Wal-Mart guns

[Outlaws]

Ruger did make some special 10/22's for sale at Walmart.

 

[Bravo11]

Amen Brother Chieftain.
I don't get all the Wal-Mart bashing.
I hear people around here saying they never go to WM.
I say "Where do you buy your washing detergent and underwear?"
WM is just as good as anywhere else. Sam Walton was a small time
store owner once too. He just grew his business well.
I'm sure most local shop owners would love to do as well as he did.

 

[joab]

Personally I hate Wal Mart
I don't like there service or what they do to the community small businesses

But they would not have that power if the people of the community did not choose price over service and you can not fault any business for giving the community what they want

He told me what the difference is, but I don't remember right now. Trigger guard maybe. I can tell you for certain that he knows if an 870 is Wal-Mart or not. He claims that Wal-Mart guns are not as well finished and might cause problems. Whatever the reason, he didn't want it.

He was abe to tell the difference the same way the fortune teller was able to tell that I was divorced
He guessed based on signals the seller put out
He refused the gun as a way of putting it out into the community that Wally's gun were inferior
I've had the same scam pulled on me in the past, but it has been many years and the gun was not from Walmart

 

[ABTOMAT]

Your example of Snapper sort of disproves the rest of your statement. You mean the suppliers feel they must go off shore. As to quality, I have seen a lot of junk from every country.

For a gun example. Norinco 1911 or Highpoint 45. Frankly the Chinese pistol is hands down better quality than the American Highpoint.

Use your brain in thinking this over. The Snapper story doesn't disprove anything. If a retailer comes to you and says "We'll buy your product only if it's 40% cheaper" your options for acheiving that are limited. If it's like Snapper's case and the retailer opens with this you can just walk away. However, if you're already devoted to making stuff for the retailer and your company depends on the contract, if they come around and say "we need 40% cheaper or you're cancelled" you're screwed.

And once more, let's beat up Wally World for getting suppliers to lower their prices, AND pass that on to the consumer.

I guess you prefer suppliers making more money, and the consumer paying more.

Must be an economics major.

Again, brain. There are only so many ways to get really low prices. At a certain point they become detrimental. Not low prices themselves, but how they're possible. If a supplier making more money, without waste or bloated CEOs, means three thousand people in your state being employed vs. being on Welfare, I might pay a little more for a product. But wait, if they did go out of business they could always go to work for the Wal-Mart or Home Depot that just opened up down the road.

And how do they do that. Force everyone to buy by holding their first born hostage. Nope! Good products at fair prices.

Wal-Mart doesn't force consumers to do anything, I never said that. A large percentage of the population, being the bleating brainless sheep they are, will follow the lowest prices regardless. And define "fair prices." Fair to whom? I could probably undercut Wal-Mart's prices by having stuff made by comapanies owned by the Iranian government and US consumers would beat a path to my door.

Actually, the public always prefers better values. That is why most folks don't buy the cheapest car, house etc. Otherwise at the various counters EVEN in Wally World they would offer only the Cheapest. Nope that myth don't fly here.

The public prefers _percieved_ better values, not actual. They don't buy the cheapest car or house because they'd appear cheap to the neighbors. Look at appliances these days, or electronics, or furniture, etc. People have been trained to think it's normal for something to last a couple years, and then have to buy a new one. When my father bought a refrigerator it came with a 20-year warranty and lasted 35 years. A lot of the new ones have a 5-year warranty and won't make it much past that.

A year or two ago in Sears they had a sale on $35 no-name DVD players. Customers were buying them by the armload instead of the brand-name ones that cost twice as much. The electronics salesman told me to my face that they were seeing most of them come back just out of warranty. I still bought one, just on a whim, and damned if it didn't die after five months. A friend of mine bought one at the same time that lasted four months. Yet still, the $35 DVD players are the ones that sell out in stores.

Wally World didn't disassemble the manufacturing capability of the United States. You and I did. We the consumer.

Which is what I've been saying all along, and it's taken this long for you to admit it. You and millions others choose to buy products that save you money in the short term at any cost. When offered a choice, you choose to support the Chinese.

Want to pay more and get less. Go for it. I choose to be rational. Every product has it's price point. That comes from you and I, not the manufacturer, or the retailer.

Just admit you don't like Wal-Mart. It's okay you don't have to like anything or body for any reason, just don't try to rationalize the irrational, to me.

Go figure.

Fred

It's a difference of opinion and I don't mind that. But to say I'm not rational is, well, irrational. A price point at the most basic level does come from the manufacturer. If something takes $5 worth of iron, $3 in oil, $3 in copper, and a man-hour to make you simply can't honestly charge less. But if your factory is in a country with intentionally undervalued currency, subsidised by the military, and your employees live on the second floor of the warehouse, you can.

I'm have more dislike for the average consumer's lack of informed buying than I do Wal-Mart's business model. They're simply realizing consumers will whore themselves out to get a cheap television and are taking advantage of the situation.

 

[chieftain]

Use your brain in thinking this over. The Snapper story doesn't disprove anything. If a retailer comes to you and says "We'll buy your product only if it's 40% cheaper" your options for acheiving that are limited. If it's like Snapper's case and the retailer opens with this you can just walk away. However, if you're already devoted to making stuff for the retailer and your company depends on the contract, if they come around and say "we need 40% cheaper or you're cancelled" you're screwed.

(Sigh) Ok lets use our brains.

You begin with the assumption that suppliers have no choices. They do. Snapper is a good example of that. Any company in any industry who lives for one customer is one order away from extinct.

It doesn’t matter if that customer is Wal-Mart or United States Department of Defense. A wise CEO/Board would be looking for additional customers. Not doing that is negligent.

Again, brain. There are only so many ways to get really low prices. At a certain point they become detrimental. Not low prices themselves, but how they're possible. If a supplier making more money, without waste or bloated CEOs, means three thousand people in your state being employed vs. being on Welfare, I might pay a little more for a product. But wait, if they did go out of business they could always go to work for the Wal-Mart or Home Depot that just opened up down the road.

Actually there are ways to reduce prices that you and I cannot imagine.

Oh, I see. My purchases are there to assist the excessively high taxes I must pay to keep folks employed? I think not. I do buy local given a choice at reasonable prices. I guess that’s why so many shooters buy Glock, SIG, HK, Beretta, Walther, Hi Powers, Springfield, etc…… I guess that brain thing is getting in the way, again.

Now I want to be clear. When I buy a Mossberg shotgun from Wal -Mart, I am putting folks out of work exactly where?

Sorry, didn‘t mean for that Brain reference of your's to get in my way. You know that rational irrational thing you have a hard time understanding.

Wal-Mart doesn't force consumers to do anything, I never said that. A large percentage of the population, being the bleating brainless sheep they are, will follow the lowest prices regardless. And define "fair prices." Fair to whom? I could probably undercut Wal-Mart's prices by having stuff made by comapanies owned by the Iranian government and US consumers would beat a path to my door.

I cannot and will not accept your elitist liberal BS. I don’t believe “A large percentage of the population, being the bleating brainless sheep they are,…….” It ain’t about bleating, it is about paying. With money we earn. Of course you are superior to us low dumb folks, I am sure.

Do I always agree with them, no. I do work diligently in educating them. Just as I do about second amendment issues.

The public prefers _percieved_ better values, not actual. They don't buy the cheapest car or house because they'd appear cheap to the neighbors. Look at appliances these days, or electronics, or furniture, etc. People have been trained to think it's normal for something to last a couple years, and then have to buy a new one. When my father bought a refrigerator it came with a 20-year warranty and lasted 35 years. A lot of the new ones have a 5-year warranty and won't make it much past that.

Interesting, Wal-Mart does not sell refrigerators. Now, who are you going to blame?

A year or two ago in Sears they had a sale on $35 no-name DVD players. Customers were buying them by the armload instead of the brand-name ones that cost twice as much. The electronics salesman told me to my face that they were seeing most of them come back just out of warranty. I still bought one, just on a whim, and damned if it didn't die after five months. A friend of mine bought one at the same time that lasted four months. Yet still, the $35 DVD players are the ones that sell out in stores.

Great story, it ain’t about Wal-Mart. This is about Wal-Mart. Try that brain thing you keep talking about. Keep focused man!

Frankly IF Wal-Mart followed this policy they would be out of business quickly. Making you very happy. Their profits would be lost servicing the returns, that they handle themselves, not the manufacturer. Unlike most retailers that charge more, require you to deal with the manufacturer. Gosh, how could that be??? I know it’s a brain thing.

Which is what I've been saying all along, and it's taken this long for you to admit it. You and millions others choose to buy products that save you money in the short term at any cost. When offered a choice, you choose to support the Chinese.[

See line about when I bought my Mossberg shotgun. Just how did that support the Chinese? I know I am being irrational again, aren’t I?

It's a difference of opinion and I don't mind that. But to say I'm not rational is, well, irrational. A price point at the most basic level does come from the manufacturer. If something takes $5 worth of iron, $3 in oil, $3 in copper, and a man-hour to make you simply can't honestly charge less. But if your factory is in a country with intentionally undervalued currency, subsidised by the military, and your employees live on the second floor of the warehouse, you can.

I'm have more dislike for the average consumer's lack of informed buying than I do Wal-Mart's business model. They're simply realizing consumers will whore themselves out to get a cheap television and are taking advantage of the situation.

Ah… we come to the crux of the issue. Your obvious superiority to us peasants. We are obviously uninformed.

By the way, where did you pay more for a Television that was made in the United States? Sorry didn’t mean to muddy up your rational thinking with facts.

I think we need to look very carefully who is who’s whore. It is obvious you believe deeply in what you believe in. But I ain’t into religion on this issue. I would rather spend my money based on BRAINS, RATIONALITY, AND MY POCKET BOOK.

If you don’t like the global economy, you are in deep Kimshe. But that ain’t my windmill, it's yours.

Oh, take an economics course or two, you may be amazed at how much I WOULD LEARN from that.

Go figure.

Fred

 

[Picknlittle]

As one who despises, loathes, even hates WalMart I'll have to say it's not because of their stuff, it's the leadership. I knew Sam Walton many years ago and was privy to many of his ideas and ideals. There were things about the success of his then, fledgling business that broke his heart, and things that he firmly disagreed with.

Since Sam's kids have taken over, and long before he passed, Sam's ideals have fallen to the wayside. The place disgust me, but it's not due to poor or substandard products. It's them chilluns!

 

[ABTOMAT]

double-tap

 

[ABTOMAT]

You're reading things into what I typed that aren't there, and missing what is. It's not all about Wal-Mart, a good deal my last two posts was more about the tides of things in general. My VERY FIRST POST said "Wal-Mart type of business practices" and I never singled them out as some great standalone evil.

Any company that becomes a large enough player can dictate the market. It's simply a matter of size, in any company. How far they take using this advantage is up to the company. Buying a Mossberg at Wal-Mart isn't putting anyone out of business, other than gun stores who can't compete with volume sales. But if a gun company had to devote 90% of their production to filling a box store's contract, the box store could tell them to drop prices and start making guns in Bangladesh or they'd drop them like a hot rock.

Of course I didn't buy a US made TV, we've been out of the business of making them for over a decade. I have a Mexican-made, Japanese owned TV that I got for free because it failed outside the warranty period and no one would try the five-minute fix I used to repair it. And as far as the DVD thing, no one was suffering because they were out of warranty and past the return period. That's how it works these days, people buy junk that they have no recourse against other than not buying that brand. But brands are fleeting even though everything's made by the same nameless factories.

I'm not a socialist and I'm not superior to anyone else. Just have a different opinion, maybe correct maybe not. Why do radical liberals keep getting elected, why have anti-gun feelings spread so far, why are some states in the process of going against the laws of the country and allowing illegal immigrants to take over? It's because a majority of the people in those areas think that way. I assume you disagree with some of those views, so does that make you superior to the average peasant?

I'm not against globalization, but it's not always a good thing. When you completely give up aspects of living and survival to other countries you lose strength. That's not even going into the really bizarre current issues like government-sanctioned widespread intellectual properly theft and industrial forgeries.

My logic may be different from yours but my thoughts are based on just as much reason as anyone else. Lay off the name calling and sniping, show some decorum. This obvisouly is an emotional subject for you, so I'm going to let this thread settle and get back to firearms discussion. We'll see how things go a few years down the road and decide what, if any, of this was meaningful.

 

[Kurt_D]

Think about it guys, who's going to get the best pricing from Remington? Wal-mart or Academy who buy by the thousands or your local FFL who buys 10 or so from a distributor who themself make a mark-up?

Literally Wal-mart buys more guns than some distributors. That's why your local FFL can't beat Wal-mart or Academy on guns like a base 10/22 or 870. Now for a special order gun or upper end models, your local FFL can atleast match those big retailers because the playing field levels out.

Yes, some manufactures will make special models for retailers like Wal-mart. It makes sense. Wal-mart wants/thinks it can sell a lot of 10/22 rifles instead of the standard carbine. (I beleive I've read Wal-mart sells more 10/22s for Ruger than any other buyer) Ruger doesn't make a rifle model. Ruger will be more likely to tool up for a run of rifles when Wal-mart commits to buy 10,000 units.

I'll admit, I bought my Beretta NEOs from Academy instead of my local FFL. Academy beat him buy $50 on this popular model, probably because they bought a few thousand at one time. Same with my 10/22, I bought it from Wally World. However, I've bought all my ARs and other pistols from him as, at minium, he matches them if not flat out beats them in price.

 

[JohnBT]

Does Wal-Mart sell special stuff? Yes.

I don't know much about Wal-Mart guns. Got a great deal on the Rem 1100 synthetic once.

Shopping for a tv for my father, I saw a Samsung 32" lcd tv at WM for $950. Model LN-T3232H.

Circuit City had a LN-T3242H and a LN-T3253H. Both 32" and dead ringers for the one at WM.

After doing a little surfing on the subject, I discovered that Samsung makes the 3232 for 'selected retailers'. The 3242 is the bottom of the normal line and the 3253 is significantly better.

I bought the 3253 at Circuit City for $899. That's $51 less than WM's dumbed down model. The two numbers that stick in my mind were the brightness and contrast. The one at CC was 8000:1 and 550. The one across the parking lot at WM for more money was 5000:1 and 500.

All for $51 more at Wal-Mart.

John

_____________

Review:

the LN-T32H series is reserved for selected distributors and isn't available in many places, so it's not the company's official entry-level line. We haven't reviewed any of these models, so we don't know for sure, but we expect them to perform slightly worse than the LN-T42H series, on account of their lower contrast-ratio specs. They also lack picture-in-picture and the third HDMI input on the larger models, but otherwise their specs are very similar to the 42H series

 

[Prince Yamato]

If you don't like Walmart, don't buy from them

If you like good values on certain items, buy from Walmart.

How is it that Walmart ruined small towns but K-mart never did, when in fact K-mart was basically the same entity as Walmart? For that matter, damn you Woolworth and Gold Circle! And while we're at it, down with Macy's for buying out Gold Circle AND Kaufmann's! Department stores are an evil empire! That must be it...

 

[eliphalet]

In simple terms,

"Build a better mouse trap and the world will beat a path to your door".

That's exactly what Sam Walton did, like it or not.
Personally I hope they continue on the path they have been on.
Bottom line, they save me money.

I kinda think we have forgotten this is a "rifle" thread, or is suppose to be, I thought.

 

[CajunBass]

I wonder if people whined this much about Sears, Penny's, Woolworth's, Murphy's, and so on a hundred years ago?

Sears used to have some good deals on guns too. I've still got a couple of them.

 

[joab]

That's exactly what Sam Walton did, like it or not.

What happened to Walmart had nothing to do with Sam Walton

I wonder if people whined this much about Sears, Penny's, Woolworth's, Murphy's, and so on a hundred years ago?

Don't know about that, but I do know we did when the mega Malls started popping up around here

 

[Soybomb]

Where is the sense in thinking that you might give your biggest seller of your products lemons?

 

[chieftain]

Where is the sense in thinking that you might give your biggest seller of your products lemons?

STOP!

Quit throwing logic and reason into this irrational babble of religious beliefs and ideology.

Gee Whiz Guy, you really screwed up.

Wally World is no better or worse than any other retail organization. They ain't perfect. I ain't perfect either, unlike some folks here.

Fred

 

[Rokman]

If you can still find a Wal Mart that sells guns and has the gun you want at a price that you like, then buy the gun. Most Wal Marts in my area stopped selling guns a year ago.

 

[Zoogster]

Several "special" guns have indeed been made for walmart. I believe the 870 express models originaly were for Wal-mart. Before anyone thinks they are no different, they are. Some of the components are cast instead of forged. If you deal with metalurgy you will understand the big difference. Basicly forged is much more durable. Of course they also have a few cosmetic differences that are cheaper as well, and less fit and finish. However since that firearm is already such a good overbuilt design the cheaper version still functioned fine. They are however cheaper and an inferior quality arm, whether you are able to tell or not.

Other companies have also made special "inferior" walmart lines of guns. That does not mean that applies to all firearms at walmart, just that some are intentionaly made cheaper to keep with the large volume, low cost, criteria of the chain. Many others will also be no different than the same model anywhere else.
One of the sad things is many Wal Marts are no longer stocking firearms. Since WalMart is one of the biggest most frequented mainstream stores in our nation that is bad for gun rights and owners. It means the soccer mom that goes back to the sporting section to pick up some sports equipment will not be exposed to rows of firearms not attacking anyone. Just sitting there being good guns. It makes firearms more "sinister" because you have to actualy go to a "firearm" store for exposure. It gives them the persona of those sex shops nobody likes moving into thier area. Suddenly they are bad and off by themselves, specializing in one product only, a naughty bad product(per media). It makes it easier to demonize them and pass laws that hurt ownership.

So by all means if you like a firearm at Wal Mart and wish to show the chain that guns are a valued product, go for it. At the same time don't let your local shops go out of business either so when Walmart stops dealing after putting others out of business you are left high and dry as gun owners.

 

[awilson0407]

With Walmart's pressure on suppliers to lower costs, something has to give and it's not just profit margin. I didn't fall off a turnip truck so don't try to tell me quality doesn't suffer. It may be no more than skipping some QA testing...so good luck if the product that's shipped happens to be first quality. I hate what Walmart has done to America!!! There are some things you just don't want to go to the lowest bidder. Unfortunately, those things are harder and harder to find.

 

[eliphalet]

Several "special" guns have indeed been made for walmart

Very true.

They are however cheaper and an inferior quality arm,

I don't buy that, where's the proof? Can you supply irrefutable data to support that statement?
I suppose the Wranglers I buy there are inferior material too, or the 22 shells or the garden products or maybe the bananas or apples are an inferior variety, maybe the toothpaste?
I wanna see absolutely proof, come on now put up, or shut up.
Gimme a break, I give up!
This has been beat to death without one ounce of proof, I otta know better than to even reply.

 

[Zoogster]

I don't buy that, where's the proof? Can you supply irrefutable data to support that statement?

You can call them up and talk to reps at the company. Now you have to be clever in your questioning as they are not going to put down any of thier products.

The cheaper Express that I gave the example of, is cheaper as an 870 using cast instead of forged parts. However all Mossbergs and Winchesters use cast parts already (and aluminum) and they work just fine and are durable enough. However the quality is still cheaper, the manufacturing process is still cheaper. The Express model made for walmart took several cuts to meet the needs of the walmart chain. However as is seen in the Express model, cheaper designs originaly created and limited to walmart eventualy find thier way to other places as well. This goes not just for guns but for other products. There is a bigger profit margin for Walmart type products which is why they were designed in the first place. So they could be sold for less and still provide profit. So when sold for more at a normal store there is an even greater profit margin.
When people are like you and don't know or notice the difference unless you tell them, then why would I make less profit when I can make more without you noticing? Make you feel like you got a better deal at the same time.

Here is a good list by Dfariswheel at the firing line about the difference in the models between the Express (original Walmart model) and others: http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222037

Like I said you can call up the company and go through them all one at a time. However you need to be creative in how you phrase the questions because they are a business and are not going to put down one of thier popular products.

Other manufacters have made cheaper runs for WalMart. Then when others purchase them wholesale and sell them at places besides walmart they have greater profit margin and can sell them for less than the competitors models (or for the same and make even more profit, giving even greater incentive to stock the "walmart special" models). So the competitors start to make thier cheap versions more mainstream as well because of people just like you that would not know the difference even if you tell them. You would have to spend lots of time explaining to them they are getting an inferior product. If the average person is that naive about what they are buying, why not just let them think what they want and buy inferior quality and be happy? The firearm will still function. You will make even more profit than normal.
The reason I care is because when too many customers become that naive the quality drops without anyone noticing and without effecting thier business. The higher quality models get phased out, or start to suffer the same shortcut methods. The lower quality models become the norm. I would rather not see that happen. Yet sometimes you have to argue with people that are like talking to a brick wall to accomplish that and have them see the light of day.
Some of Walmarts products are cheaper because of thier massive distribution center. Some are cheaper because they are made in foriegn locations by people paid very little per hour who are not entitled to medical, dental, retirement benefits and all the other employee expenses here. And still yet some are cheaper because they are made cheaper with cost cutting corners taken and in bulk. This is especialy true of items not sold in massive quantities, like firearms, where enough profit to justify lower prices has to be created by other methods (unlike the other examples you give which are not high priced items and are sold in much larger per capita customer numbers). Many of the products are a combination of these variables which allow Walmart to offer products cheaper than others.

 

[joab]

You can call them up and talk to reps at the company. Now you have to be clever in your questioning as they are not going to put down any of their products.

In all fairness he asked you to prove your argument not for a way for him to prove it for you

You use Dfaris to support your point that the Express was a Wal0Mart driven gun
But his own words dispute this and point to a more reasonable explanation

made to compete with the cheaper to make Winchester and Mossberg guns.

Think about it
Why would a company supply inferior quality to one of the biggest retailers of it's product

Large companies routinely used to destroy products with the very minorest of blems to protect the integrity of their brand
Using your reasoning they have now embraced and participated in the defamation of their own corporate images

 

[Zoogster]

Because these cheaper products are still functioning well and getting good reviews. It is not like they are falling apart. If they still get good reviews, can be made for less, then the amount of degredation in quality is not effecting thier image. They are STILL inferior products.

 

[joab]

They are STILL inferior products.

Again
Source?

Just because Remington makes a product that is

made to compete with the cheaper to make Winchester and Mossberg guns.

and chooses Wal Mart as their primary initial outlet does not mean that Wal Mart has commissioned the product

 

[chieftain]

With Walmart's pressure on suppliers to lower costs, something has to give and it's not just profit margin. I didn't fall off a turnip truck so don't try to tell me quality doesn't suffer. It may be no more than skipping some QA testing...so good luck if the product that's shipped happens to be first quality. I hate what Walmart has done to America!!! There are some things you just don't want to go to the lowest bidder. Unfortunately, those things are harder and harder to find.

What has Wal-Mart done to America? America produced Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart did not produce America.

Unfortunately, the American government has been going to the lowest bidder a lot longer than Wal-Mart has been around.

We used to remind anyone making their first jump, the 'chute was made by the lowest bidder. I guess that ruined America with your logic.

If a supplier is selling less than first quality products to Wal-Mart, then Wal-Mart is the injured party, not the abuser. If a supplier cannot make their same quality product at the price Wally wants, it should say so, and back out.

Most will not, because they like those big contracts. typical, blame the victim, because they are big and successful, let the criminal plead, "it's not my fault!"

Earlier, a fellow accused those who shop at Wally World of being Whores, and sheep. When I pointed out that a group of a certain political persuasion usually did that, he accused me of calling people names.

Man, that is right out of a certain political persuasions play book. Blame the victim for doing what you are doing, and make counter claims. Anything but face the issue.

AS to the fellow who said he didn't fall off the turnip truck. Well maybe he should.

Wal-Marts suppliers apparently are unable to fend for themselves. None of them, according to many folks, are able to use the magic words, "NO".

Would they sell less, probably, but that is what they should do, if they cannot compete. In the end, just like with individuals, it is about personal responsibility.

But then the elitists, always know better than the rest of us ignorant, whoring, sheepish, peasants. (to use the words used in this thread about those of us that shop at Wal-Mart)

Go figure.

Fred