Top 10 Battle Rifles
- Thread starter Molon Labe
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Foxtrot427
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^^^
Bosnia and Croatia, Afghanistan, Iraq.
Bosnia and Croatia, Afghanistan, Iraq.
The Australians have found a lot of problems with AUGs. Thye found if they got wet they didn't work. Many bad mouth the M16 in a dirty environment, an AUG is worst. Other AUG problems:
1. Tap a magazine in with the palm of your hand the top 2-3 rounds pop out of the mag. You need to clear a jam when reloading without getting a shot off.
2. The manual says you can open up the gas port if the gun jams. They didn't design this in unless they knew it would jam when dirty.
3. Gunscrubber and similar solvents will turn the magazines to gooey resin.
4. Nice idea to be able to set up the rifle for right or left hand but once you have it's not usable for people who use the opposite hand. Brass deflector on M16 works all the time.
5. The squeeze semi, jerk auto trigger is difficult to use in combat. You are going to jerk the trigger in combat and spray the area with your ammo. They came up with a fix in the safety, half way left semi all the way auto. If you're carrying the weapon on safe and something happens you are going to slam that safety to the auto position.
The Australians are glad they didn't get rid of their M16s.
1. Tap a magazine in with the palm of your hand the top 2-3 rounds pop out of the mag. You need to clear a jam when reloading without getting a shot off.
2. The manual says you can open up the gas port if the gun jams. They didn't design this in unless they knew it would jam when dirty.
3. Gunscrubber and similar solvents will turn the magazines to gooey resin.
4. Nice idea to be able to set up the rifle for right or left hand but once you have it's not usable for people who use the opposite hand. Brass deflector on M16 works all the time.
5. The squeeze semi, jerk auto trigger is difficult to use in combat. You are going to jerk the trigger in combat and spray the area with your ammo. They came up with a fix in the safety, half way left semi all the way auto. If you're carrying the weapon on safe and something happens you are going to slam that safety to the auto position.
The Australians are glad they didn't get rid of their M16s.
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270Win
Member
I also have heard poor things about the AUG... and I wouldn't have placed it in the top 10, either. A curious inclusion, definitely.
I really agree with the list Boats compiled.
I really agree with the list Boats compiled.
full metal
Member
top ten
what about the HK-G3 or G1? and also sks they seen a lot of combat.
what about the HK-G3 or G1? and also sks they seen a lot of combat.
I would have to agree with mattw on that, although the days of the full power cartridge have passed, at least for front line use.
I don't know how they could leave the G3 family out, it and the FAL are the two most widely used, behind the AR and AK.
And I group the M1 and M14 together; more like a next generation thing.
M1 carbine was never considered a MBR, more like a long barreled pistol for rear echelon groups.
I don't know how they could leave the G3 family out, it and the FAL are the two most widely used, behind the AR and AK.
And I group the M1 and M14 together; more like a next generation thing.
M1 carbine was never considered a MBR, more like a long barreled pistol for rear echelon groups.
GardDog223
Member
No doubt that the Garand should be better represented.
sixgunner455
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Quote:
"Has an AUG ever even actually BEEN in a battle?
Yes. The Aussies use it -- East Timor, Afghanistan, etc. Their SF uses the M4.
Quote:
M14 is very nice, but I don't think it has the numbers or battle history to rank it among the M1, smle, AK, etc.
You do know that the Korean War lasted almost as long as WWII right?"
Korean War: 1950-1953. M14 issue date: 1957.
The rifles the U.S. used in Korea include the M1 Garand and the M1 Carbine. The M14's war as a general issue grunt rifle includes the first part of Vietnam. No warts on it for not having been in a larger conflict, and then getting replaced by the plastic fantastic, but that's the history.
"Has an AUG ever even actually BEEN in a battle?
Yes. The Aussies use it -- East Timor, Afghanistan, etc. Their SF uses the M4.
Quote:
M14 is very nice, but I don't think it has the numbers or battle history to rank it among the M1, smle, AK, etc.
You do know that the Korean War lasted almost as long as WWII right?"
Korean War: 1950-1953. M14 issue date: 1957.
The rifles the U.S. used in Korea include the M1 Garand and the M1 Carbine. The M14's war as a general issue grunt rifle includes the first part of Vietnam. No warts on it for not having been in a larger conflict, and then getting replaced by the plastic fantastic, but that's the history.
In my opinion, this is how it should have looked.
10. M-1 Carbine and variants: Most notable for its role in Korea. Though underpowered as a main battle rifle, it was more than adequet for its intended role as defensive arm for support personnel.
9. SKS-45: While not having a particularly long front-line issue life, it has played a major role as the primary small arm used in the fierce conflicts in asia that characterized the middle part of the cold war. More recently it has seen action in the various yugoslavian civil wars of the 1990s.
8. Mosin-Nagant 1893: Backbone of the Russian and Soviet armies during WW1, the Russian Revolution, and WW2. Even after its replacement by the SKS-45 continued to serve with distinction through Korea, Vietnam, and still seen in Somalia and numerous other conflict zones today.
7. SMLE: Served as the issue rifle in several variations for the British Empire and then the British Commonwealth. Saw two world wars and numerous smaller conflicts until it was replaced by the L1A1 after WW2.
6. Mauser 96 and variants: Reliable, accurate, and effective they were the backbone of most world armies until the advent of automatic rifles after the end of WW2.
5. Stg-44: First weapon of its kind to see actual service.
4. M-16 and variants: 40 years have served to correct it's initial failings and it has matured into a reliable and deadly accurate weapon. I won't get into any debates about 5.56x45mm's issues though.
3. FN FAL/L1A1: It's not called the "Right Arm of the Free World" for nothing. Durable and the backbone of most non-communist nations' infantry for most of the cold war and in many cases beyond.
2. AK-47 and Variants: The magnificent bastards of combat rifles. What they lack in looks or accuracy they make up for with almost indestructable ruggedness and low cost.
1. M-1 Garand and varients including the M-14: Sorry, but everything to one degree or another has copied features from it. The AK got its locking system and trigger-hammer arrangement from it and the M-16 still uses a Garand based trigger.
10. M-1 Carbine and variants: Most notable for its role in Korea. Though underpowered as a main battle rifle, it was more than adequet for its intended role as defensive arm for support personnel.
9. SKS-45: While not having a particularly long front-line issue life, it has played a major role as the primary small arm used in the fierce conflicts in asia that characterized the middle part of the cold war. More recently it has seen action in the various yugoslavian civil wars of the 1990s.
8. Mosin-Nagant 1893: Backbone of the Russian and Soviet armies during WW1, the Russian Revolution, and WW2. Even after its replacement by the SKS-45 continued to serve with distinction through Korea, Vietnam, and still seen in Somalia and numerous other conflict zones today.
7. SMLE: Served as the issue rifle in several variations for the British Empire and then the British Commonwealth. Saw two world wars and numerous smaller conflicts until it was replaced by the L1A1 after WW2.
6. Mauser 96 and variants: Reliable, accurate, and effective they were the backbone of most world armies until the advent of automatic rifles after the end of WW2.
5. Stg-44: First weapon of its kind to see actual service.
4. M-16 and variants: 40 years have served to correct it's initial failings and it has matured into a reliable and deadly accurate weapon. I won't get into any debates about 5.56x45mm's issues though.
3. FN FAL/L1A1: It's not called the "Right Arm of the Free World" for nothing. Durable and the backbone of most non-communist nations' infantry for most of the cold war and in many cases beyond.
2. AK-47 and Variants: The magnificent bastards of combat rifles. What they lack in looks or accuracy they make up for with almost indestructable ruggedness and low cost.
1. M-1 Garand and varients including the M-14: Sorry, but everything to one degree or another has copied features from it. The AK got its locking system and trigger-hammer arrangement from it and the M-16 still uses a Garand based trigger.
Neo-Luddite
Member
The Garand served from 1936 until early Vietnam for the active ground forces, but was still used by the USANG and the Navy well into the 70's.
Many foreign militaries used them for years and then sold them back to our citizens or sent them back via the DCM.
There is no arguing with M-1 people. They are utterly convinced that the Garand has no peer. They will suffer the M-14 and M1a, but then gruble about 'that thing that sticks out the bottom'. They can't even imagine when the M-1's will cease to be useful. In 30 years the oldest will be 100 years old. Garand people will have no qualms about shouldering them well past that point on a REGULAR basis. They will just be re-parkd, re-stocked, re-barreled and re-gassed. They will survive when the SHTF and be used to butt stroke space aliens when they invade.
And they can (for now) be legally owned in the WHOLE of North America.
You can cross into Canada with the thing in your trunk.
No AK's and AR's in many places, but the Garand just gets a pass everywhere. Not that it would matter, but when it is your number one choice it makes life easier.
Many foreign militaries used them for years and then sold them back to our citizens or sent them back via the DCM.
There is no arguing with M-1 people. They are utterly convinced that the Garand has no peer. They will suffer the M-14 and M1a, but then gruble about 'that thing that sticks out the bottom'. They can't even imagine when the M-1's will cease to be useful. In 30 years the oldest will be 100 years old. Garand people will have no qualms about shouldering them well past that point on a REGULAR basis. They will just be re-parkd, re-stocked, re-barreled and re-gassed. They will survive when the SHTF and be used to butt stroke space aliens when they invade.
And they can (for now) be legally owned in the WHOLE of North America.
You can cross into Canada with the thing in your trunk.
No AK's and AR's in many places, but the Garand just gets a pass everywhere. Not that it would matter, but when it is your number one choice it makes life easier.
Gord
Member
I am also baffled as to the inclusion of the AUG. Obviously, the StG44 was included for being that famous "first assault rifle" - but the AUG... it was, what, the world's first decent bullpup? So what? There's the AUG and the L85/SA80 - I wouldn't say that bullpups are exactly an influential design in battle rifles.
It kind of irks me that some on this thread are fanboying for certain rifles simply because they're personal favorites, so I'll try to rationalize my opinion that they should have included the Mosin: it served Russia through I don't know how many wars and revolutions (including WWII), and even today the Finns are still using it as a sniper platform. The 7.62x54R is the longest-serving military cartridge in the world, and the Mosin has had one hell of a service life. I don't doubt that there are a couple hundred thousand of the things at least floating around in Iraq and Afghanistan along with a similar number of Enfields.
I'll close with another "what the hell?" for the AUG.
It kind of irks me that some on this thread are fanboying for certain rifles simply because they're personal favorites, so I'll try to rationalize my opinion that they should have included the Mosin: it served Russia through I don't know how many wars and revolutions (including WWII), and even today the Finns are still using it as a sniper platform. The 7.62x54R is the longest-serving military cartridge in the world, and the Mosin has had one hell of a service life. I don't doubt that there are a couple hundred thousand of the things at least floating around in Iraq and Afghanistan along with a similar number of Enfields.
I'll close with another "what the hell?" for the AUG.
Don't Tread On Me
Member
My list.
10 - G3
9 - SKS
8 - Sturmgewehr 44
7 - Mosin Nagant
6 - SMLE
5 - FN FAL
4 - Mauser K98k Carbine
3 - M1 Garand
2 - AK Series
1 - M16 Series
10 - G3
9 - SKS
8 - Sturmgewehr 44
7 - Mosin Nagant
6 - SMLE
5 - FN FAL
4 - Mauser K98k Carbine
3 - M1 Garand
2 - AK Series
1 - M16 Series
Surplussoldier
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- 57
Another thing about Canada. Here, Garands can have 8-round clips, whereas the law restricts almost all other semi-auto rifles to 5 round magazines, including the M1A. Imagine how that would affect the M1 vs M14 debate were it the law in the U.S.
Neo-Luddite
Member
I've read about that situation in Canada with the clips (the Enfield was exempted, too). I believe the Garand is also not on the 'restricted' list in Canada too. Now I won't say anything more.
The ammo the thing eats is also leagally non- AP even if it *IS* AP BATFE rules here in the states. Not a big deal, but a perk.
Although the 10 rd BS here in the states will come and go, many weapons are banned in large cities and states by type. In Cook Co. (Chicago) IL even
the M-1 Carbine and AR-10 are now completely banned. So is the Aug, AK, m-14 and most of the BR list. No one will ever be charged under the law, but I digress.
I'd love to know what the AR-10 could have done in a number of situations.
The ammo the thing eats is also leagally non- AP even if it *IS* AP BATFE rules here in the states. Not a big deal, but a perk.
Although the 10 rd BS here in the states will come and go, many weapons are banned in large cities and states by type. In Cook Co. (Chicago) IL even
the M-1 Carbine and AR-10 are now completely banned. So is the Aug, AK, m-14 and most of the BR list. No one will ever be charged under the law, but I digress.
I'd love to know what the AR-10 could have done in a number of situations.
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