TSA "Selectee List"

[nucstl1]

The system in place for extra screening is arbitrary at best. I fly about 150k a year for work and on several ocassions I have been picked out for additional screening while people I know are of ME origin pass by. A few times I have gotten the SSSS on the boarding pass and other times the Oppenhiemer with the wand asks me to step aside....Personally, I think the screeners need to speak english at all times unless assisting a traveler. Aside from the computer profiling done, the screeners or airline agents need to profile for folks fitting the profile of trouble makers and terrorists...Not grandmas and little kids.

 

[MiGalley]

First, adams020604? As per your admonishment, hope that your supervisor(s) does/do not lurk in the shadows of these boards. Perhaps we've some unresolved sensitivity if not anger issues, here? This posting is about a process, not a person--and especially not about you or your beloved institution. I am eternally grateful that my personnel are not vehemently loyal, as there exists a very real danger in that. The pages of history are littered with stories of the rabidly fanatical self-defeated. I'll take a single dissenter who causes me to stop and re-examine my beliefs and allegiances over a room full of dedicated groupthinkers any day. May God and a good therapist be with the "other type" and those who must work with him/her.

(Now, what's that old saw about "when you find yourself at the bottom of a hole, a shovel is not your friend? . . .")

I work for TSA here in atlanta, and I would like to defend what we do. First, I would like to answer a question. Did you have a one way flight?,Did you have any connecting flights? Did you purchase your ticket last minute? Did you purchase your ticket with a corp credit card. Did your license expire? These are some of the things that make your a selectee. So before you go bashing TSA be aware of who you have on the board.

(sigh)
Oh, adams020604. You are indeed a dear. Thank you, for that. Really. You have made not only my day but my case as well. Kudos.

Oh. For Jungle! As an airline pilot you know as well as I do, that as a person who works for the public; as hard as we work to keep the traveling public safe, why should we have to endure the same crap from pilots who are to fly the plane. I must admit I have met some pretty cool pilots along the way, but I have met some jackasses as well. So please understand where we come from, before you make your comments

Hmmmmm. . . . What is protocol for dealing with the attempted highjacking of a thread? But I digress.

Mein Uberscreener? I honestly do not feel that the TSA has in any way made my time aboard an aircraft any more secure. Case in point:

why should we have to endure the same crap from pilots who are to fly the plane

(Geeeeeeeeeze . . . who died and made you "soup nazi?") Pilots do go through what is in my humble opinion some pretty rigorous training--coincidentally, my little brother is an Annapolis grad and former P-3 pilot of many years (FLY NAVY!). No offense intended, but I'll gladly go up with the worst of his classmates at the stick before I'll do the same with the best of TSA screeners. A white shirt and badge don't quite instill in me the same level of confidence as a set of wings. Just curious, adams020604, but what is the TSA Academy's equivalent to "Double-E?" The TSA does have an academy, right? The TSA does have a course that separates the sheep from the goats, right?

Not to bash TSA, but as an Airline pilot I've just about had a snoot full of your poorly trained people, amazingly incompetent policy, lack of real security measures, ham handed searches, lack of respect for the public, the Airlines and everyone who works for a living.
I mean that in the kindest way, but your group isn't exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer.


I can see the TSA love building already, I'd tell you what I really think, but this is a family site.

Finally: Dear Jungle,

I thank you and each every pilot and crewmember who has gotten me from here to there and back again. Ultimately, I literally place my life in the hands of the pilots and crews who fly the planes, not the ticket agents and TSA screeners. Your skills, training, and abilities have taken me up and brought me back down--SAFELY--countless times. I've logged 100s of thousands of miles and spent many, many hours in flight.

Pilots have made it possible for me to do this.

Thanks. Just thanks.

MiG

 

[Jeff White]

Adams020604 said,

Please take a step back and walk in the thousands of men and women that are well trained to protect you before you get on your flight and those flying over-seas after you get off the plane

Perhaps you'd like to summarize your training program for us? How many hours of criminal law and constitutional law do you get? How many hours of training in interview techniques to recognize deception? How many hours of threat awareness?

In most states it takes a minimum of 400 hours training in many different subjects to be a rookie police officer and anywhere from 2-8 months in a field training program before you can work on your own.

So how does your training stack up? What are the selection critera to get hired? Physical agility test? Written aptitude test? Psyhcological screening? Background investigation? Polygraph test?

The TSA is the reason I don't fly any longer. I no longer have the tolerance for stupidity I used to have. I've spent my entire adult life working real security issues in Army combat arms and in law enforcement full time since I've retired from the Army.

Let me tell you what I've observed in the airports since TSA was created is what we used to call eyewash in the Army. In other words, it's a bunch of measures that are absolutely ineffective, but are designed to fool the American people into believing that the government is doing something to make air travel safe.

The TSA is nothing but a useless drain on my tax dollars. I regularly contact my congressman about how fiscally responsible it will be to disband TSA.

Jeff

 

[real_name]

I used to fly EL-AL, the Israeli airline, back in the late '80s/early '90s.
Now they had real security screeners. Everyone (yes everyone) who wasn't an Israel citizen was interviewed and had their bag searched, then several members of the team (picked at random) that did the security would have to board the plane. This was for two reasons, that the plane had an onboard security presence, and so that the team would actually do the job of screening as they knew they might be on the plane and would be going down with it if they let anyone through.
EL-AL flights always had a two hour check in, but along with Aer Lingus were widely regarded as the safest planes in the sky.

I guess what I'm saying is, if you are going to do it at least do it right.

 

[MiGalley]

on several ocassions I have been picked out for additional screening while people I know are of ME origin pass by. A few times I have gotten the SSSS on the boarding pass and other times the Oppenhiemer with the wand asks me to step aside

So, nucstl1 (a fellow Geordie?), do you get "the treatment," in one form or another, every time you fly?

In that my job requires frequent air travel, I'm curious as to whether being on the list is as 'forever-and-ever-and-even-after-that" as it sounds. I am in no way willing to send the required documents to the TSA for further evaluation of my status. I mean, sheeeeeeee-EEEEEEESH! Look what they've managed to do to me with just the relatively limited amount of data they have!

Once they have my home address, SSN, birth cert, voter's registration, passport, and the other info they request to vett my good name, it's only a matter of time before the night comes when scores of white-shirted grim-faced "Tuh-SAhs" go "WACO" on my kids' bedrooms.

(I mean after all, it is no secret that when Jack Bauer needs help, he calls the TSA.)

MiG

 

[walking arsenal]

if you guys could help by just assisting us by just going through the motions, the quicker you cooperate the quicker you get to were you need to be.

If you guys could help by just assisting us by wearing these yellow stars, the quicker you cooperate the quicker you get to were you need to be.

Sound familiar


WA

USAFA, security, Criminal justice major

 

[jungle]

MiG, Thanks for the trust and confidence and thanks for your well reasoned and written post. Were it not for the waste and tragedy, we could all enjoy the pure comic relief of Thousands Standing Around. Good luck with your venture.

 

[MiGalley]

I used to fly EL-AL, the Israeli airline, back in the late '80s/early '90s.
Now they had real security screeners. Everyone (yes everyone) who wasn't an Israel citizen was interviewed and had their bag searched, then several members of the team (picked at random) that did the security would have to board the plane. This was for two reasons, that the plane had an onboard security presence, and so that the team would actually do the job of screening as they knew they might be on the plane and would be going down with it if they let anyone through.
EL-AL flights always had a two hour check in, but along with Aer Lingus were widely regarded as the safest planes in the sky.

I guess what I'm saying is, if you are going to do it at least do it right.

I had the same experience. The Israellis set the benchmark long ago. I have rarely felt as safe and secure as when I was "in the custody" of the IDF.

I recall a simillar experience flying out of de Gaulle years PRIOR to 9/11. Paras in full battle dress, the works. EVERYONE and EVERY THING was scrutinized. No one complained; everyone cooperated. Life was good,

And therein lies the rub. The current US situation is one in which the TSA rides roughshod and subjectively over not only civil rights but safety. It would be laughable were the impending consequences not so frightening.

Agreed: DO IT RIGHT, or don't do it all.

Assume everyone is a risk, run everyone throught the chute, and treat each and every passenger the same. No one can rightly claim any kind of discrimination. End of discussion.

I have long stood with those who judge the TSA little more than a feel-good measure, and the more I think about it--and as this thread grows--the more I am convinced that the TSA has accomplished its mission: yet another flyer has has joined the ranks of those who simply don't fly any more.

I am that flyer.

And THAT, my fellow Americans, is just plain sad.

MiG

 

[Lupinus]

yep, singling out middle america sure makes me feel safer that average joe and grandma with knitting needles are singled out for search.

 

[NukemJim]

I work for TSA here in atlanta, and I would like to defend what we do.

I'm sure you would like to defend what you do. Unfortunetly except for the screening for explosives what the TSA does is indefensible.

Yes, every TSA agent I have dealt with has been polite, I must agree with you on that point.

Now if you want to talk about competentcy that is a different story. By the way how did Ted Kennedy get on the NO-Fly list? and isn't true that for the first 2-3 years of TSA existence it was still using the computer program that was designed to look for hijackers not terrorists, and please please please explain to me why you will let me take 4 packs of matches on board but no lighters. (By the way I do pyrotechnics profesionally and would love to know of a fuse type that can be lit by a lighter and not a match) Oh and by the way when TSA decided to search my 76 year old mother in the wheelchair ( No complaints about searching her by the way.) why did they not bother to search her wheelchair and why they refused to search me when I tried to stay with my mother ?

9-11 was a one-trick pony. it worked once. Did you happen to hear about United Airlines Flight 93? It was in all the papers. It's the passengers that provide the safety against another 9-11. (Also hopefully armed pilots as well) NOT TSA. Just in case you have not heard knives are made out of materials besides metal like obsidian, plasticand glass. The one time I was patted down (out perhaps 50 boardings) if I had placed the weapon in my crotch it would have been missed. Let alone if it was inserted uhmm.. elsewhere.

Sorry dude I will give you politeness but as far as usefullness, compententcy, or ability to stop hijackers/bombers no way.

The above is onlly my opinoin and as always I could be wrong. But I REALY REALY doubt that I am wrong this time.

NukemJim

 

[444]

I can top any airport security story.

I work as a firefighter/paramedic.
I responded on a call to the airport (in a fire truck).
Somebody spots my Emerson Commander clipped to my pocket. They began lecturing me about how I can't take that into the airport.
I told them, no problem, I will put it in the compartment with the axes and chainsaws.

Don't let this get out, but inside our jump bags, we carry....................sissors.

 

[MiGalley]

I can top any airport security story.

I work as a firefighter/paramedic.
I responed on a call to the airport (in a fire truck).
Somebody spots my Emerson Commander clipped to my pocket. They began lecturing me about how I can't take that into the airport.
I told them, no problem, I will put it in the compartment with the axes and chainsaws.

Don't let this get out, but inside our jump bags, we carry....................sissors.

LMAO!

I will apologize for that. Not as or on behalf of a/any TSA "employee," but rather as a rational, thinking, human being. There just isn't any excuse for what you experienced. Let us hope and pray that incompetence is not genetic; let us hope and pray that incompetence and impotence are synonymous.

(Dorothy and crew a la Wizard of Oz, dressed in TSA uniforms)
"Chainsaws. Axes. Halligans. Oh my! Emersons’. Axes. Chainsaws. OH MY! Helmets! Hoses! Scissors! OH MY!"

(The "old man" was a career firefighter; God bless him, you, and each and every one like "youse guys." Amen. And, amen. You are a breed apart. )



(sigh)

MiG

 

[444]

I shudder to think what would happen if someone wigged out with a pike pole

 

[MiGalley]

Good news! I checked, and pike poles are NOT on the TSA's "you may not" list.

(he, he, he, he, he. . . .)

Ventilation? We don't need no stinkin' ventilation!

MiG

 

[nucstl1]

So, nucstl1 (a fellow Geordie?), do you get "the treatment," in one form or another, every time you fly?

Mig:
Treatment is completely random. I fly American or a partner 100%. I am an executive platinum, so from the Airline, I get treated like one of their best customers, both on and off the plane. I have been dinged at the counter flying First, Business, and Coach, on Domestic and International flights. Not sure how you get on the "uh oh" list, but it's only a minor inconvenience. When traveling to places like China, you have to send the Chinese Govt a picture with visa applications, and letter stating your buinsess. Visa is for exact amount of time stated in the visa request. You could spend an extra hour each way just in the customs process. I figure, if any govt agency of any country really wants my information, they can get their hands on it. I will say, the Customs interviews in Singapore and China are probably the most extensive, and ocassionally Chicago. Can't wait for my next trip to China....I will have a new passport as my current is about full...I'm sure that will cause some extra hassle inbound to Shanghai.

 

[MiGalley]

I will say, the Customs interviews in Singapore and China are probably the most extensive, and ocassionally Chicago

Hmmmmm. . . .

This was my first trip into/out from ORD in a few years.

Perhaps this/mine/ours is just a Chi-town thing? I have flown domestically and abroad many, many times, but I have never before been given the tap to go to the corner.

Still, as I undrestand it, an intel or LE agency places one on the "SSSS" list (justifiably or, as in my case, otherwise), and once on the list, one is there to stay.

Quite frustrating, that. :banghead:

Thanks,

MiG

 

[gtodan]

Homeland Security uses computers.............

the Nazis used the Star of David.

 

[bogie]

You know, the really fun thing is that we really don't need the TSA.

What do you think is going to happen the next time some idjit gets on an airplane full of people, and whips out a 1.5" long razor blade, and announces that he's going to have the thing change course?

The passengers won't need weapons. And he won't be coming off the plane in one piece. I think the only reason that the shoe bomber made it off alive was that they thought he was nuts.

The TSA is feelgood BS, and the only result of its existance is that we now have a large percentage of our population used to being searched.

 

[pittspilot]

I ,once again last weekend, was not given a second glance by TSA despite my age and faintly middle eastern appearance (Irish, Portuguese and other mixes actually) whilst the seasoned citizen right behind me was once again strip searched.

I have also noticed that TSA has also become less polite, and more inefficient.

I work with airports. You should hear the stories about TSA. Airports want efficiency, but TSA blocks them at every turn.

TSA = Thousands standing around.

 

[crashresidue]

Cheers,

I'm not sure being on that list is permanent. I fly "one way" and declare firearms each time. For the first couple of years I, too, got the "S"'s on my ticket and the "personal attention" that went with it.

After one confrontation with TSA about me just handing them the keys to my luggage and firearm's cases for inspection while I waited in the lobby, I seem to be off the list. Well, that and the "Zippo" incident in B'ham.

For the last two years, I e-ticket, pay by cc, declare my weapons and go through standard searches.

What p*sses me off is the 'female' agent groping my wife by rubbing her breasts with "only the back of the hand" to check the underwire bra she's wearing.

I've told my wife, the next time, just pull up her blouse - if TSA chooses to file "public indecency" charges, we'll make them a public laughing stock in the papers - nation wide.

Personally, I find them to be polite, inept, dangerously under trained, but finding a sense of humor - somewhere in that boondoggle of BS that is our proud federal government.

Gentle winds,
cr

 

[Manedwolf]

I think the most egregious *** about TSA I'd seen recently was a soldier who was put on the no-fly list because he had gunpowder residue on his boots...on a flight home from IRAQ!

They tend to, you know, use that stuff in WARS?

 

[Kharn]

MiGalley:

My wife purchased my ticket online (via the airline's Website) with her credit card, a month prior to our flight.

That's most likely your problem. Is your wife's last name the same as yours?

For my first year, my employer purchased our tickets from a travel agent using a centrally-billed account, so none of our names were on the purchase records. I was given the "special" search every time I flew until we transistioned to issuing every traveler a credit card and billing their flight to that card. Now its only every second or third flight, especially when I have wacky flight arrangements.

Adams020604:

But before you make those comments answer me this, how many of you actually come to the airport with piss poor attitudes, or feeling as public servants that we have to do whatever you tell us to do.

From what I've both experienced and read, many of the selectees are public servants, since they have to fly for their jobs, and there's no procedure/mechanism in place for a civil servant to complain to the TSA. Or thats what I was told by the screener that was a little "too friendly" regarding the family jewels during a patdown.

tanksoldier:

If I get selected, I'll be searched every time I fly for the rest of my life????!!!

There are several TSA forms you can fill out that will get you off the CAPS list. My coworker said it was a total pain in the butt, but it was worth it for her (since she is a very nice looking ~24yo blond girl and she felt that the female screeners were arguing over who got to pat her down every time she flew).

Kharn

 

[Tory]

Communication problems

"Some of you I can understand you frustrations, others I can barely understand."

Given your fractured syntax, dropped words and refusal to comply with such basic writing skills as using capital letters, I'd say you are the one that can barely be understood.

I understand you are glad to have a job and need to feel useful. Now you understand that there is NO evidence any TSA employee has interdicted a hijacker and AMPLE evidence of its abuses.

If you're not too busy frisking Grandma, work on your language skills.

 

[kel]

I dislike the TSA as much as the next guy

But I have not seen the rudeness and unprofessionalism described by some people. I have been selected several times, but after a while that stopped and I didn't get it anymore. All the times that I was given the rubber glove treatment it was brief and efficient.

I do think the agency is pointless and little better then the private sector screening that came before it, and that it is WAY too expensive, but that is not something I can blame on the screeners themselves. I am only one data point, but all my experiences (including checking in guns at Boston Logan International Airport) have been positive. Heck, the airline agent in Tennessee was more difficult to navigate a gun through then the TSA in Boston.

 

[Deanimator]

TSA is a look we (government) did something agency. It has already outlived it's usefulness.

Not only that, but wasn't it's first director an incompetent buffoon late of F-Troop (BATF)?