UN-Kid-proof safe

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gbran

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My boy has 4 kids and not much room at his place, so he keeps his guns in his safe at my house. Not wanting to be without home protection, he bought one of those $129 small safes that hold a couple of guns and put it on his nightstand. It has 4 buttons and a backup key. The owner can change the code. If the wrong code is punched in 3 times, it locks out for 15 minutes as a safety feature.

Well, you guessed it, one of my 6 year old grandkids cracked the code. Now he's going to buy a better one. Fingerprint recognition? Any suggestions?

Anway, all who have one of these, beware. BTW, the odds of cracking one of these, I would have thought was pretty low.
 
I'd recommend against fingerprint recognition. You can counterfeit someone's fingerprints with a gummy bear, among other things.

I'd say something with either an analog dial combination, or an alphanumeric keypad.
 
I use a Stack-On pistol safe, ten buttons to choose from when setting you code. Still fast enough entry when needed but reduced likelyhood of little minds figuring the combo out.
 
You should suggest he tries a code other than 1 2 3 4. Exactly which kind of safe was it? It almost sounds like a Gunvault, but those only have a 3 minute lockout. However, they also have 12 million possible combinations since you can have a variable entry length and buttons pressed in combination.
 
With four buttons, you've got about 256 different combinations. But kids are smart; he probably found the owners manual and typed in the factory code, or watched his father enter in the code and memorized it.

I'm not sure what would be better, but then, I'm no expert on gun safes. I would suggest nothing with a key, though, because those are very easily found.

Biometrics might be a good idea, but they aren't 100% accurate and over time the sensor can build up dirt and oil and become near inoperable (I've seen this happen with laptop biometric fingerprint scanners). If you keep the sensor clean this might just do the trick, though.

Maybe an old style combination coded safe? It would be a little more difficult for the kid to observe the combination being entered in than with the electronic key coded ones, but it could be just as easily opened if he found the combination written down somewhere.
 
I selected the code in private with no kids around and the manual is at my house. The code was 1423.

I like the regular keepad, which is slower, but secure. I don't know the brand he bought.
 
A good hiding helps too. Not too hard to crack unfortantly. Most of these cheap safes can be opened quite quickly. I made the guy at Staples cry when I went along and cracked open every one of the safes they had on display.
 
No offense, gbran, if it was one of those types of safes or similar, you picked one of the worst possible combinations. Many people who see these assume you only press one key at a time, only use each key once, and you must use all 4. That takes the number of possible combinations from 12,204,000 down to 24.

The Gunvault allows you to do 3-6 "entries" for the combination. Each entry can be any combination of one, two, three or all four buttons. Since you can do that, you have the ability to have up to 15 different options for each entry.

Try using a "combination" that requires 2 or more keys pressed at the same time, at least for one of the entries. Harder for little hands and little minds handle. For example, you could 1+2, 1+4, 2, 3. Even if they figured out that the first two entries involved pressing 2 keys at the same time and the last two a single press, it takes the number of possible combinations up to 576. Add a fifth single button and you have over 2300 combinations.

Pressing 3 buttons at a time is kind of hard, so I would stick with single and double presses. Even if you go with single presses only, repeating buttons and moving up to a six entry code takes the possibilities up to almost 5000.

I wouldn't replace the safe just yet, I would try a more effective combination. It might also be worthwhile to place it further from the reach of little hands if possible.

Good luck.
 
Last edited:
Jorg

Good points, but at some point it gets too complicated to open quickly, thus defeating its utility. I really underestimated kid power. I'll look into tougher codes before my son cans this safe. He wants something quick and safe, which may not exist.
 
I think your son needs to have a talk with the young man concerning the hazzards that may befall his butt if he fools with dad's gun safe. Getting a more secure safe may be a solution, but first things should come first. :uhoh:
 
For this sort of thing, you need to find your own balance of speed and security. However, I think he'll find with a bit of practice he can do a "combo" like 1+4, 2, 2, 3, 2, or 1, 1, 1+2, 2, 2, 1+2 or 2+3, 1, 4, 2, 3just as fast as he can do the old one, with quite a bit more confidence about the security.

As Old Fuff said, a little social engineering on the kid could go a long ways as well.
 
I have a big safe with a keypad on it. I change the combo often since my 6 yr old grand daughter figured out the code once. I think she watched my wife but she walked right up to it and said "watch this papaw", punched the code. I stopped her and changed the combo right there and change it regularly.

Moral of this story: NEVER UNDERESTIMATE A CHILD.
 
I keep mine hidden as well as locked. If my 6-yr old son was within 3 feet of the cabinet containing my little safe... Let's just say, he would not want to do it again... :what:

Also, you might ask your son to check out Pax's website:

http://www.corneredcat.com/TOC.aspx

It deals extensively with training your kids about guns. Depending on the kid, 6 may be old enough to start learning the rules. Pax has a great section on taking the mystique out of it...
 
I don't think this situation has a 'lock and key' sollution. Until the issue of why the kids want to pick the lock on Dad's forbidden box is addressed---they will find a way in.

I know everybody has differing views, but it seems that the kids' natural curriosity needs to be satisfied in a safe and productive manner. Either that, or take the weapon out the the picture for now.
 
six years old? he should know everything there is to know about firearm saftey, and have at least one gun of his own by now (even if a bb gun)

remember the near first rule of cracking pass codes, "it doesn't matter how many wrong numbers there are, only that there is one right one, and that's the only one I need to figure out"

teach the kid about firearm saftey and get him his own gun, thn use one of the classic methods of putting the fear of God in him about your guns...

melon on a fence post with hydrashocks...

barbie doll on the fence post with same...

gallon of red koolaid inside a slightly pressurised milk jug...

be creative :D
 
Not only does that safe have 12 million possible entries it will also tell you if someone has entered a wrong code. Perfect to see if someone has been messing with it.
 
no one else is saying it....so I'll be the first one....

The safe and the code on it is my "back up" line of defense.

The primary line of defense is "obedience" and "discipline"

My suggestion...

1. Forbid the child from ever touching the safe and explain why this rule is extremely important and that the reason you make the rule is because you love them.

2. Inform the child in very firm yet calm language that if they break the rule they will get there bare bottoms spanked harder than they have ever experienced.

3. If the child violates the rule, and it's not "an accident", then follow through on #2. Don't do it in anger. Send them to their room until your totally calm. Review the rule and make sure they understand what they did wrong, re-emphasize that you love them so much that you must enforce this rule to protect them.

If you have to go to step 3, and you do it right, I doubt you'll ever have to do it again.

There is no substitute for obedience, discipline and self control.
 
By the time a kid is old enough to operate the slide on a .45, he or she should have plenty of shooting and safety training. There is a reason the cops don't keep their guns in a safe or with trigger locks while on duty. If you are a parent, you are on duty for the next couple of decades.
 
I have the single pistol one hidden. I am pretty certain my code is good enough.

I suggest changing the code. The thing will lock out after a couple of wrong tries and then it will continue to beep until the correct code is entered. This is where parenting might come into play.

"Son, I know you played with daddy's safe, you know what I told you about that, No TV for 1 week and you can not go shooting with daddy for a whole month."

Something like that might work. If the kid knows that if he tries and fails dad will know, becuase it will alert him. If the kid knows what he gets for trying, then he wont try.
 
By the time a kid is old enough to operate the slide on a .45, he or she should have plenty of shooting and safety training. There is a reason the cops don't keep their guns in a safe or with trigger locks while on duty. If you are a parent, you are on duty for the next couple of decades.
Click to expand...

yup.
 
Can always try what worked for me with my kid. I had some friends over; they'd never seen an "Army 45". So, I dragged out the old 1911 to play show-and-tell.

My son, then just over four years old, showed up and did the goo-goo eye thing. Okay, I handed it to him to look at. I showed him how to cock it, and explained about the grip safety. I suggested he "make it go click". He tried, but his hands were too small.

Moment of truth: "It's too big for you, isn't it?" "Yessir." (He still said, "Sir," back then.) "Okay. When YOU think you're big enough to shoot it, just tell me and we'll go shoot."

End of problem. No more "mystique". No more thrill of the illicit or unknown.

Let the kid fondle and feel and meddle. Get him where in his head, guns are no big deal. They're just not toys, is all; not something to "play" with.

Art
 
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