tough situation

[Chemistry Guy]

I have a friend from high school (we are mid 30s now) that is a disabled marine (hearing damage). We have recently reconnected and started hanging out, and I have noticed that his XD 9mm never leaves his hip. It is concealed, but I, and presumably anyone that is looking, can tell.

The problem is twofold. First, he carries it in "forbidden" places such as sporting events, schools, and bars, and I am worried that he will get into legal trouble. In addition, his hearing loss has resulted in him becoming somewhat jumpy in the presence of loud noises. When the drums kick in during a live music performance his hand goes to his hip.

I would hate to see the guy get into any legal trouble, but when I casually mentioned this to him he was very defensive. Apparently his wife is pretty worried about it as well, as they have two young kids, she doesn't work, and his job is fairly high profile and could be in jeopardy if he faced firearms charges.

My natural response is to mind my own business, but I know I would feel terrible if an avoidable situation developed. He does know the law, and his argument is that he would rather face legal consequences than be a victim. The only thing I feel comfortable doing at this point is making sure that when he is hanging out with me that we avoid illegal situations or at least high risk legal situations.

Anyone ever face a similar situation? What are the pros/cons of continuing to mind my own business, and what if any, action would a responsible friend take if any?

 

[mdauben]

Sounds like both you and his wife have pointed out the problem to your friend and he has chosen to ignore your advice? I'm not sure there is really that much more you can do. He's made an informed choice (wrong as it might be) to ignore the legal restrictions of his CCW.

 

[303tom]

If he is a friend, just tell him about it...............

 

[Snowdog]

Lead by example. If you both are attending an event or patronizing a venue where carry is forbidden, conspicuously (to him) secure your firearm in your vehicle.

Otherwise, you can only lead a horse to water I suppose.

 

[Tinpig]

He sounds a lot like myself in 1969...functioning, but part of me still somewhere else, and not always thinking straight.
He may well have PTSD. You'd do him a favor if you could steer him towards counseling. I chose to go it alone and made some very bad decisions along the way. Those bad decisions will be compounded exponentially by firearms.
Don't give up on him.

Tinpig

 

[RaceM]

Yup, been there too. Get this man into counseling if you can. Wish I'd have done it back in the day, would have avoided a lot of problems.

 

[hso]

Vet counseling sounds like it would be of benefit.

 

[Ranger Roberts]

He sounds a lot like myself in 1969...functioning, but part of me still somewhere else, and not always thinking straight.
He may well have PTSD. You'd do him a favor if you could steer him towards counseling. I chose to go it alone and made some very bad decisions along the way. Those bad decisions will be compounded exponentially by firearms.
Don't give up on him.

This^^ sounds like me a few years ago. Thankfully I had a support system in place with a wonderful wife and a few buddies that went through the same things I did. Don't give up on him! It's a long hard road, but he can get through it, a lot of us have.

 

[doc2rn]

As said above he needs to be around like minds. Get him into counselling if you can, but above all avoid situations and places that would put him at legal risk.

 

[Al Thompson]

Strangely enough, in this electronic day and age, a hand written letter means a lot. Don't mention the wife, but I'd suggest getting a sheet of paper and writing your thoughts down would mean a lot to him.

There are a bunch of us who were in the sandbox (me, Iraq '08 - '09) who are firm believers in counseling.

 

[Texan Scott]

I hear you describing a lot of fear, and passive- aggressive expression of anger toward authority. Please do not give up on your friend- he needs support from people who love him, and counseling. BTDT, yeah.

 

[EBK]

"....and his argument is that he would rather face legal consequences than be a victim."

Sounds like his mind is made up. Cant say I blame him either.

All of those no carry zones are the most likely place to need one. As history has shown those places are always chosen for the "mass shootings" due to the fact no one is packing except the guy who wants to kill everyone.

I have come to the conclusion that places that bar CCW are also places that are bad for people. EX: Bars, courthouses, banks, schools (education is great just not what they teach currently) and so on. JMHO


ETA

This guy clearly states he refuses to be a victim and your suggestion is counselling?

He doesnt do it because he is afraid of the boogey man or aliens or any onther nonsense, he clearly stated he does it because he refuses to be a victim of the rampant thuggery that happens on a daily basis mostly in "gun free zones" Those that disagree say he must be crazy..... I respectfully say your the ones who need some inward reflection. as for hearing loud noises and going to the hip automaticly, the mans half deaf and used to having mortars and rockets fired at him cant blame him there either.

 

[Texan Scott]

I hear you describing a lot of fear and insecurity, as well as dangerous passive- aggressive expression of anger toward authority. Please do not give up on your friend- he needs support from people who love him, and counseling.
BTDT, yeah.

ETA: EBK sorta had a point... your friend might be better off avoiding large, loud, crowded places anyway... especially if alcohol is served. Keep it low- key, go easy.

 

[Chemistry Guy]

Thank you all for your input. I had a productive conversation with his wife this evening.

 

[EBK]

"aggressive expression of anger toward authority"

Not sure how a quiet act of defiance equals that but okay.

Now if he did what he is doing and went in yelling about it and how no one will do anything then you may have a point.

Right now all I see is a peacefull protest to absurd laws, and some one who is jumpy from having people try to kill him in a foriegn country for the last however many years.

Please thank him for his service for me.

 

[Trent]

Everyone makes their own decisions, and has the right to do so.

If he's aware of the consequences, and willfully chooses to ignore them, then he is functioning at capacity. It's his right to make decisions, good or bad.

You've done your part and informed him - nothing more can be done.

 

[TennJed]

".


This guy clearly states he refuses to be a victim and your suggestion is counselling?

He doesnt do it because he is afraid of the boogey man or aliens or any onther nonsense, he clearly stated he does it because he refuses to be a victim of the rampant thuggery that happens on a daily basis mostly in "gun free zones" Those that disagree say he must be crazy..... I respectfully say your the ones who need some inward reflection. as for hearing loud noises and going to the hip automaticly, the mans half deaf and used to having mortars and rockets fired at him cant blame him there either.

That is the reason why counseling may be a good idea. He is not still in the a place where mortars going off are comman place and may need help adjusting to it. No shame in that. If you will read the post above a lot of brave vets are suggesting it. They are most likely the ones on this board whose opinion should be regarded the highest in this thread. What he has done is one of the bravest things a human can do. No offense but you come across as someone who has labeled counseling in a negative way, like it is shameful. How much do you actually know about therapy? There is nothing macho about about avoidance and uneducation

 

[Texan Scott]

EBK, passive- aggressive expression of anger toward authority, in which the actor does something that causes negative consequences to themselves, imputing justification and victimhood to themselves, and guilt and malice to the object of their anger.

When it manifests as an unconscious motivator, it's worrisome, because repressed anger may become explosively violent anger that harms self or others. I've known too many of our guys that have screwed up and/ or tried to end their lives like this to NOT say something if I think it might - even MIGHT - warrant saying.

If I'm wrong, at least it's out of concern.

I think I'm done with this one.

 

[Apachedriver]

All I'll say is if you haven't been in combat, you won't understand what he is going through and, therefore, misdiagnose it and move on your way. There are many reactions that result from exposure to combat...some are subtle, some are long term.

This has nothing to do with disrespecting an individual or his rights. It has everything to do with brothers looking out for brothers. What you're seeing is warriors from one generation reaching out to those of another.

 

[9MMare]

I'm with those here suggesting counseling if you can convince him...and thank you for sticking by your friend.

Two suggestions:

--re-emphasize the affects those 'legal consequences' would have on his family, esp. his small kids.
--see if you can convince him to carry/use other SD tools instead of guns in the places where guns are not legal. Appeal to his skill level and experience and even his ego. He is the experienced military man, he has the upper hand in so many situations.

Honestly, with a family to consider, it sounds like he doesnt really recognize the true impact of the consequences he may face.

 

[9MMare]

"aggressive expression of anger toward authority"

Not sure how a quiet act of defiance equals that but okay.

Now if he did what he is doing and went in yelling about it and how no one will do anything then you may have a point.

Right now all I see is a peacefull protest to absurd laws, and some one who is jumpy from having people try to kill him in a foriegn country for the last however many years.

Please thank him for his service for me.

Bold: What? Since when will that ever hold up in a court of law or even be an excuse for the behavior? Being a vet doesnt give you a green light to do that. We are talking about trying to help a man deserving of help. However justifying his breaking the law does not help him nor would it alleviate any consequences of his actions.

Can I do heroin privately and peacefully and that's ok? Can I carry my gun into a federal courthouse, peacefully, and that's ok?

Not only will he pay the consequences, so will his family. And I'm sure he doesnt want that.

This is a military man that knows the value of authority. If he is ignoring it so blatantly now, he is confronting alot of conflicting emotions. And yeah, is probably angry....but it sounds like it's more at society...coming home to crime and social ills...than authority. To still not feel safe.

Just IMO.

 

[EBK]

Everyone makes their own decisions, and has the right to do so.

If he's aware of the consequences, and willfully chooses to ignore them, then he is functioning at capacity. It's his right to make decisions, good or bad.

You've done your part and informed him - nothing more can be done.

This.

And no I dont look down on counseling when its needed however I dont think someone needs it for refusing to be a victim and taking well thought out risks to prevent it.

He may need some for being jumpy as he may have issues there. I dont know the man, however from what is described he has made a well thought out decision to not be a victim and accept any legal consequences involed.

All the best of luck and hope all turns out well.

 

[BADUNAME37]

You may get dragged into a situation, as I believe it is a felony to not report a known felony. You know this is illegal and you realize it is a felony when he is carrying in certain places, yet you are not reporting him to the proper authorities, which I can totally understand.

I guess the question you need to ask yourself is, if he is performing felonious acts of which you are fully-aware, can you be arrested if something happens to turn in an ugly direction while you are with your friend?

You don't need to answer to me, just ask yourself the question then act accordingly.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

you are a good friend to care about your buddy


arfin greely had a quote about what constitutes a friend and it fits here

 

[d2wing]

As a fellow vet, I strongly agree that he needs to get in a program for vets with PTSD. Not that he is wrong to carry a gun. The need to carry one will weigh on him.