TSA "Selectee List"

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It's the passengers that provide the safety against another 9-11. (Also hopefully armed pilots as well) NOT TSA.
Wasn't it the first head of the TSA to tried to PREVENT the pilots from being armed? Oh yeah, wasn't he a former head of F-Troop as well?

If the first head of a new agency comes from the BATF, that's the bad omen to end all bad omens. They could only have topped that by replacing him with Uday or Qusay Hussein...
 
I have generally found TSA to be polite, with only a couple of notable exceptions. Now having said that, I also find that they can be extremely under-trained and not familiar at all with proper procedures.

I've also quit flying unless it's absolutely necessary.

TSA is a waste of taxpayer dollars and does nothing to make the air transport system safer.

I posted the following back in January - it was a "run in" with a young (very young) TSA agent in the special screening area to inspect my firearms. TSA Agent #1 was polite (credit where credit is due) but TSA Agent #2 had a little too much attitude to go with his shiny TSA badge...I was very pleased to take him down a notch.


Posted in January:

Update on my return trip from Dallas, TX. Went to the AA counter and declared the firearms. Ticket agent gave me the card to fill out which I put in the case. My bag is then carried down to the TSA 'oversize/special inspection area' where two guys are sitting in chairs reading a newspaper.

Guy #1 - comes up and asks "What do you want?"

Me - I have two firearms to declare

Guy #2 - Give me your key

Me - I'm sorry I can't do that - it's against Federal Law for me to give you the key. I will, however, be happy to unlock the cases for you so you can inspect them.

Guy #2 - That's BS. My book says you have to give me the key.

Me - No, really, it's against Federal law. I'd be happy to pull a copy of the regulations out for you.

Guy #2 - You're wrong. Everybody just hands us their key.

Me - (while unlocking the pistol case) Tell you what...you guys just do your thing on this case and I'll go dig out the regs for you.

Guy #1 - inspects pistols (w/o touching them) and lets me relock the case.

Guy #2 - still pretty PO'd I didn't give him the key

Me - Goes and takes out my handy dandy printed out regs...specifically, 49 CFR 1540.111.c.2.iv...highlighted with yellow highlighter on my sheets:

" (iv) The container in which it is carried is locked, and only the passenger retains the key or combination."

Me - *thinking* read it and weep you moron.

Guy #2 - Well, that's not right - that's not what my book says.

Me - Look amigo, this is the actual FEDERAL LAW that your book was written from. If you'd like to invite your supervisor down to discuss this further I have plenty of time and we can chat about it.

Guy #1 - Ok sir, your bag is ok and I'll take it from here.

Guy #2 - walking away and mumbling some not-very-nice things about me.

Bottom line is this... "The container in which it is carried is locked, and only the passenger retains the key or combination." Have 49 CFR 1540.111.c.2.iv printed out. Be polite (to the point it makes you nauseous) and be confident. If all else fails, ask for a supervisor.

Also be aware that the TSA version says "It is preferred that the passenger provide the key or combination to the screener if it is necessary to open the container, and then remain present during screening to take back possession of the key after the container is cleared. If you are not present and the screener must open the container, the TSA and/or airline will make a reasonable attempt to contact the passenger. If this is unsuccessful, the container will not be placed on the plane since unlocked gun cases (or cases with broken locks) are not permitted on aircraft due to Federal regulations."

Fortunately the bags made it ok (I had visions of broken/missing locks).

I'm going to print out the entire CFR from the ecfr.gpoaccess.gov website for my next trip.
 
For what it's worth, in most of my encounters of TSA they have been polite, and even in one case helpful (mailing back a pocket knife I'd forgotten was in my purse that had significant sentimental value). The worst encounter I've had with airline bone-headedness was an airline rep, not TSA, insisting I check a 1" long Glock keychain or he'd confiscate it. :rolleyes:

That notwithstanding, I find the mission and exectution of TSA unconstitutional and counterproductive. If they kept explosives off but allowed personal weapons, I'd be fine with it.
 
Not only that, but wasn't it's first director an incompetent buffoon late of F-Troop (BATFE)?

Yup, former JBT and lowlife POS ol' John "No Draw" Magaw hisself.:mad: Had to be told by Congress several times to get airline pilots armed.
Was instrumental in setting up so many bureaucratic obstacles and hurdles, most pilots didn't bother with going through the process.
Old habits die hard. Once a JBT, always a JBT.
He was finally replaced by James Loy who made a few token gestures of arming the pilots. By this time the public was tired of fighting with them and the issue has more or less died.

TSA....keeping everyone safe.....

Sorry Dude. Having a corrupt and arbitrary agency groping me at the airport doesn't make me feel safe. I'd rather take my chances with Team Jihad, at least then I know I can fight back.

One question for ya....... How does confiscating the Medal of Honor from a retired Brigadier General who's a WWII fighter ace, former governor and football commissioner contribute to "making us safe"?:rolleyes:

I work for TSA here in Atlanta and I would like to defend what we do.

I think NukemJim expresses my sentiments pretty accurately.
 
I thought the purpose of TSA was to supply shady tables at the Gunshow thousands of $1 knives and zippos.

My bad
 
This program designates anyone a selectee and they keep you in a database, so everytime you buy a ticket be it one way or someone buys the ticket you will end up being a selectee.

Database. Doesn't sound nefarious at all. A list of suspicious characters that are never arrested for anything, just kept on a list. I wonder what other agencies have that information or can request it?

If a person has been identified as a TSA 'selectee', and as such is somehow risk, why aren't we investigating them?

If you designate someone as a risk and a thorough investigation (warranted I would think if you actually suspect they're going to hijack a plane) demonstrates that they aren't a threat, you admit the suspicion was in error and TAKE THEM OFF THE GD LIST! :fire:

That's not secure, that's just bureaucratic. Working indirectly for .gov & .mil this long, I think I know the difference.

jmm, flying tomorrow and CHECKING EVIL BLACK GUNS! :p
 
There are several TSA forms you can fill out that will get you off the CAPS list. My coworker said it was a total pain in the butt, but it was worth it for her (since she is a very nice looking ~24yo blond girl and she felt that the female screeners were arguing over who got to pat her down every time she flew).

Considering that TSA doesn't discriminate on sexual orientation, there's no way to tell if someone is getting jollies by feeling up members of the same sex. That said, I'd hate their attentions even if it was a chore for them also.

I note that the one time I flew in Europe, the manners were better and the efficiency seemed beter than in Detroit on the way home...I almost got a ticket to go back to Germany just to avoid further dealing with TSA and Customs.
 
When I get picked out even when using my active military ID card, there's something wrong. You trust me to load bombs on fighters, but not to fly on a 767?
 
Well, "T**-Squeezers' Association" works for me.

I won't fly. I won't allow myself to be subjected to such abuse.

I hope the airlines go broke, frankly. Okay, okay, but that's my emotional reaction to this whole charade we call "security". The TSA is a travesty, and is an insult to anybody with an IQ above room temperature in mid-winter.

Art
 
Bottom line, TSA is broken. You can't polish that bugger, I dont care how hard it's tried.

Explain pls how my 3 year old son wearing shorts, Tevas, and a tank top shirt is a real threat and needs to be searched while at the same time two mid east guys with the large beards cruise right thru??????

I just love the "holier than thou" attitudes and "don't ask questions, just do as we say" instructions, and still you have those who can't speak english very well. And no (for the PC crowd), this is not bashing immigrants. They are yelling instructions in gibberish and getting pissed at you because you dont understand. Don't belive me???? Try flying out of Dulles sometime....
 
Going to visit my dad in OH this summer , I'll be driving from WA to there , NO MATTER WHAT THE F*ING PRICE OF GAS IS! . I drive shellfish shipments to Sea-Tac and all I hear is people griping about TSA in the restaurants surrounding the airport went I stop off at one for a bite to eat .
 
I won't fly. I won't walk into the 'secure' area of an airport.



TSA can make all the rules it wants but it going to have to do it on private vehicles to feel me up.
 
Heres a scary thought. TSA recently said they want to bring their insanity to all modes of transportation since there mandate does not specifically say they are only for airlines.

Can everyoneone say "Your papers please"
 
"Ok, you know what this is pointless. For now on when you guys get on a plane, just remember all the crap your guys spewed here. Question and I'm gone. How many of you are ex-military or current members of the military. Some of you I can understand you frustrations, others I can barely understand."

Is it just me or is this basically a threat?

I don't see what difference it makes as to our past or current military status. I have never been meet with anything other than indifference and occasionally a superior attitude by the TSA people I've been forced to deal with.
 
I used to manage a passenger screening....

operation for one of today's airlines at an airport. I also was a Director of Public Safety at an airport responsible for airport security. I attended the airport security class at OKC. I ran a department that maintained and certified the passenger screening equipment at all the airports where the airline I worked for flew. I am no rookie when it comes to aviation security.

However, I would not put up with the TSA nonsense that is going on today. I thank my lucky stars I did not apply for a position with TSA. TSA has the largest group of morons that don't have a clue what they are doing running the TSA I have ever seen.

I hate to fly. I am hearing impared and in a noisy terminal, I cannot understand anything being said. All of the TSA agents I have to interact with treat me like dirt because I don't follow their directions. When I hand them a pad and pen, they blow up and get very ugly. Life is too short to put up with this........chris3
 
Put up or shut up

"Ok, you know what this is pointless. For now on when you guys get on a plane, just remember all the crap your guys spewed here. Question and I'm gone."

Is that a promise? :scrutiny:

Perhaps you should spend all that new free time learning to comprehend punctuation, logic and your ostensible purpose of employment......
 
We've got a job to do!

My daddy worked very hard to feed us during the war. He just had to repair the railroad tracks...

C-


ed note: This post requires a bit of a stretch so i'll elaborate. I just finished some research on the Nazi camps. Somehow, I found myself thinking about the 'grunts'. not the people who worked in the camps, but everyone else. What about the guy who just did maintenance on the rail cars and tracks? He was probably glad to have some kind of job in a war-torn economy. he came out after-hours and didnt see many groups of anyone getting in the cars, and didn't see where they were going. So is he guilty of the holocaust?
How about the guy who kept sanitation up back in Berlin or whatever city. If cholera had wiped out or incapacitated most of the headquarters staff in Berlin, it may have helped end the war. My assumption being that that guy didn't know about the camps, but he sure did know he was in a nation at war and it was hard living.
So even though you may be part of the 'war-machine' (even by just paying taxes), you are not personally guilty beyond the direct results of your own free-willed actions.
OK, so the TSA screener...
He believes with all his heart that he's doing the right thing: protecting America from terrorists or whatever. But there's a difference here: Mr. TSA-screener had a MANDATORY education, to at least the GED level. A civics/govt/american history class is part of every cirriculum in public schools (how it is misrepresented is another thread topic); so Mr. TSA is in fact responsible to KNOW the constitution, and the right to be free of unreasonable search and seizure- unreasonable being defined as occurring when no evidence of a crime is observed. Buying an airline ticket is NOT prima facie evidence of a crime and does not authorize a search. Period.
Sure, case law, new regs, the TSA, and whatever else may say otherwise; but that doesn't make it so. Its wrong under our professed system of government. Mr. TSA might be judged innocent if he couldn't have known the Constitution and the freedoms it protects. But he IS expected to know, and he is therefore freely participating in his job, and working very hard at it apparently.
"I am giving you guys the reasons why you are chosen for the additional screening, now the actions taken by some of the people in TSA aren't reflected on those of us who do their job with professionalism. There are alot of us here who like what we do... "
He's just trying to explain himself, that's all. Why can't you guys understand??? (sarcasm) The issue is, Mr. TSA, that NO ONE SHOULD BE ON THAT NOR ANY OTHER LIST AT ALL!! The fact of that not even occurring to you is exactly why you are part of the problem.
Is it more dangerous? Absolutely. Freedom isn't free, as the saying goes. Allowing me and the other good guys to board an aircraft with a rifle slung over my shoulder means that there's a chance a bad guy might do it, too. That is the price of freedom.

The last time I flew civillian aircraft, and I hope that was indeed the last time, I told my wife that I couldn't believe an American would do that (a physical search) to another American. Of course, I misused my terms- the person doing the search wasn't American at all.

No it isn't because of their lack of English as a fluent language; it was because of their actions: they were freely choosing to pat-down someone who has offered no evidence of having committed a crime. That disqualifies you as an 'American'. Why?

The USA was extraordinary in history because a person could come here and not tie their national identity to their country of birth, or their parents nationality. Rather, anyone from anywhere could come here and as long as s/he embraced the principles of the United States of America, s/he could call him/herself an American. All you had to do was love and live the ideals on which the country was founded.

Mr. TSA willingly acts contrary to those ideals, removing himself from the category of 'American'. Deal with it, brother.
C-
 
OK, we've ID'ed the problem: TSA. Let's put our collective creativity into coming up with solutions.

1. "Selectee list": Investigate everyone on it. If no proof of threat, remove. If CLEAR AND CONSISTENT proof of threat, over to no-fly list. Anyone on the list is to be notified as soon as they're added to it.

2. "No-fly list": Ditto. No-fly list individuals must be notified of such, and allowed a process to appeal through appropriate channels.

3: Arming pilots: I'll show you REAL TRANSPORTATION SECURITY with one little regs change:
"Anyone licensed to carry a concealed weapon, or bearing a letter of good character from their local CLEO, may carry concealed pistols or revolvers on an aircraft, provided they pass an appropriate training course. Persons exercising this authority must declare their intentions and equipment/ammunition, and present credentials, both at airline check-in and at the security checkpoint. If caliber is 9mm Parabellum or higher, no hardball ammunition will be authorized in this application, and frangible ammo use is to be strongly encouraged. NO ILLEGAL ALIEN SHALL BE AUTHORIZED TO PARTICIPATE IN THE PROGRAM." This means either open FFDO enrollment to everyone, or work with NRA on an "Airliner Pistol 101" course. "No hardball, encourage frangible" is to placate the bedwetters afraid of getting sucked out through a bullet hole. Didn't Mythbusters debunk that one already?

Anyone else care to pitch in to refine this as a base for pitching a draft bill to Reps. Paul and Sensenbrenner?
 
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