Wanye is out of his mind

[RX-178]

I think bringing up video games was a very bad move, on a strategic level.

The video game industry, and video gamers as a whole have had to fight the current crop of legislation infringing on their rights for about as long as we have (from the 1990s up through now).

They're just as passionate about their 1st amendment rights as we are about the 2nd, they can organize on the internet faster than any other group of people, and with the headline 'NRA President blames violent video games', they're probably going to come after us now.

 

[M-Cameron]

you know, i didnt really read it as a blatant attack on violent video games and movies.......it sounded more like he was criticizing societies glorification of violence, it just sounded like he was using them as an example.

 

[RonC]

"Interesting how the idea that violence in video games and entertainment as a contributor of violent crime gets immediately shunted to X number of books and studies that say otherwise while books & studies that dispel guns as the source of violence is ignored. Hmmmm? "
Grahluk, There are plenty of those as well, but I am dealing with one topic at a time.

I have spent considerable time researching that topic. My preconceived notion was that guns are not the problem. As you suspected, the books and studies do support that with sound data.

I have not found one, single article that supports the contention that guns are the problem, at least not one that has any data to support it.

Ron

 

[Derek Zeanah]

you know, i didnt really read it as a blatant attack on violent video games and movies.......it sounded more like he was criticizing societies glorification of violence, it just sounded like he was using them as an example.

Yep. We're just getting a kneejerk reaction here.

The NRA's solution was to eliminate the gun free school zones so that local schools can figure out how to have armed, trained, and prepared people on staff to end these things more effectively.

The NRA did not suggest banning violent video games, or music videos. They used these as examples of how our culture glorifies violence.

 

[RX-178]

I actually agree with you on that, M-Cameron. It came across to me that he was highlighting their hypocrisy that they can rake in money by selling depictions of graphic 'gun violence', and then demonize companies that sell guns to law-abiding citizens.

But that didn't stop gamespot.com from putting it up as their headline: 'NRA condemns games in wake of Connecticut shooting.'

Or on IGN: 'NRA blames violent entertainment for shootings'

Thankfully the Entertainment Consumer Association's reply was that this is about: 'Mental illness, not violent video games.' (sound familliar?)

My point is, the NRA was definitely the biggest voice in this debate. That could CHANGE if they tick off the video game and entertainment associations enough that they decide to go all in, and advocate gun control to protect their video games.

 

[Jaxondog]

Adio's napalm.

and for the rest of you who say the game's are not to blame, well you just don't get it it. Video game's could very well play a part in these senseless murder's. But not from the million's of kid's that play them every day that are normal kid's. It's the handfull of demented, sick, mentally ill people. Who in their right frame of mind could do something like that? Not someone that is normal that's for sure. As I watched today during the ringing of the bell's and the moment of silence, they put up picture's of the deceased an it actually ran chill's all over me just thinking how sick somebody would have to be to do that to those people. So yes, I think video game's could have played a part cause that was one sick MF'er. JMHO

 

[Cosmoline]

t sounded more like he was criticizing societies glorification of violence, it just sounded like he was using them as an example.

He did quite a bit more than that. He was pretty much quoting Tipper Gore from a generation ago. It was a bad fumble, and it's already given enormous ammo to antis all over:

Videogames, LaPierre said, are part of a “callous, corrupt and corrupting shadow industry that sells and stows violence against its own people.” Other members of the cultural Axis of Evil include music videos, the TMC horror movie double-feature “Splatterdays,” the 1994 film Natural Born Killers, which critiqued the media glorification of mass murderers, and the 20-year-old videogame franchise Mortal Kombat, which features no guns.

http://www.wired.com/underwire/2012/12/nra-video-games/

This dated nonsense is very, very easy to make fun of and reflects badly on all of us. I really do have to wonder whether the editorial decision making at the higher levels of the NRA was just asleep or temporarily insane. Did anyone under the age of 60 have any input in this? They could have asked your average 30-something "what games are you kids playing these days" and gotten some CRITICAL insight into reality.

The best thing the NRA can do now is just reset the spin machine and start over, pretending this never happened. There will be many opportunities to do so, especially once we're talking about actual legislation. Let's get this whole conversation shifted to care for the violently insane where it needs to be. Not just to distract from firearms, but because that actually *IS* where the problem lies.

It came across to me that he was highlighting their hypocrisy that they can rake in money by selling depictions of graphic 'gun violence',

Well then they should have targeted celebrities individually, not tried to revive attacks on fondly remembered old games. Esp. since Wired is right, if there's a firearm featured in Mortal Kombat I sure can't remember it. Maybe it was media glorification of breathing frost at your foe and ripping his spine out?

Who in their right frame of mind could do something like that? Not someone that is normal that's for sure.

Well that's the whole point. The single common thread between these killers is they're nutso. Not just insane but dangerously insane. Sometimes they were known to be dangerously insane. But under our current system it is exceptionally difficult to keep them in custody or even require them to take their meds. Games have NOTHING to do with it. These guys can be inspired to murder by watching commercials on laundry detergent. Or it could be he see a woman on TV and think she's laughing at him. Or maybe the talking cat mascot for cat food is giving him instructions to kill. They're not sane. They don't think like we do.

And we don't need to craft our gun laws or our movies in an effort to calm these nuts. We need to keep them in treatment centers. Cared for, but not free to own firearms, knives or anything else they could injure people with.

 

[Sam Cade]

My point is, the NRA was definitely the biggest voice in this debate. That could CHANGE if they tick off the video game and entertainment associations enough that they decide to go all in, and advocate gun control to protect their video games.

To illustrate:

Videogame industry: $80,000,000,000.

Total domestic firearms industry $28,000,000,000.

NRA yearly operating budget $220,000,000.


Like Jim Croce said, "Don't tug on superman's cape."

 

[beatledog7]

Video games of kinds are not evil per se, but they are arguably contributors to many socio-cultural challenges: glorification of violence, obesity, anti-social behavior, the slacking intellectual standards of today's youth...the blatantly violent ones that encourage people to consider themselves assassins and teach them supposed killing skills are certainly not the sort of thing we ought to be encouraging.

Freedom of expression is an important right, but I choose not to partake. I don't play them at all, and have played them very little in my life. Why not? IMHO, they create no useful skills. Aside from the movies and outside of the industry itself, almost nobody ever got a great job based on his or her video game prowess. Anecdotally, if just 1/2 the Americans who play them spent just 1/2 the time playing them that they do now, and just 1/2 of that saved time studying something useful, we'd have cured AIDS and cancer by now.

OK, flame me. I can take it.

 

[XGibsonX]

It's clear that this be will utterly meaningless to you but indulge me.

LaPierre was NOT engaging in an attempt at discursive argument or critical evaluation of arguments. He was employing the notions of his protagonists. It was polemical. The protagonist puts forth that guns are the enemy. Dumb. Why does it work? Because on some visceral level, at this point in time, it goes over with even moderates on the issue. The notion of violent movies and video games absolutely has gravitas with the older crowd of moderates as well as many middle aged folks who think only a total cretin sits with a piece of plastic in their hands pushing buttons in their spare time when they could devote the precious spare time that one gets toward engaging in conversation or reading important works or furthering their education via textbooks and/or online classes. While they may or may not be correct in their assessment vis-a-vis violent film and video games the truth is it will DIVERT them from guns for a moment. They have a hard wired prejudgement against, "gamers".

It is precisely what the antis do. They employ non sequitors with the emoting demos, and by appealing to their own prejudgements, they get them to listen.

Nevermind.

Insult and attack the best arm that you have in this coming battle. Demonstrate how puerile you are for all to see.

Wonderful.

 

[Sam Cade]

OK, flame me. I can take it.

Obvious troll is obvious.


/meme

 

[Nanook]

Read back in the thread. I never posted this, someone edited a quote.

Actually, it's the third line in your original post, word for word. Look back at your first post.

And for the record, I don't believe a normal balance person would be at all changed by any video game or movie.

Some people, for their good and the good of society, need to be taken care of in an institution. It's that simple. What's not simple is the payment method. Round the clock care is expensive, and most governments say they can't afford it anymore. This is why there are so many homeless mentally ill wandering our cities. They have no place to go.

I don't have an answer, but banning inanimate objects is not the answer.

 

[Cosmoline]

OK, flame me. I can take it.

It's a free country. And of course I don't mind you having that view, even though it's based on a lot of incorrect assumptions and unproven theories. The problem comes when the head of the organization that supposedly represents all of us starts making these claims instead of actually dealing with the enormous challenges facing us now. It forces those of us who know better to be ashamed of having anything to do with the NRA.

I kind of understand the idea of distracting the other side with a debate over video games, except that debate was already held twenty years ago! The video games won! Is it actually possible the NRA leadership didn't know this? Their references to the very games that were at issue in the late 80's and early 90's tells me they truly were not.

 

[M-Cameron]

It's clear that this be will utterly meaningless to you but indulge me.

LaPierre was NOT engaging in an attempt at discursive argument or critical evaluation of arguments. He was employing the notions of his protagonists. It was polemical. The protagonist puts forth that guns are the enemy. Dumb. Why does it work because on some visceral level at this point in time it goes over with even moderates on the issue. The notion of violent movies and video games absolutely has gravitas with the older crowd of moderates as well as many middle aged folks who think only a total cretin sits with a piece of plastic in their hands pushing buttons in their spare time when they could devote the precious spare time that one gets toward engaging in conversation or reading important works or furthering their education via textbooks and/or online classes. While they may or may not be correct in their assessment vis-a-vis violent film and video games the truth is it will DIVERT them from guns for a moment.

It is precisely what the antis do. They employ non sequitors with the emoting demos, and by appealing to their own prejudgements, they get them to listen.

Nevermind.

Insult and attack the best arm that you have in this coming battle. Demonstrate how puerile you are for all to see.

Wonderful.

ok, now i like to consider myself a pretty smart guy........but i didnt understand half of the words you used to write that.....

can someone provide an interpretation for those of use who are a little less 'verbose'.....

 

[SteelyNirvana]

My phone wont let me type out my full tirade response to this due to character limit so I will sum it up. 1st How can you come on here on a public forum where the anti-gun crowd can read everything and bash the one organazation that has swore to protect us? Your making us look bad and IMHO are not faithful to the RKBA. 2nd Wayne had a darn good point about video games. He should have also mentioned shows like Dexter and Criminal minds. If you think there is'nt a problem exposing kids to fictional murder, then maybe YOU have an underlying mental health issue. 3rd IMHO the root of the problem is taking relegion out of schools and erossion of our family values. Think about it, these mass shhotings have just started in the last 20 years which is around the time the liberals starting changing our laws to appease everyone else. Just my .02 from a rare breed 31yr old.

 

[bsctov]

This is not the time to stop supporting the NRA. They need all the help they can get these days, and the folks in this thread who threaten to end their membership don't realize they won't be "getting back at the nra" but rather they will be advancing the anti-gun agenda.

While I think the news conference was a mistake, we are certainly much better with them than without them. Canceling your NRA membership for a reason like that is akin to donating money to Diane Feinstein's Campgain fund.

 

[XGibsonX]

. . . except that debate was already held twenty years ago! The video games won! Is it actually possible the NRA leadership didn't know this?"

Walk in darn near any church in America Sunday and proffer the question and see what response you get.

No need for them to be correct, they only need to operate on the level that tells them they are correct.

Really surprising that people do not have a modicum of understanding how real polemics work.

Anyone who thinks that the adults of the heartland, deluded or not do not still buy into the notion that violence ion movies and video games are not an issue, is either willfully or de facto STUPID.

 

[jcwit]

Video games of kinds are not evil per se, but they are arguably contributors to many socio-cultural challenges: glorification of violence, obesity, anti-social behavior, the slacking intellectual standards of today's youth...the blatantly violent ones that encourage people to consider themselves assassins and teach them supposed killing skills are certainly not the sort of thing we ought to be encouraging.

Frankly I agree, and with said studies can be wrong, and being as the study was taken 20 years ago does not take into account todays games.

Note my post earlier

Video games? Its possible. Remember way back when the Army switched from shooting at bullseyes to targets in the shape of a man, combat hits went up!

SOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Something to think about.

 

[jcwit]

Remember what the special effects looked like 20 years ago compared to todays?

 

[beatledog7]

Sam Cade,

I can have an opinion about video games that differs from yours without being a troll.

Other than being very profitable (as are porn and illegal drugs), what redeeming qualities do they have?

 

[Cesiumsponge]

Expecting an armed presence at every school in America is on the opposite crazy spectrum of "ban all guns".

Table 1.2. Number of school-associated violent deaths of students, staff, and nonstudents, by type: School years 1992–93 to 2009–10
https://nces.ed.gov/programs/crimeindicators/crimeindicators2011/tables/table_01_2.asp
25 PEOPLE (not just students) died in school shootings in 2009.

The same year, NOAA recorded 34 people died in lightning strikes.
http://www.nws.noaa.gov/os/hazstats/light09.pdf

If we're going to put an armed guard in every school across America, we need to first mandate we house every mobile American in a grounded faraday cage first. Your chances of being struck by lightning is about equal to being a victim of a mass school shooting.

The NRA has a long history of compromising with legislators. This has upset enough folks that some people refuse to support the NRA for throwing some folks under the bus in the past. Here is one angry gun owner who took the time to list some incidents: http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/xcibviewitem.asp?id=3247

At the same time, this shows the NRA is NOT the boogey man the Democrats make the NRA out to be. The NRA worked in 2007 with Carolyn McCarthy to strengthen the mental health issues after Virginia Tech.

Video games have nothing to do with anything. We live in a country and time that has probably been as peaceful as society has ever been. Look at what society considered entertainment back in the day. Why settle for football and video games when you could watch real people kill each other for entertainment. Why settle for the modernisms of humane capital punishment when you could take the kids to the town square and enjoy a good burning or hanging. Wayne is simply trying to throw someone else under the bus.

"We think it's reasonable to support the federal Gun-Free School Zones Act. ... We think it's reasonable to expect full enforcement of federal firearms laws by the federal government. ... That's why we support Project Exile -- the fierce prosecution of federal gun laws...we think it's reasonable because it works. ... We only support what works and our list is proud."

—NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre
Congressional Testimony, May 27, 1999

 

[Cosmoline]

Your making us look bad and IMHO are not faithful to the RKBA.

I'm not faithful to Wayne, that's true. But I'll die before I give up my firearms. Will he? Something tells me no, he'd cave. I don't entirely trust the NRA. Nor should you. And when it comes time to smack them, we need to smack them. This is one of those times. Certainly before things go fully off-rail and we end up handing Biden an unexpected victory. There's still time to fix this! Get back on message, dump all the nonsense about video games.

If you think there is'nt a problem exposing kids to fictional murder, then maybe YOU have an underlying mental health issue.

? Sir, I was exposed. Everyone I know was exposed. We grew up with these games! From the C-64 clunkers to arcade games and Wolfenstein 3D, right through the modern times when a lot of us whip out the old long axe after work to split skulls or get on line to shoot our friends in simulated combat. It's enormous fun, and if it truly made people more violent IRL we would have seen a huge increase in violent crime rates. Instead, they've gone down. The theories espoused by Tipper Gore and Grossman were wrong. We were right. We won. Game over dude!

Think about it, these mass shhotings have just started in the last 20 years which is around the time the liberals starting changing our laws to appease everyone else

The mass shootings remain very rare, but the deinstitutionalization has played a direct and undeniable role in many incidents both national and regional. The pattern of a mentally ill teen killing his parents and going on a rampage is not new. And in pretty much every case the parents lacked resources to deal with the kid's known sanity problems. Bringing culture war nonsense into this debate is a loser. It will divide us against ourselves even more than bringing video games into it. Believing in the RKBA does not come in the same kit as belonging to the moral majority. A lot of us have no interest in that stuff.

Other than being very profitable (as are porn and illegal drugs), what redeeming qualities do they have?

Lordy, lets not get into porn and drugs now. This has gone too far already. Like I said, it's time to smack Wayne with a halibut, and get back on message in time for the Christmas weekend chat shows. It's already too late to keep Comedy Central from having an absolute blast with this stuff, but damage done is damage done.

 

[XGibsonX]

I apologize for the verbiage.

I will support LaPierre and the fellows at NRA.

That pretty much sums it up.

Bye.

 

[M-Cameron]

Other than being very profitable (as are porn and illegal drugs), what redeeming qualities do they have?

1) they are a form of entertainment.....some people like going to the movies, some like reading books, and some like playing video games....

2) much of the technology used in various modern simulation software used by the military and airlines has been developed by the video game industry.....the enhanced physics engines that have been created have been largely due to the game industry.

3) if you want to get technical, one could argue due to the increase in co-op internet gaming, that they help those with certain social issues learn to create better social skills.

 

[Sam Cade]

Think about it, these mass shhotings have just started in the last 20 years which is around the time the liberals starting changing our laws to appease everyone else.

No.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Whitman

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luby's_massacre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Robert_Brown

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliesin_(studio)#Fires

Just my .02 from a rare breed 31yr old.

You might want to have that reappraised.