HeavyDuty
Member
Good catch.
Walmart goes anti-gun
- Thread starter GunDoctor
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Good catch.
Aguila Blanca
Member
I have bought ammunition in Wal*Marts in several states, including Connecticut, and I have never been asked to provide either a DL or a CCW.
'Course, it might be because it's been a loooong time since anyone might have thought I was under 18, or even under 21. Mostly, they don't even ask -- I hear the register beed when they scan the box, I know the screen is showing the "age?" prompt, and the clerks mostly just look at me and hit the "Yes" key.
Asking for a DL or a CCW might be a particular store's policy, but it isn't Wal*Mart's corporate policy.
22-rimfire
Member
There are something like 12 Walmart Super Centers within 20 miles of where I live. Within 50 miles, the number climbs to something like 35. Pretty amazing really.
Walmart is killing small town stores. They are killing Kmart. Target seems to have found a comfortable niche in the market. But Target does not sell guns or ammunition at any store I have been in for a long time. Nobody complains about them. Carry concealed. I don't like the apparent attitude of some of the open carry folks; the average citizen is just not ready for this step yet. Give it time.
Walmart centralized the sale of firearms to certain stores in each region. I see that as a smart business decision. They sell ammunition at most stores however.
Walmart is killing small town stores. They are killing Kmart. Target seems to have found a comfortable niche in the market. But Target does not sell guns or ammunition at any store I have been in for a long time. Nobody complains about them. Carry concealed. I don't like the apparent attitude of some of the open carry folks; the average citizen is just not ready for this step yet. Give it time.
Walmart centralized the sale of firearms to certain stores in each region. I see that as a smart business decision. They sell ammunition at most stores however.
AK103K
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Ditto here. I never understood why you would want to open carry in the first place, especially these days.
I was in a local Walmart here in PA a few months back when a boy came walking through with an openly holstered handgun on his belt. It was like a parade and was actually causing somewhat of a commotion, especially amongst store staff. Why would you want to draw that kind of attention to yourself? Open carry has been in the news a couple of times in recent months here, and all it does is rile up the sheep and aggravate the police. Seems to me, even if your 100% legal in doing so, if your causing a scene and and frightening the general public, they can still charge you with disorderly conduct or some other trivial nonsense type charges. Is it really worth the aggravation?
I guess some people just dont get any attention at home.
I feel the same way: CCW makes it all so much easier.
However, then I looked at the money for the class and whatnot, plus the waiting period for the issuance (not the background check waiting period - the waiting period for them to process it through the court), not to mention waiting lists to actually take the class. You can drop as much as 200 bucks and wait as long as 3-4 months.
that is when I realized why people like open carry: it's free if you already have a good holster.
However, then I looked at the money for the class and whatnot, plus the waiting period for the issuance (not the background check waiting period - the waiting period for them to process it through the court), not to mention waiting lists to actually take the class. You can drop as much as 200 bucks and wait as long as 3-4 months.
that is when I realized why people like open carry: it's free if you already have a good holster.
22-rimfire
Member
There are a lot of classes given here. You won't have to wait longer than a week or so. IF one is filled up, you take another. They run them all the time. As far as the time goes, I can sympathize, but like drilling for oil, there is no better time than the present to get on board. You might even learn a few things when you take the class.
chris in va
Member
It was at a Sam's Club.
So, let's just go ahead and make it illegal. Not worth the aggrivation, right?
Aaron Baker
Member
Well, except not really... they're saying that if they find out someone is concealed carrying, they'll ask them to leave.
That doesn't mean you can't. If there's no notice at the door, and you don't "know" about the policy, then you don't have any notice that you shouldn't be carrying.
If concealed means concealed, like it's supposed to, then who would ever know? If it's concealed, you won't be asked to leave, because they won't know.
Also, people seem to be suggesting that this is a change in corporate policy. I doubt it. It sounds like a specific store manager had a problem with a specific open carrier, and he asked corporate for legal advice. An individual corporate attorney gave him the specific advice he wanted. He's telling him that he has the right, as the store manager, under state law, to ask the guy to leave. That doesn't necessarily reflect Walmart's corporate policy.
Ask a legal question, get a legal answer. Ask a corporate policy question, the answer might be different.
I don't shop at Walmart anyway, as a matter of principal.
Aaron
That doesn't mean you can't. If there's no notice at the door, and you don't "know" about the policy, then you don't have any notice that you shouldn't be carrying.
If concealed means concealed, like it's supposed to, then who would ever know? If it's concealed, you won't be asked to leave, because they won't know.
Also, people seem to be suggesting that this is a change in corporate policy. I doubt it. It sounds like a specific store manager had a problem with a specific open carrier, and he asked corporate for legal advice. An individual corporate attorney gave him the specific advice he wanted. He's telling him that he has the right, as the store manager, under state law, to ask the guy to leave. That doesn't necessarily reflect Walmart's corporate policy.
Ask a legal question, get a legal answer. Ask a corporate policy question, the answer might be different.
I don't shop at Walmart anyway, as a matter of principal.
Aaron
George Hill
Member
"Yeah, but WALMART is .35 cents less for a box of Winchester bulk! I'm going to keep buying my stuff from Walmart! I don't care. I have to drive a mile and a half farther to buy ammo or a new gun from a real gunshop. I don't care if they Perp Walk me out of the store even though I just passed a background check!" - Typical Walmart Customer.
SCREW WALMART.
SCREW WALMART.
chaim
Member
I noticed that too. In some states with shall issue it is a crime to CCW in a private business that is posted as no CCW. However, their legal dept is even telling them they don't need a sign, most state laws I know of say they need the sign. So those who say "CCW anyway" may be OK if they don't post.
Still, brings the issue I brought up earlier: what good are shall issue CCW laws if they only place you can carry is on a walk or on a drive but you can't stop anywhere because most/all businesses ban carry on their property?
I don't set foot in Walmart any more than I have to (rarely, they may have something I need and I'm having trouble finding it elsewhere). I never buy ammo there anymore. I couldn't buy guns from them even if I wanted to, I don't know of a local Walmart that carries guns anymore.
chaim
Member
If Target ever carried guns and ammo, it was long before they entered my market area. There is a big difference between having sold guns and ammo in the past and now ending that business over perceived liability, caving to antis, or whatever, and never having sold them to begin with (I also shop at my local grocery store even though they never sold guns and ammo, it isn't part of their business).
dmazur
Member
OK, I read the whole thread and I see a lot of "private property" rights statements, black people can't leave their skin color at the door, and similar.
This may have had some validity pre-Heller, and I know Heller was only the start of the process or reversing the erosion of gun rights, but really -
Don't we believe that the 2nd Amendment was intended to protect a right to self-defense? (Not grant, but protect a prior inalienable right.)
When this basic right is found to be a right similar to other civil rights, we will have the same protection as female workers have against gender discrimination and people of color have against racial discrimination.
The fact that you can leave you gun in your car isn't the point. The property owner is discriminating against individuals who desire to protect themselves from serious injury, without providing a guaranteed space which makes that unnecessary. (Such as a nuclear power plant with metal detectors and a serious armed security force. They could argue that it is unlikely that you will encounter criminals inside the plant, so please leave weapons outside.)
I understand that present law permits them to discriminate in such a fashion. However, if we believe in the RKBA, how can we continue to support such discrimination?
It may be legal, but that doesn't make it right.
This may have had some validity pre-Heller, and I know Heller was only the start of the process or reversing the erosion of gun rights, but really -
Don't we believe that the 2nd Amendment was intended to protect a right to self-defense? (Not grant, but protect a prior inalienable right.)
When this basic right is found to be a right similar to other civil rights, we will have the same protection as female workers have against gender discrimination and people of color have against racial discrimination.
The fact that you can leave you gun in your car isn't the point. The property owner is discriminating against individuals who desire to protect themselves from serious injury, without providing a guaranteed space which makes that unnecessary. (Such as a nuclear power plant with metal detectors and a serious armed security force. They could argue that it is unlikely that you will encounter criminals inside the plant, so please leave weapons outside.)
I understand that present law permits them to discriminate in such a fashion. However, if we believe in the RKBA, how can we continue to support such discrimination?
It may be legal, but that doesn't make it right.
atblis
Member
Well
I'd wager that most people on here don't go to Target very often. About once year or less for me. Asides from Rittersport Chocolate, they don't sell anything I want.
bogie said:
I would assume, it's only those "in your face open carry folks" of which you refer to? Since not all OC'rs are there for the attention you describe.
Please explain these "in-yer-face" tactics which you speak of, and how many is 'a LOT'?. Please use some examples, since there should be 'a LOT' of them. (one out of a few thousand isn't going to cut it either, same could be said for about anything, you always have the extremes)
Please also explain how it's a "movement" and what "stuff" that it's too soon to be done for. Are you referring to the Heller decision as somehow sparking an OC pandemic? Or what other events are you saying the OC'rs are moving too fast on?
I'd simply like to know. As an OCer who carried before I even studied up on what Heller was, and as an OCer who didn't use the later decision as a reason or excuse to OC either. I also haven't used any previous case, ruling, decision, meeting etc to OC. I simply do because I do.
AK103K
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I never said that we should make anything illegal, I simply asked if its worth the aggravation. Its certainly not worth mine. But hey, if you want to open carry, knock yourself out. Makes it a lot easier to see who has a gun and who doesnt, which I personally think is a big down side to it, and all the attention you gather takes the attention of those of us that would prefer to remain anonymous.
Maybe to put this in a little different light......
So you have a somebody coming over to give you a price on some work you want done around the house, and when he shows up, you "really" dont like the looks of him right off. Then he turns to the side, and hes wearing a gun. You going to ask him to come in, or not? Its your house, your rules. How are you feeling right about now?
If Walmart doesnt want you open carrying on their property, thats their prerogative. Quit your bitchin' and cover up or put it away, or go try it at Target, or K Mart, and see how you make out there. I'm sure you wont be hard to find, and you know how they always make you look on the 6 O'Clock news.(by the time they get done with the effects, you'll have a mullet and no teeth and rambling on like an idjit about lights or rights, or some such thing.) Hows that for attention, now EVERYBODY knows your a retard with a chip on their shoulder, AND a gun. Lucky You.
neviander
Member
That's how banning smoking started, coerce private businesses into making a no smoking policy; now there are LAWS against it. They just passed an ordinance here in Tyler, TX that prohibits smoking in ANY public place, bars included
I try to keep in mind one of my favorite truisms: The squeaky wheel gets the grease, that's how the anti's get what they want, they just keep whining and moaning, while the sane citizens are busy trying raise their families...We just need to stay squeakier than them
dracphelan
Member
I suggest that everyone spend a large amount of money at a competitor (remember, grocery stores are competitors for most Walmarts) and fax a copy of the receipt with a note explaining that you would have spent this money at there stores, but you won't go in because they don't allow conceal carry.
When you demonstrate that their policy is costing them money, you might get the policy changed.
I still say Sam Walton (Walmart's founder) would be spinning in his grave if he saw the company today. He insisted on trying to find US suppliers whenever possible. And, he have free Sam's memberships to members of the military. Both of these policies changed shortly after he died.
When you demonstrate that their policy is costing them money, you might get the policy changed.
I still say Sam Walton (Walmart's founder) would be spinning in his grave if he saw the company today. He insisted on trying to find US suppliers whenever possible. And, he have free Sam's memberships to members of the military. Both of these policies changed shortly after he died.
Novus Collectus
Member
A while back a Wal-Mart employee was attacked by an ex-husband while in the store. She was repeatedly stabbed and was seconds away from death when.....a concealed carry permit holder shot him and saved her life.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soZT__WQKsM (the video starts 16 seconds in so let it run for a little. It takes forever to load too, but it is worth the wait.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soZT__WQKsM (the video starts 16 seconds in so let it run for a little. It takes forever to load too, but it is worth the wait.)
sig2022shooter
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Wonder if this is because of that guy that recently shot himself in the leg with his CCW while in a wal-mart in Florida.
esmith
Member
Oh so i guess those people are forced to work there. Yeah, and peope are forced to shop there too. Don't like it, don't work or shop there.
I, personally, will shop to get the best buy. Say i want a shovel. Why would i go to the mom and pop store to buy the same Do It Best shovel for 5 bucks more that I can get at Wal-Mart? Because i feel sorry because they can't compete? Hell no, even if i did get a shovel from them it wouldn't help. Wal-Mart is good for one thing, getting stuff that you need that doesn't require a lot of service from Wal-Mart.
Green Lantern
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Hmmm...by jove Holmes, you might be on to something!
As for the "CCW anyway" people, this is worth repeating:
Sure, if they think they don't need a sign, they're dead wrong in most states, thus you ARE legal to CCW in there...
But given that it's plain that they don't want ya to, why do you want to help line their pockets???
ASM826
Member
It isn't up to you.
Just like you have no control over how other people exercise their First Amendment rights, even if you totally disagree with them, you have no control over how someone chooses to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights. They can form an organization, solicit members, promote open carry. You can think they should be more restrained, you can choose to not join them and their organization, but no amount of care on your part is going to change what they choose to do.
So you have a right to the 2nd, but the workman doesn't? If you don't like his looks, send him on his way. If it's just the fact he carrying, well, at least you know it if he's open carrying. If we are taking a stand for the 2nd Amendment, and saying that we believe in the right of the people to carry arms, it doesn't just mean the ones we like the looks of, or the ones from our ethnic group, or just us, the members of THR, it means all the people. If you want him to carry, but you just don't want to see it, then you don't understand his rights.
Just like you have no control over how other people exercise their First Amendment rights, even if you totally disagree with them, you have no control over how someone chooses to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights. They can form an organization, solicit members, promote open carry. You can think they should be more restrained, you can choose to not join them and their organization, but no amount of care on your part is going to change what they choose to do.
So you have a right to the 2nd, but the workman doesn't? If you don't like his looks, send him on his way. If it's just the fact he carrying, well, at least you know it if he's open carrying. If we are taking a stand for the 2nd Amendment, and saying that we believe in the right of the people to carry arms, it doesn't just mean the ones we like the looks of, or the ones from our ethnic group, or just us, the members of THR, it means all the people. If you want him to carry, but you just don't want to see it, then you don't understand his rights.
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