Tula ammo sticking in my AR.

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jbkebert

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I know that this has been beat to death but why stop now. At the range to day I fired 30 rounds of Federal XM193 55 grain without a problem. Then fired 30 rounds of Tula .223 in 55 grain without a problem. I couple younger boys were eyeballing my rifle so I asked if they wanted to shoot it. After 10 more rounds of the Tula I had a stuck case. I mean STUCK I took the upper off got the bolt out and used a range rod and after several fairly sharp taps was able to get the case out.

Started firing again 5 rounds fine then another stuck case. The bolt would not relase fully and had to be tapped out again this time requiring much more effort.

I want to blame the ammo. However 2 weeks ago at the range my son and I ran approx 200 rounds of the Tula without a single problem. Cleaned the rifle after we got home. Lightly oiled and put it away. Don't know if I just got a bad lot# or what the heck is going on. I pulled the extractor and it looks fine. Put bolt back together and cases snap into bolt and hold well no signs of extractor or bolt face problems.

Any Ideas???

Rifle is a Stag Arms model 1.
 
If it's the steel case stuff, the chambers tend to get pretty dirty after a few hundred rounds. The steel cases just don't expand enough to keep powder residue from blowing back into the chamber. I have an AR-15 in 7.62x39 that would get a stuck case, occasionally, when shooting Russian ammo, until I got a chamber brush and started thoroughly cleaning the chamber between sessions.
 
Better run a patch with Hoppes no 9 every 120 rds . Then follow with dry patch . THis is to keep the barrel clean and pretending jams and sticky problems.
 
sounds like you need a chamber brush.

also hats off to you for being the the type that would let inquisitive young minds try your rifle. many would not these days, and might even become irritable at the notion of prying eyes.

kudos dudos
 
Isn't Tula ammo lacquered, too? In a hot barrel, that crap will gum up the works nicely...
 
Not all russian steel case ammo is the same quality! The only ammo that has ever given me trouble in my four AR's is Tula and Herter's ammo. I have shot thousands of rounds of Silver Bear, Brown Bear and WPA ammo without a problem.
 
potentially also too much oil in the chamber, although that's not usually a problem with steel cases because they don't expand as much.
 
I will clean the heck out of the gun and try again. Since I bought several hundred rounds of this stuff I don't really want to pitch it all. I certainly would not think that steel case should expand at all of minimally.

Does anyone use those high dollar foam star cleaning patches? Do they work better or are they just another gimmick. Since the boys and I ran a couple hundred rounds without a hiccup it seemed odd to me that another box of the same stuff would cause problems.

I was not real impressed with the accuracy of this ammo. The Tula fired from a bench using a 3-9x40 Nikon prostaff scope produced approx a 3-3 1/4" group 30 shots at 100 yards. That is just piss poor for a .223. Plenty accurate for plinking or yotes but not at all up to the standard of the cartridge.

I keep finding myself sinking money into this rifle now thinking of a match trigger. I want to make it accurate just feel like I am going to have highly polished turd in the end.:eek:
 
Well, frankly, Tula's plinking ammo. Don't expect much beyond plinking accuracy, frankly. I mean, you might find some that runs notably well. But don't hold your breath...
 
Not uncommon for rifles to react bad with certain types of ammo.

Don't spend another dime on any upgrades as that will change the parameters but buy 50 rounds of 3 or 4 types of .223 and try it.

Don't limit yourself buy buying the cheapest stuff.

If you get the same poor results with 4 to 5 different types of ammo, start looking at either yourself the shooter, scope mount(canted), canting your hold, barrel quality, crappy trigger.

Do buy an ar chamber brush and use it.

I have no experience with Stag arms but my Colts, Bushmasters and Rock Rivers will all shoot crappy plinking ammo at 2" groups at 100 yds with a flyer now and then.

For accuracy I always shoot hands loads taylored to the exact Ar I will shoot as there are slight difference between all of them.

Also some of my AR's will never ever see any type of plinking type ammo.
 
Right now I have the following ammo

100 rounds Hornady steel match
600 rounds of Remington UMC green box
420 Federal 62 grain green tip lake city
250 Tula 55 grain

I'll do a little experimiting and see what works

Sad thing I give my .22lrs more consideration than I give this AR. Hell I won't buy anything for my .22 lrs other than CCI mini-mags or ely match. Yet I will run crap ammo through this gun. My centerfire rifles see nothing but handloads or Hornady or Black Hills. For being a ammo snob I sure ain't with this gun. I'd probably treat a mosin better. Yet for a basic mill-spec battle rifle it should take the abuse and not be so darn finicky IMHO.
 
wnycollector said:
Not all russian steel case ammo is the same quality! The only ammo that has ever given me trouble in my four AR's is Tula and Herter's ammo. I have shot thousands of rounds of Silver Bear, Brown Bear and WPA ammo without a problem.
Click to expand...

I shot Tula through my Remington 700 without any problems. Then a friend was going to shoot Silver Bear through it, locked up in the chamber on the first round. Was finally able to work the bolt out and continued shooting some Core-Lokt with no more problems.
 
I suspect that your AR doesn't have a chrome lined bore. The only problem with steel cased ammo I ever had was from my only AR without a chrome bore. I've since sold it.
 
Rifle is a Stag Arms model 1 with a 16" chrome lined barrel. In total rifle has less than 800 rounds through it.
 
There are some rifles; Bushmaster quite notably; that are very picky about the ammo it shoots. And I'm not talking just steel case. I'm talking brass case ammo also. A quick google search showed that stag too seems to be a little picky with it's ammo. Mostly issues with steel, but some brass. Every weapon is different, and some simply like certain things. Anyone who says it's the ammo, simply doesn't know what they're talking about. They don't realize that every gun is different. For every person who says they had an issue with shooting steel case ammo, I can find 2-3 that have never had a problem.

I have a walther PPK. Is that considered a decent pistol? Most will say yes. I've shot corbon ammo. Is it considered decent ammo? Most will say yes. Well; my walther will not, under any circumstance, chamber corbon ammo. It simply won't chamber all the way in. I'm sure it's the rifling coming in contact with the bullet too soon. Now; if the Walther wouldn't shoot 2-3 different brands, I'd look into having the pistol repaired. But it's only corbon. So, I find another ammo.

So, you shot tula in your stag, and you've had some jams on the case. Your weapon has less than 800 rounds through it. (I usually shoot 400-500 rounds in one outing). Personally, I would break your weapon in first. I'd shoot that 62 grain lake city. It's 5.56 ammo; higher pressure; and better for breaking in your gun. Then I'd try some of the steel case ammo again. Once thing for sure; if you're going to shoot steel case, nothing wrong with it, I do it all the time, just make sure you clean the chamber/bore at least every few hundred rounds. If you shoot less than that per outing, then cleaning after each outing.

If you still have some issues with the tula, see if a friend has some OTHER BRAND of steel case. Maybe swap out some tula for bear, mfs, herters, wolf, etc... Just like winchester, remington, hornady, etc... isn't all the SAME AMMO; neither is the steel case ammo. (As much as some want to believe it's all the same, but with a different name)

And if your rifle still has problems shooting steel case, then I guess your rifle simply doesn't like it. Could be the chamber not bored properly, could be timing. But then you can decide. FWIW: I have a Savage 7mm remington magnum which is one of my prize hunting rifles. I love it more than my Weatherby. It will shoot ANYTHING, EXCEPT WINCHESTER!!! Winchester swells, and the bolt is a bear to eject the empty case. Loves everything else. I only bring this up because winchester, and corbon in the case of my walther are good ammo manufacturers. Just that my weapons don't like them. On the other hand, my S&W M&P15 will shoot ANY .223/5.56 ammo you can give it. It has literally shot every steel case and brass case ammo I can find, and it's NEVER had an issue. Each weapon is different.
 
Isn't Tula ammo lacquered, too? In a hot barrel, that crap will gum up the works nicely...
Click to expand...
No, it's got a polymer coating (gray case).

3-3 1/4" group 30 shots at 100 yards.
Click to expand...
That's about as well as that ammo will do. It's made for cheapest-possible plinking, not accuracy.

I shoot Tula in USPSA style carbine matches (at 15 yards, 3.5 MOA is sub-1/2") but if I were shooting for accuracy at 100 yards I'd use something else.
 
Silly AR owner, dont you know that steel stuff is for AK's:p

+1 too on what GCBurner said (post #2) about the steel cases not expanding and letting more residue blow back than brass cases
 
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I have the same problem--Tula ammo jamming in my AR. I too thought a chamber brush and better cleaning would help. Nope.

I have a Smith and Wesson M&P-15. I can shoot three hundred rounds of brass-cased ammo with no problems. If I immediately switch to Tula, the first round will jam in the chamber with the bolt stuck forward. Conversely, I can run a mag of Tula through a cold rifle and somewhere around the 30 to 35th round will jam. A friend has similar problems with Tula ammo.

Each time I've had the problem, I've taken a close look at the spent round once it finally breaks free. It appears the polymer the round is coated with has melted and caused the case to stick in the chamber.

No amount of chamber brushing, lubricants, or otherwise have helped this problem. I've just simply switched to brass-cased only (and started reloading in the process).
 
It appears the polymer the round is coated with has melted and caused the case to stick in the chamber.
Click to expand...
That doesn't happen. Ever. Old internet wive's tale.:evil:
 
WaltonS said:
That doesn't happen. Ever. Old internet wive's tale.
Click to expand...
If you say so. All I know is what the cases look like when I finally get them out of the chamber. *shrug*
 
As mentioned above, even lacquered cases won't gum up anything. Blow by isn't what causes cases to stick either. I'll agree that steel allows more blow by than brass and the chamber being dirty may exacerbate your problem, but cleaning after as little as 100 rounds is just putting a band aid on the problem. Since the rifle has relatively few rounds through it and it worked before, my guess would be that the action has slicked up some with use and you are now seeing the effects of too much gas.

I'd try a different brand of steel cased ammo. If that doesn't do it, your rifle may benefit from a heavier buffer. If that doesn't do it, then you'll either have to stick to brass cased ammo or get a barrel with a proper size gas port.

Of course, it could be something like a rough or out of spec chamber, but that isn't too common.

nixdorf, if you are implying that lacquer comes off of the cases, you are in error.
 
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