Too many unsafe NEW gun owners

[RKBABob]

I don't know if anyone else suggested this, but....

Why not print up the four rules on some yellow cards, and leave them in an area where new shooters can read them? Or maybe you can find or make a full brochure (I know, I know... why should he have to... but since the OP is so concerned about this as to start a thread, then why not go an extra step and educate at the range?)

1. All guns are always loaded.

2. Never point the gun at anything you are not willing to destroy.

3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on target (and you have made the decision to shoot).

Maybe the NRA has something available? Anyone?

4. Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.

 

[nachosgrande]

I've been thinking about this and I believe some people will never be able to accomplish these things. Maybe they could have if they started younger, but some people will always be scatterbrained. Look at my wife, very bright academically (master's degree in accounting and a law degree from Harvard), and she is incapable of having barrel awareness 100% of the time. Some people, when concentrating on something else, will forget where the gun is pointing and for some reason think if it's not pointing at the target, it won't fire. Guns are for people who can be preoccupied with a hundred other things and still maintain barrel awareness.

 

[rbernie]

I am so torn when it comes to people buying guns and having no idea how to safely use them. How do we fix this problem? If we ignore it, it won’t go away.

If I see unsafe actions at a range, I'll usually go over and help the new shooter. A smile and a pat on the back and a couple of minutes spent being helpful can work wonders. I usually soften things up with a 'nice gun!' or similar, and then explain what they need to do better.

The fastest way to LOSE new shooters (and their potential political clout) from our ranks is to either silently ostracize them or, worse yet, overtly make them wish they'd never met us gun owners.

 

[expvideo]

I am so torn when it comes to people buying guns and having no idea how to safely use them. How do we fix this problem? If we ignore it, it won’t go away.

We are a very non-confrontational society. That is the problem. We need to grow a pair and confront new (and old) shooters that aren't following the 4 rules of gun safety. You don't have to be a jerk about it, but if you see this and you don't say anything, you're not helping anybody. It is for the good of everyone that we all man up and confront bad shooters.

 

[jakemccoy]

I've been thinking about this and I believe some people will never be able to accomplish these things. Maybe they could have if they started younger, but some people will always be scatterbrained. Look at my wife, very bright academically (master's degree in accounting and a law degree from Harvard), and she is incapable of having barrel awareness 100% of the time. Some people, when concentrating on something else, will forget where the gun is pointing and for some reason think if it's not pointing at the target, it won't fire. Guns are for people who can be preoccupied with a hundred other things and still maintain barrel awareness.

I'd have to say the lean is more toward new shooters being safer, that is, if they're trained properly. Your wife does not represent all new shooters. I started shooting when I was 33. I'm 35. The Four Rules are proudly stenciled on my brain. A person at the range with bad muzzle control is like a five alarm fire to me even without trying to notice. I know plenty of other new shooters, like my mom, who want nothing more than to be instructed on the proper way to handle a gun.

In contrast, a person who has been shooting their entire life is not going to change. If they're safe, they're safe. If they're not safe, they won't ever be. Even if they know they're violating a Rule, they'll imagine themselves as somehow being above the Four Rules for whatever reason. There's no apology or second thought about the violation. It's just smug defiance.

 

[jakemccoy]

We are a very non-confrontational society. That is the problem. We need to grow a pair and confront new (and old) shooters that aren't following the 4 rules of gun safety. You don't have to be a jerk about it, but if you see this and you don't say anything, you're not helping anybody. It is for the good of everyone that we all man up and confront bad shooters.

"Confront" is so the wrong word here. Confront means to face in hostility.

"Friendly help" is better. If you feel you have to confront, you should leave the area instead.

 

[BullfrogKen]

jake,

It's not so much a smug defiance to the Four Rules as it is a lack of respect.

It begins as a lack of respect for the firearm. And it continues as a lack of respect for me when I tell him not to point it at me.


People who have never handled a gun in their lives before often have fear for it. A few of the unknown - of how it works, of how to handle it properly and not shoot themselves or someone else when they pick it up.

They learn shortly after using it how to make it work. They may not have learned how to handle it safely. And that's the danger. Knowing how to make it work brings familiarity. That familiarity erases the fear. The only way to respect what a gun will do once the fear of it is lost is to practice habits which acknowledge that respect.


The NRA does not like the Four Rules. But it is a simple way to teach that respect. They are easy enough to recall and practice that even a young person can remember and follow them.

 

[SsevenN]

I've been taking a new female friend out shooting the past 3 fridays.

On the second trip I actually started to get a little frustrated, as she seemed to be absorbing little, if any of my advice. Eventually that day, she openly swept me, finger on the trigger. (Gun was empty, but she was just done shooting, and never visually inspected the gun.

I'm trying very hard guys, and she is not specifically unsafe, but when I was swept, I had to give her a kind of ultimatum.

I pretty much explained that I liked shooting with her, and helping her learn, but she needed to pay more attention to safety, and less time acting timid.
I know that sounds harsh, but I think it was just the jump start she needed.

She is doing great after our third trip, I think the gravity of the situation started to settle in when she became more familiar with the firearm, and less enamored.

And we are both having more fun, whew!

 

[bhp9mm]

i went shooting this weekend and two guys got their after me they was shooting a xd40 and smith 9mm with no ear muffs are plugs thats not unsafe to others i just think its stupid

 

[shimniok]

I think this is an opportunity not just to educate new gun owners to keep them and us safe, but also an opportunity to bring more people onto "our side" -- we're going to need all the help we can get. I have taken a few people to the range and have always politely and persistently reminded them when they aren't following safe handling practices / range rules.

I have been meaning to take some other folks along who are total novices, so I plan to go over safety handling with them before hitting the range. I think that's the responsible way to go when bringing a newbie to the range. How else are they supposed to learn, ESP?

The public range I visit is strict on rules with generally good ROs. The range officers will chastise you pretty fast for anything from gun out of the case except at firing line or pointing gun downrange and all in between. I hope I would be willing to talk to someone who isn't following safe handling and politely set 'em straight.

Most people value life and don't want to shoot anyone and want to be safe. So I'm sure they'd want to hear it, especially if it's presented respectfully.

If someone were so arrogant as to reject tips on range rules and safe handling, I'd ask the RO to keep an eye on them. I am sure as heck not going to put myself at risk because someone is a self absorbed arrogant ********

Michael

 

[shimniok]

PS: The idea bout cards is a great one. I have printed bus cards for my jeep club thru this one place online... VistaPrint -- not affiliated other than as a prior customer. They usually run sales to where it is pretty cheap to get a few hundred done.

If you want to print up your own, you can make up your own template and post it here for the rest of us to use. I would but I'm up to my eardrums right now.

If each of us printed 50-100 cards and vowed to hand them out to newbs (hell maybe put this forum url on it too??) and/or talk to a local range or gun shop to hand 'em out, we could really make a difference.

Or, we could keep typing and griping.

 

[Travis Bickle]

They allow uncased firearms, but the muzzle has to be up at all times, actions open, and racked when you're checking in.

A public range I occasionally shoot at just recently started requiring cases as well as eye protection. Ear protection and the muzzles up rule I can understand, but in my opinion, requiring cases and eye protection is just a little bit anal. Next they'll be requiring us to wear body armor.

Come to think of it, I don't even understand why they require ear protection. I aways wear ear plugs, but if some dipsh*t wants to permanently damage his hearing what harm does it do anyone else?

Also, before anyone comments, I don't think it has to do with liability, because this place is run by the state and I don't think the government can be sued, unless it's for violating someones Constitutional rights.

 

[Steve N]

[/QUOTE]Also, before anyone comments, I don't think it has to do with liability, because this place is run by the state and I don't think the government can be sued, unless it's for violating someones Constitutional rights.[/QUOTE]

It is EXACTLY because of liability. Anyone can sue anyone for anything. Whether they can win or not is another story. States are not immune from lawsuits for negligence, etc. Even if a case has NO merit, as the defendent, you will spend time, money, aggrevation, and worry, until the case is either dismissed, or adjucated. Remember, a JUDGE sued a dry-cleaner for tens of millions because he said they didn't live up to their "satisfaction guaranteed" policy. He ruined their business. BTW, if you haven't seen it, this idiot it trying to sue them again.

As far as cases being required, it may give the operator a little more piece of mind that the person walking in the door isn't there to rob them.

 

[CoRoMo]

I didn't realize this thread was 66 days old, but oh well.

The OP only ignored the problem and left the range rather than educate the one example he listed as "Too many unsafe New gun owners", so the problem will only persist.

I don't know if he actually realized that since these new gun owners were at the range with their new hardware, they were in the very process of training. A simple modicum of advice from another shooter at the range, or a sign as has been advised is all that is needed rather than suggesting that nobody can exercise their 2nd Amendment right until they measure up to some standard of achievement.

 

[Travis Bickle]

It is EXACTLY because of liability. Anyone can sue anyone for anything.

Not true. Ever hear of sovereign immunity?

I'm not sure that they could be sued.

 

[zombienerd]

I've personally been thinking of opening a Gun store / firing range in the next few years. My solution to the "newbie" issue, is anyone who hasn't shot at my range in the past would be made to watch a 2 minute video in the side room before they'd be allowed on my range.

It would cover the four laws, misfire instructions, emergency info, etc... It would also say that if you are caught violating any of the rules, you will be warned the first time, and permanently banned the second.

I personally think all ranges should do this, it would save a lot of heartache. It's non-invasive, instructive, and even old-pros can use a "freshener" every once in a while..

"You ever shot here before?"
"Nope"
"Please head into the side room here and press play, you can go on the range after the video"

 

[Joe Demko]

I never have and never will shoot at a "public" range. my families personal 90 acres of woods in PA is where my range is and its where I don't have to worry about newbies and I trust myself pretty well with a firearm. Buy 1 acre of woods and you'll appreciate it I assure you.

Buying one acre of woods doesn't necessarily provide you with anything but one acre of woods. Unless you take the time to construct proper backstops, a plot that small virtually guarantees you are shooting into somebody else's property. Even if you own 90 acres, you should still be making sure of your backstops.
I live in Pennsylvania, too. Although we have plenty of woodlands here, in most of the state you are never very far at all from a road or dwelling. Every round you fire is going somewhere. In PA, if it isn't going into a properly constructed backstop, that potentially means it's going someplace you really don't want it to go.

 

[jakemccoy]

A video is a good idea. It can be made short and enjoyable.

My dentist was a stack of ADA videos that he can show when patients have certain dental issues. For example, the video on teeth fillings is about 3 minutes long and highly informative, better than any information I've seen on the Internet. Plus, the video is coming from my dentist. So, it has a stamp of approval. The analogy applies to gun ranges.

By the idea, this idea about experienced gun owners being uninviting to new shooters was a rarity for me. When I was new, well over 95% of the experienced gun owners were helpful when there was interaction. They were helpful and friendly almost to the point of being annoying. Their intentions were good. At the public gun ranges where I go, it seems like all the experienced gun owners understand the camaraderie.

 

[MT GUNNY]

I see alot of your kind of Problem posted. IF your so Concerned Why did you not Politely show them the Error of there ways. Telling us about the Problem didn't Help that Couple at all. Now they could end up having an Accident that will end up on MSNBC's 10 O'Clock News.

I Feel its My responsibility as a Gun Owner to Correct Someone who is making a Error, By doing so will Enhance Our "Right to Keep and Bear Arms "

 

[benEzra]

I don't know who originally said this (I think it might be Mushashi, but I'd be grateful for a primary source), but it is applicable here:


A person who does not know and does not know they don’t know, is asleep. Awaken them.

A person who does not know and knows they do not know, is a student, teach them.

A person who knows and knows that they know is wise, listen and follow them.

 

[30mag]

I went to the inauguration, and I feel exactly the way you do about gun owners about voters...
An uninformed vote is a wasted vote.

 

[mbt2001]

I am so torn when it comes to people buying guns and having no idea how to safely use them. How do we fix this problem? If we ignore it, it won’t go away.

Many men think they are genetically programmed to be great shots and gun handlers. They get annoyed with the idea of training.

Many men take pride in not having to read directions, not a good thing when it comes to firearms.

Well that is the problem... I have instructed more than a few people at the range in safe gun handling and shooting practices... Most guys on there own are ready enough to listen, with buddies or (even worse) a girl friend or SO, they become macho pig headed stubborn mules...

But I also know of a couple who bought a gun under the direction of a "family friend" who also happens to be an ICE agent... He went through this INCREDIBLY LONG "training" program wherein he made things overly complex and now 3 months after the fact advised that it was OK for them to now keep ammo at home.

Seriously...

IMO "Newb-itis" is part of the problem which is closely related to the insecurity syndrom. Fake it till you make it is a gold motto in the US today. The other problem is "Expert-itis" stemming from the much dread machismo virus... They basically feed on each other. I mean how many of us go to the gun counter to ask the "experts" there about this or that? How many of us roll our eyes when some weirdo posts here about how he used to work at a gun shop so HE knows??

It is neither simple, nor complex as what the layman or the professional think, ergo I give free advice when I am at the range to people that LOOK like they need it.

 

[wep45]

tnieto...........you did the right thing...........its difficult to fix ignorance in this country....... at the range or just about every where else

today there is a lot of rudeness and "attitude"........"its all about me" mentality

 

[Liddyfan]

Too many unsafe NEW gun owners

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe I'm being too critical of others, but lately I have felt like too many ignorant people own firearms. Before you jump all over me about rights, hear me out. I have been going to the same public gun range for 10+ years. Since the election, I have been there three times. I have never seen this much lack of safety in my 10+ years at this place. Yes, it is a public range and I know the negatives of public ranges, but the problem remains. Today there was a husband-and-wife walking up to the pistol range (With new guns just removed from the box). I believe the wife asked him where they would be shooting. He then raised his pistol up and pointed it towards all the pistol shooters (showing her where she would shoot from). This is one of the many times I've seen people bring brand-new guns out without having any sort of muzzle discipline. These people are ruining the image of gun owners.

To answer many of your responses before you even type them: Yes, I am in the process of finding a different place to shoot.

I am so torn when it comes to people buying guns and having no idea how to safely use them. How do we fix this problem? If we ignore it, it won’t go away.

Has anyone else felt this way?

While nobody wants people around that are unsafe people with guns, it's a sign that people who never had firearms , now do. Support for the hobby is growing and fresh recruits equal a growing voting block. A good sign - just remember to duck when they sweep you with a .357 at the range.

(that actually happened to me with a cocked and loaded 44 mag, beautiful girls are dangerous at the range, she whipped around to ask me a question pointing the barrel at my chest with her finger on the light trigger )

 

[Lightninstrike]

Ditto. A .lot of these folks were fence sitters before. If the election has galvanized them to get off the fence and take a stance I say we should welcome them.