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Using Red Dot for 9MM

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Viking357, Apr 28, 2019.

  1. Viking357

    Viking357 Member

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    Thank you Linux for this information I appreciate it
     
  2. bds

    bds Member

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    It's bds (From my dogs Blaze, Daisy and Steffie or short for binary data set, whichever you prefer).

    Linux Mint is the free open source OS I use for my computers and laptops (It's a streamlined high performance version of Linux which I prefer over Ubuntu I used to use) - https://linuxmint.com/

    You are very welcome and glad to have you on board.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2019
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  3. bds

    bds Member

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    This problem could be from bullet setback when bullet nose of round in the magazine is slammed on feed ramp by slide and insufficient neck tension pushes bullet deeper in the case.

    I used to push on nose of finished rounds against the bench top to check neck tension/bullet setback but found this did not closely replicate the impact force round experiences during slide cycling.

    Now I load dummy rounds (no primer, no powder) to working OAL and measure before/after feeding the dummy rounds from the magazine and releasing the slide without riding it. While I prefer no bullet setback, reduction of up to a few thousandths is OK but if I measure significant bullet setback, I will investigate the cause.

    Larger .356" sized coated bullets should improve neck tension and reduce potential for bullet setback.

    BTW, we did a myth busting thread on neck tension and bullet setback on this thread - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...neck-tension-and-bullet-setback.830072/page-4

    FYI, even jacketed/plated 9mm bullets come sized .354", .355", .3555", .356" - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...re-sized-the-same.818806/page-2#post-10567453
     
  4. Zendude
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    Zendude Contributing Member

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    Red Dot is a good example of conflicting burn rate data. Despite the data in previous posts showing that Bullseye is faster than Red Dot, the 2019 Alliant catalog shows that Red Dot is faster than Bullseye. They are extremely close though.
     
  5. bds

    bds Member

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    For most of my reloading, which powder is faster burning is less of an issue.

    But what may matter to OP is Bullseye meters way better than Red Dot due to smaller size.

    Below are comparison pictures of Red Dot and Bullseye referenced to W231/HP-38 - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...s-and-discussions.778197/page-7#post-10094185

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2019
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  6. 1KPerDay

    1KPerDay Member

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    I agree generally but Alliant has recently removed tons of loads from their site. They list zero 9mm loads for red dot, for example.
     
  7. Dudedog
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    Dudedog Contributing Member

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    From Alliant 2002
    as noted earlier MAX charges reduce 10% to start. (my 2002 was clearer than 2006)

    I prefer something a little slower but Red Dot (Promo) shot well for me in 9mm when I was using some up.
     

    Attached Files:

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  8. bds

    bds Member

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    Dudedog, since that container, I have used 2 more jugs and on my 3rd jug and I have noticed change in flake shape and ratio composition.

    As Paul from Alliant confirmed, I suspect Promo has been better "blended" for improved metering and more consistent burn. I have some older Promo I saved for comparison and may do some testing.
     
  9. Zendude
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    Zendude Contributing Member

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    I took your advice and loaded 9mm with 115 grain copper plated bullets and Red Dot. I tried charge weights from 3.7 gn to 4.3. All had no problems cycling. Comparing recoil to Blazer 115 gn fmj, I probably could have pushed the charges higher. But, the best accuracy came with the 4.0 gn charge. It burns clean too.

    It was also my first loads using a hopper baffle I bought from Titan Reloading for the Pro Auto Disk. I was pleasantly surprised to only get +/- .1 grain throws. Since Red Dot is a relatively large flake powder, I anticipated a much larger variation. Good stuff.
     
  10. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    Hmm, and I just gave away three full cans of Hercules Red Dot...sealed...
     
  11. Hokie_PhD

    Hokie_PhD Member

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    Glad to hear that. We just want you safe.
    As I say, get the load data from manuals. Doubling and triple checking here then to verify is smart. So kudos to you.

    Btw when you reload a lot you’ll start to see patterns and have an idea of what the load ranges should be. This will also serve as part of your safety and checks. Knowing something doesn’t seem right will set off alarms in your head that will make you want to recheck the manuals and here. So better safe than sorry and it sounds like you got that!
     
  12. Hokie_PhD

    Hokie_PhD Member

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    I was thinking the same.
    The first time I shot a 9mm with a red dot optic was last summer. It was “different”. I’m not sure if I like it or not but it was cool to use different platforms and setups and learn new skills.
     
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  13. Wreck-n-Crew
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    Wreck-n-Crew Member

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    What often happens when a reloader finds a powder they end up using is it fits the demands for them in a way they prioritize. For instance burns cleaner, fills the case better, produces the velocity desired, is most accurate, more stable, not as temperature sensitive, doesn't have as high a peak pressure, burn rate, readily available or any combo of things. Finding what works for them is a thing that reloaders will personalize to their reloading practices. Though they may change preferences they often find something that they stick with in general.


    So many powders with so many characteristics and things they are better at in some since that it can be a real task if you reload several calibers and find a powder that is best suited for several calibers without it being the best powder for all. Unique for example does real well in several calibers but is referred to as Dirt by many reloaders for is high amount of soot left in the barrel. I agree it does burn that way but its still a great powder and works well in several calibers. Currently I an burning up a 4lb can from the 80's I bought sealed and I cannot tell the difference between it over a new 1lb can in velocity, look, or smell. So the remaining 1.5lbs of an 8lbs jug will sit until that is gone.


    Enjoy the journey!
     
  14. Viking357

    Viking357 Member

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    I want to thank every one for their input. a lot of knowledge was given and I appreciate it.!!
     
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