing from me. 3)other squad laffing and firing at me. 4)Miles gear indicating me being dead.

My go to gun is a milled 7.62x39 bulgarian (compliance parts DONT include the reciever--that's a bulgy). Not even close to being able to hit empty shotgun shells consistly at 100 yards like the AR, but the AR series left me hanging during practice to much to take it to the game. :)

I would add that the huge, meaty, he-man extracter of the AK seems to be much more effective than the stock AR type. Couple of big, loose clearance locking lugs help the reliabilty too, though I suspect that's a contributor to the accuracy issues.
 
I have an Armory USA AK (the SSR-85C2) with the thicker than usual 1.6mm receiver, parkerized finish, chrome lined hammer forged barrel...and I love it. Came with a great trigger (double hook, no trigger slap) and this gun was built tight. When I found it at the shop and looked at the other AK's for sale, there was a big difference in build quality. As far as reliability....I have had few problems with the gun. It came with one mag and I bought three more as extras. The came-with mag looked clean so I didn't bother cleaning it, the others I disassembled adn scrubbed. First time on the range with that gun, all mags worked beautifully excpet the one I didn't clean. Problem has since been eliminated. Only other prob I've run into is that it doesn't seem to like Wolf's soft point ammo. Feeds FMJ and HP all day long though.

Modifications: I added a BlackJack bolt buffer...just makes shooting it a little more pleasant. Replaced the thin pistol grip with SAW style grip, replaced the front sight with a bright orange on from Tapco and I replaced the rear sight with a peep sight from Krebs. Now, it's perfect, I love it, it's my SHTF go-to gun. Like another member mentioned...anything within 100 yards doesn't have a chance, 200 yards=man-sized silhouette is no problem, 300 yards= I'll have to send some lead downrange and do my best but expect some misses....unless I scope it.:D
 
I have a SAR-1 thats jammed a few times in about 1000 rounds. Pisses me off. Its not bad jamming, just a FTE (stovepipe) but AKs shouldnt jam.

I have a kit built 74 thats never jammed.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top