Lupinus
Member
thanks for summing that up drav
Wal-Mart raised .45 ACP prices again!
- Thread starter Black Majik
- Start date
- Status
45Badger
Member
And add to that the velocity or time in the supply chain system. Gas spends a heck of a lot less time "sitting on the shelf" (than bullets or other hard goods).
The futures markets determine raw material cost. The oil/gas bought at last quarter's higher values has already gone from producer to end user. The bullets whose lead/copper/etc was bought at those higher values may not even be made yet, much less through the system into your local retailer.
There tends to be a lot more volatility and faster swings (up and down) on products that have consistent, very high consumer demand. If bullets were as popular as gas, most of us could not afford to shoot
The futures markets determine raw material cost. The oil/gas bought at last quarter's higher values has already gone from producer to end user. The bullets whose lead/copper/etc was bought at those higher values may not even be made yet, much less through the system into your local retailer.
There tends to be a lot more volatility and faster swings (up and down) on products that have consistent, very high consumer demand. If bullets were as popular as gas, most of us could not afford to shoot
James T Thomas
Member
corporate globalism cyber masters
I tend to agree with Lou629 on this one.
When Walmart became big; a market force to be reconed with, it insisted that it's vendors provide the ubitiquous bar coding on all it's shipments and products, or not supply to Walmart. Well they caved in as we all are aware of and so today we have the RFID imbedments, the grocery chain "advantage" cards, etc. All begun by seemingly innocuous Walmart. "Have a good day."
My supposition is that big, powerful old Walmart is attempting to set market prices, and particularly on ammunition! Oh, yes, "compteition" keeps the prices down, but just try and compete with Walmart and the biggies. They can hold out while the little guy strangles, and by transferring losses from one division, and spreading it out amoung many other profitable divisions, time is gained until the smaller business are exhausted.
Some of the theories of "Economics 101" are being made retro right before our eyes.
I'm not old enough to having lived through the economic era of monopolies, but from what I've seen of the twentyfirst century, the corporations have nullified and bypassed all the old regulations, have infiltrated our government protections, and are busy expanding and consuming everything in their path.
That goes for the demise of the firearms and ammo companies also.
I tend to agree with Lou629 on this one.
When Walmart became big; a market force to be reconed with, it insisted that it's vendors provide the ubitiquous bar coding on all it's shipments and products, or not supply to Walmart. Well they caved in as we all are aware of and so today we have the RFID imbedments, the grocery chain "advantage" cards, etc. All begun by seemingly innocuous Walmart. "Have a good day."
My supposition is that big, powerful old Walmart is attempting to set market prices, and particularly on ammunition! Oh, yes, "compteition" keeps the prices down, but just try and compete with Walmart and the biggies. They can hold out while the little guy strangles, and by transferring losses from one division, and spreading it out amoung many other profitable divisions, time is gained until the smaller business are exhausted.
Some of the theories of "Economics 101" are being made retro right before our eyes.
I'm not old enough to having lived through the economic era of monopolies, but from what I've seen of the twentyfirst century, the corporations have nullified and bypassed all the old regulations, have infiltrated our government protections, and are busy expanding and consuming everything in their path.
That goes for the demise of the firearms and ammo companies also.
cedjunior
Member
On one hand we have numbers, long established trends, and facts supporting the "Supply and Demand" argument. On the other hand we have conspriracy theories, opinions and suppositions supporting the "Greed" argument. I'll go with the supply and demand argument.
DRAVUR...
I don't use or buy anything from Google, so i don't feel the effect of having my pocket picked by them. I do however directly feel the effect of being fleeced by the likes of exxon, Walmart or Dicks' Sporting Goods, for that matter.
Wally World does currently have about the best pricing around on ammo. However, that price is at least 30% higher than it was last year at this time, and the commodities that you mention, along with gasoline, have all gone down in the past 6 months.
By using your theory and argument then, we should see a 30% reduction by April. Fat chance! If anything, they'll think of another excuse to raise the prices even more. I am willing to bet more than lunch money on that outcome. PM me if you like.
I don't use or buy anything from Google, so i don't feel the effect of having my pocket picked by them. I do however directly feel the effect of being fleeced by the likes of exxon, Walmart or Dicks' Sporting Goods, for that matter.
Wally World does currently have about the best pricing around on ammo. However, that price is at least 30% higher than it was last year at this time, and the commodities that you mention, along with gasoline, have all gone down in the past 6 months.
By using your theory and argument then, we should see a 30% reduction by April. Fat chance! If anything, they'll think of another excuse to raise the prices even more. I am willing to bet more than lunch money on that outcome. PM me if you like.
SoCalShooter
Member
Ordering online is usually cheaper or you could do what I do and load my own...only cost me 55 dollars for 500 200gr SWC lead bullets....roughly costs me about 15cents a round to manufacture them myself. (I think)
WayneConrad
Member
See you over in the reloading forum, friend.
SoCalShooter
Member
I will check it out.
atek3
Member
Dravur, thanks for saving the 20 minutes typing up a well reasoned response such as yours. Despite it however some people still want to believe in "gouging and greed", oh well, not everyone passes econ 101 their first time around...
atek3
atek3
If you get into reloading, which I did 'cause my wife and I both shoot, try http://www.precisionbullets.com. These are cheaper than FMJ, Polymer coated so reduced lead exposure, safe for indoors. 2K 230gr RN for $130, Midway had 2K 230gr FMJ Raineirs for $160. Save your brass I ran a calculation (spreadsheet can be found in the reloading forum) and it will take ~4 months of shooting to recover the cost of the press. I found a used one on Ebay. Good luck.
I ran a calculation (spreadsheet can be found in the reloading forum) and it will take ~4 months of shooting to recover the cost of the press. I found a used one on Ebay. Good luck.George S.
Member
Wally World can't really be blamed for the increase in the price of ammo. Metals like brass and copper are going up in price and that eventually hits ammo makers and then the buyers.
I reload a lot of .45ACP and I have figured out that I can reload for about 60% of the cost of new ammo like WWB, Federal, S&B, and UMC brands in 230gr FMJ. I buy 230gr Rainier coppercoat FMJ and W231 or Unique for .45 and my Lee turret press cranks out hundreds of rounds at a sitting with no effort.
Any of these brands seem to work equally well in my Springer 1911 or Taurus PT145. WWB is just as accurate as the others, and outside of being slightly dirty, I tend to buy more of it than the other brands and keep the brass for reloading.
I reload a lot of .45ACP and I have figured out that I can reload for about 60% of the cost of new ammo like WWB, Federal, S&B, and UMC brands in 230gr FMJ. I buy 230gr Rainier coppercoat FMJ and W231 or Unique for .45 and my Lee turret press cranks out hundreds of rounds at a sitting with no effort.
Any of these brands seem to work equally well in my Springer 1911 or Taurus PT145. WWB is just as accurate as the others, and outside of being slightly dirty, I tend to buy more of it than the other brands and keep the brass for reloading.
Hanzo581
Member
ok with all this talk, I have a pretty basic question, if I want to start loading my own .45 acp how much would the initial start up cost for the machines?
lowest cost possible
lowest cost possible
dragongoddess
member
Stopped by my local Wally World to check out this price increase stuff. CCI Brass .45ACP is still going for $9.97 for a box of 50 230 grain FMJ. No price change here.
Bruce333
Member
Hanzo581 said:
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=18835
reload? to save money?
Bwahahahahaha!!!
That's like getting a C&R to save money!
Joe Demko
Member
The Democrats, Feminazis, NAMBLA, Librals, ACLU, Brady Bunch, and Bill Clinton are all, somehow, to blame...and libertarians are also to blame for not doing enough to stop them.
SoCalShooter
Member
Re: Hanzo581
Depends on how much you want to spend and how many bullets you want to do.
A brand new Dillon Super 1050 will run you about 1400 for just the press, then you need dies in different calibers or just one caliber, the press will usually come with one die of your choice.
http://www.brianenos.com/store/dillon.1050.html
http://dillonprecision.com/default.cfm?
You will want:
1.Bullet tray
2. maintenance and spare parts ( i loose and break stuff)
3. Primer tubes, you will want atleast two of LP and SP
4. You may want a case feed plate in different calibers
5. Powder checker
6. Universal mounting kit
7.more more and etc
Granted the 1050 is an commercial grade loading press but once you get the hang of it and get rythm you should be able to do about 1000+ rounds in an hour if you are quick.
Depends on how much you want to spend and how many bullets you want to do.
A brand new Dillon Super 1050 will run you about 1400 for just the press, then you need dies in different calibers or just one caliber, the press will usually come with one die of your choice.
http://www.brianenos.com/store/dillon.1050.html
http://dillonprecision.com/default.cfm?
You will want:
1.Bullet tray
2. maintenance and spare parts ( i loose and break stuff)
3. Primer tubes, you will want atleast two of LP and SP
4. You may want a case feed plate in different calibers
5. Powder checker
6. Universal mounting kit
7.more more and etc
Granted the 1050 is an commercial grade loading press but once you get the hang of it and get rythm you should be able to do about 1000+ rounds in an hour if you are quick.
Hanzo581
Member
thanks Bru
I will just stick with the store bought stuff
I will just stick with the store bought stuff
SoCalShooter
Member
From the link from Bru
Steve Smith quote:
"#1 Don't get into reloading if you just want to save money. Chances are great that you'll spend just as much as you already do on ammo, but you'll shoot a lot more. Either that or you'll go off the deep end (like may of us) and start experimenting with expensive components to see what will happen "if."
Steve Smith quote:
"#1 Don't get into reloading if you just want to save money. Chances are great that you'll spend just as much as you already do on ammo, but you'll shoot a lot more. Either that or you'll go off the deep end (like may of us) and start experimenting with expensive components to see what will happen "if."
Aguila Blanca
Member
If you exclude used equipment (which can be a bargain), the least expensive entry into reloading would probably be the Lee "Anniversary" kit, from someplace such as Natchez Shooting Supply. For around $85 or $90 you get a single stage press, a couple of case holders, a scale for weighing powder, and a basic reloading manual. Add dies for the caliber you want to load and you're in business.Hanzo581 said:
But the press in the Anniversary kit is a single stage press, meaning you have to run a number of carrtidges through one step in the process, then stop and change dies before performing the next step. A turret press is faster and a lot more convenient.
Hanzo,
Dillon 550B new with .45 dies and shell plate $365, scale $40, calipers $20, primer flip tray $20, so under $500 to get you started. You could do what I did and find a used one for that price with all the trimmings + couple die sets, powder measure, etc. Check out the stickies on the reloading forum.
Dillon 550B new with .45 dies and shell plate $365, scale $40, calipers $20, primer flip tray $20, so under $500 to get you started. You could do what I did and find a used one for that price with all the trimmings + couple die sets, powder measure, etc. Check out the stickies on the reloading forum.
Hanzo581
Member
hmm...I may actually look into it, thanks
Dr. Dickie
Member
The bottom line is:
If you aren't re-loading, you either TOO RICH or you AREN'T SHOOTING ENOUGH
If you aren't re-loading, you either TOO RICH or you AREN'T SHOOTING ENOUGH
Lupinus
Member
if you go to midwayusa.com they have a kit which will allow you to do everything you can with the annaversary kit, but comes with a turret press.
Costs the same as the single stage kit with modern reloading so you will have to get a manual seperatly.
May want to check your local library and pick up a copy of a reloading manual, many seem to have the abc's of reloading.
Costs the same as the single stage kit with modern reloading so you will have to get a manual seperatly.
May want to check your local library and pick up a copy of a reloading manual, many seem to have the abc's of reloading.
Zen21Tao
Member
Wow, so much Walmart bashing for raising their prices. I remember when Walmart was lowering prices all the complaining that they were lowering prices to drive small businesses under. I guess Walmart just can't do right by some people.
So I guess if the cost of gas, cost of lead, lost of brass, cost of powder, and cost or primers are going up Walmart should allow its already low profit margins to fall and keep prices the same. Sorry guys, that's not how capitalism and economics works.
So I guess if the cost of gas, cost of lead, lost of brass, cost of powder, and cost or primers are going up Walmart should allow its already low profit margins to fall and keep prices the same. Sorry guys, that's not how capitalism and economics works.
- Status
