Was This Poor Concealment or Open Carry
- Thread starter 72IH
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Desert Gator, That was my point too. This thread wasn't started to criticize weather or not it is reasonable to "keep an eye" on someone with a gun. In Oregon it is concealed or not concealed. Not in between. Had LEO seen this what do you suppose would have happened.
He was a young guy and was acting kind of juvenile. Playing grab ass with his girl, looking back it couldn't have been his sister. He was loud and drawing attention to himself.
I will let all you do gooders approach and find out if he is good or bad. In the mean time I will keep me and the family safe. I dont recall doing anything to the guy for him carrying. Maybe some of you where there and seen me doing. I will go look in the mirror for not know who he was or what he was doing and being aware of other people. Can't remember calling him evil either.
Looking like a thug is subjective also. How many of you know if he was there to do harm? How many know he wasn't. I would not call the Police unless he did something whacky. Just like other people who are not packing.
I for one will continue to mind my own business and only call police if there is a concern. I will not, no matter what people say approach a stranger who is armed. Call it paranoid, rude or whatever I don't know this guy. I will keep my self safe before being some guy who wants talk about guns.
He was a young guy and was acting kind of juvenile. Playing grab ass with his girl, looking back it couldn't have been his sister. He was loud and drawing attention to himself.
I will let all you do gooders approach and find out if he is good or bad. In the mean time I will keep me and the family safe. I dont recall doing anything to the guy for him carrying. Maybe some of you where there and seen me doing. I will go look in the mirror for not know who he was or what he was doing and being aware of other people. Can't remember calling him evil either.
Looking like a thug is subjective also. How many of you know if he was there to do harm? How many know he wasn't. I would not call the Police unless he did something whacky. Just like other people who are not packing.
I for one will continue to mind my own business and only call police if there is a concern. I will not, no matter what people say approach a stranger who is armed. Call it paranoid, rude or whatever I don't know this guy. I will keep my self safe before being some guy who wants talk about guns.
SpecialKalltheway
Member
your actions are what called him out on being "evil" or "bad news" or "trouble" doing nothing is doing something. Choosing not to act is the choice that many like yourself choose. You cite "protecting your family" and other reasons, but that doesn't mean you are right. How did you know that another person standing a few feet away from you wasn't out to do harm? You give them the benefit of doubt, just cause they aren't printing? Since when as a society can't we give each other the benefit of the doubt? I'm just glad I don't live in fear like this, I don't think I could handle being afraid of a person just because he has a gun.
This was a case of poor concealed carry. Open carry is out and open and obvious.
This was a case of poor concealed carry. Open carry is out and open and obvious.
Hungry Seagull
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It is very motivating to get a family out of harms way. Not living in fear, just a natural instinct and a powerful one.
Zach S
Member
I've made a few folks. If they make eye contact with me a quick look down at their firearm and back up normaly gets the point across along with a "thank you" nod.
I think I've told one person. I was in line behind him at a croweded gas station and quietly told him he needed to pull his shirt down.
Come to think of it, I've told two. One guy exposed his OWB while getting his wallet out to pay for groceries. I think I suggested carrying his wallet in his left pocket, that got the point across. We were the only two customers there, and I had dated the girl running the register. She was pretty ditzy, so I doubt she knew what we were tlaking about...
I dont mind somehow telling someone that their CC is exposed, but I cant say I'd go out of my way to do so.
On the flipside, I'm not going to keep an eye on someone because they have a gun on them. There's a lot more to it IMO.
I think I've told one person. I was in line behind him at a croweded gas station and quietly told him he needed to pull his shirt down.
Come to think of it, I've told two. One guy exposed his OWB while getting his wallet out to pay for groceries. I think I suggested carrying his wallet in his left pocket, that got the point across. We were the only two customers there, and I had dated the girl running the register. She was pretty ditzy, so I doubt she knew what we were tlaking about...
I dont mind somehow telling someone that their CC is exposed, but I cant say I'd go out of my way to do so.
On the flipside, I'm not going to keep an eye on someone because they have a gun on them. There's a lot more to it IMO.
SpecialKalltheway
Member
I understand this, but I teach those around me that are my loved ones that guns are not to be feared and men without guns are not evil. I see no "harms way" here by any stretch of the imagination. The only reason I would classify this as a protect the family situation would be had he drawn his weapon. I feel this is a case of being over protective. We are in this together as human beings, avoiding each other just helps the separations and differences that end up starting conflicts in the end.
Ok if I did say something to him you guys would call me an ass for saying he was showing. Or being "afraid" that his gun was showing.
I walk up and say hey your gun is showing. You would say how dare you even infringe on his right for open carry for telling him to cover up.
So by doing nothing I guess I was way wrong and consider my self punished.
Man I was such an idiot how I handled that.
I walk up and say hey your gun is showing. You would say how dare you even infringe on his right for open carry for telling him to cover up.
So by doing nothing I guess I was way wrong and consider my self punished.
Man I was such an idiot how I handled that.
Zach S
Member
Using your logic, the same could be said for someone who drives past someone broke down or walking down the highway or interstate. Reasons for not doing so are often the same ones listed for lack of action in this case.
I can tell you now a lot of THR members aren't gonna stop and pick up someone walking or help someone with a disabled vehicle.
SpecialKalltheway
Member
72IH
I am only expressing my opinion, I only do so for other to read and think about. You are welcome to take it or leave it. I am not trying to attack you here. and yes, you would be wrong no matter what you did according to this forum from what I have read so far
It's easy to Monday night quarterback it on internet forums and that is what we do. If you want play by play commentary on an event you'll have to ask someone that is there at the time what they think.
I am only expressing my opinion, I only do so for other to read and think about. You are welcome to take it or leave it. I am not trying to attack you here. and yes, you would be wrong no matter what you did according to this forum from what I have read so far
It's easy to Monday night quarterback it on internet forums and that is what we do. If you want play by play commentary on an event you'll have to ask someone that is there at the time what they think.
SpecialKalltheway
Member
I stop for people with disabled vehicles if I have the time. I just see it as my duty as a soldier(a public servant) to help a fellow American whenever I can. I understand if civilians don't feel the same way, that doesn't mean I won't promote it and suggest its use to them though.
wyocarp
Member
Amen. I think part of the original post was, what is concealed? And that, is a good question. It is one that has to be answered differently in different states and might depend on the officer who is seeing it.
I hiked in with a game warden once to find some lions I shot that charged me and I had told him earlier that I would be packing. He didn't see any guns when we started and asked why I wasn't. I assured him I was. He didn't care, or didn't care to push the issue since he knew I was already pissed off.
I've had an officer see part of a holster and call me on it.
Recently, I purposely showed half of my holster at our hockey tournament where tempers were out of control and and at least four officers came in to calm things down. I was curious if they would say something. I was legal either way! Not a word was said.
Hungry Seagull
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Zach S
A big Lincoln broke down with the hood up and 6 swarthy beefcakes staring at you in the backwindow on the rear seat IS NOT a place to be nice and stop to ask if they need help.
Or one that is broke down near a LARGE bush or other cover capable of holding a platoon in a very dark place.
Help yes, stop? no. that might just be the last stop I ever make in this world.
A big Lincoln broke down with the hood up and 6 swarthy beefcakes staring at you in the backwindow on the rear seat IS NOT a place to be nice and stop to ask if they need help.
Or one that is broke down near a LARGE bush or other cover capable of holding a platoon in a very dark place.
Help yes, stop? no. that might just be the last stop I ever make in this world.
SpecialKalltheway
Member
if there were 6 swarthy beefcakes I would assume they could handle it on their own.
the one broken down by the large bush I would drive past a while and walk back that way I could check scene safety.
I won't let the bad men of this world to prevent me from helping the good ones. I fear no bad man and if mistaking one for a good one is my end one day, then I will take pride in the fact I have helped thousands of good ones before this one bad one could strike me down.
the one broken down by the large bush I would drive past a while and walk back that way I could check scene safety.
I won't let the bad men of this world to prevent me from helping the good ones. I fear no bad man and if mistaking one for a good one is my end one day, then I will take pride in the fact I have helped thousands of good ones before this one bad one could strike me down.
Come on...
72IH...don't worry about these other guys opinions, you did what you thought was right at the time. And you weren't wrong for having your guard up. We SHOULD support others who choose to carry safely, that is true. But if you don't know the guy personally, you don't know what his intentions are, maybe he would have started trouble. You can't ASSUME that a person who looks like a good guy carrying legally IS a good guy. You don't know him! Making assumptions can easily put you in deep trouble. Many serial killers and rapists blend in to society because they look like normal people. You were right to just stay cool, not assuming he was a lunatic but not assuming he was a decent, normal guy. Chances are he was a good guy carrying just like you, but you can't bet your life on that. You were simply AWARE, which is the best thing to be in my opinion.
72IH...don't worry about these other guys opinions, you did what you thought was right at the time. And you weren't wrong for having your guard up. We SHOULD support others who choose to carry safely, that is true. But if you don't know the guy personally, you don't know what his intentions are, maybe he would have started trouble. You can't ASSUME that a person who looks like a good guy carrying legally IS a good guy. You don't know him! Making assumptions can easily put you in deep trouble. Many serial killers and rapists blend in to society because they look like normal people. You were right to just stay cool, not assuming he was a lunatic but not assuming he was a decent, normal guy. Chances are he was a good guy carrying just like you, but you can't bet your life on that. You were simply AWARE, which is the best thing to be in my opinion.
Hungry Seagull
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Point taken.
Not to worry, there has been many helped and recieved also over the years.
Just not always. =) A old trainer once told me hand the person a hand but keep something heavy in the other ready to use.
Not to worry, there has been many helped and recieved also over the years.
Just not always. =) A old trainer once told me hand the person a hand but keep something heavy in the other ready to use.
My children are not afraid of firearms or those who use them. They do respect what firearms can do.
Trust your gut in any situation. I did there and he didn't seem to be a threat. But you can only tell if you (gasp) watch and observe. I can't believe I had the audacity to watch him. I must be evil.
If you were in a quicky stop market it could have been different. See a guy with a gun acting nervous pacing around it would heighten senses. You wouldnt be afraid though because he is armed and it doesnt concern you. The more the merrier right? You prolly wouldnt want to eyeball him since he has that right to pack.
You tell me if you didn't get a bad feeling from that behavior. ,how dare you, watch to see if you need to take cover or get out. Remember you have no obligation to protect others. Police do. So go ahead and approach and say to him. Hey a G it aint coo to let no people see yo piece. Cover dat up.
It is a totally different situation and warrants a totally different response. But you wouldn't know unless you were being "paranoid" or "afraid" and watching like the evil person you are.
Trust your gut in any situation. I did there and he didn't seem to be a threat. But you can only tell if you (gasp) watch and observe. I can't believe I had the audacity to watch him. I must be evil.
If you were in a quicky stop market it could have been different. See a guy with a gun acting nervous pacing around it would heighten senses. You wouldnt be afraid though because he is armed and it doesnt concern you. The more the merrier right? You prolly wouldnt want to eyeball him since he has that right to pack.
You tell me if you didn't get a bad feeling from that behavior. ,how dare you, watch to see if you need to take cover or get out. Remember you have no obligation to protect others. Police do. So go ahead and approach and say to him. Hey a G it aint coo to let no people see yo piece. Cover dat up.
It is a totally different situation and warrants a totally different response. But you wouldn't know unless you were being "paranoid" or "afraid" and watching like the evil person you are.
SpecialKalltheway
Member
you didn't include any information of him "nervous pacing" or any other weird information. You just said how he was carrying, were we supposed to assume he was a shaddy fellow from the get go? I personally assume the best of someone until proven wrong. We can only form opinions on the information you give us. Remember we're just Monday night quarterbacking here.
I will still on all information you provided say I would have rather something been done. I can just see the gun control advocates getting a hold of this, their cries of "see, even those with guns are wary of others with guns! That is why no one should have guns! No one can be trusted to have them if gun owners don't even trust each other." If you only care to enjoy your gun rights and not fight for them, that is up to you. I on the other hand choose to fight and do what's right to make sure we get to keep them.
I will still on all information you provided say I would have rather something been done. I can just see the gun control advocates getting a hold of this, their cries of "see, even those with guns are wary of others with guns! That is why no one should have guns! No one can be trusted to have them if gun owners don't even trust each other." If you only care to enjoy your gun rights and not fight for them, that is up to you. I on the other hand choose to fight and do what's right to make sure we get to keep them.
Ringer
Member
72IH
I think you are missing the point of some of the comments. I think people are taking some offense towards what you said in your post moreso than what you did at the mall.
Comments like these give the "impression" that you think having a gun is a sign of being a bad person or having bad intent. Maybe you didn't mean it that way it's just kind of how it reads from this end.
Your last quote is an entirely different scneraio than what you described at the mall. Most here would likely up their condition in this situation.
I think you are missing the point of some of the comments. I think people are taking some offense towards what you said in your post moreso than what you did at the mall.
Comments like these give the "impression" that you think having a gun is a sign of being a bad person or having bad intent. Maybe you didn't mean it that way it's just kind of how it reads from this end.
Your last quote is an entirely different scneraio than what you described at the mall. Most here would likely up their condition in this situation.
This shows you didn't read my last response. The last part was a hypothetical situation.
It was to prove that just because someone has a gun and acts nervous doesn't mean they are a threat. Nervousness may be a first time carry situation. So don't freak out and say cover up, also don't call 911 until you Observe.
Please read the previous posts and see where it was that I was afraid or paranoid. I wasn't, I was aware of my surroundings. I don't feel comfortable approaching somebody to tell them their underwear are showing, nor do I feel comfortable telling them their gun is showing. Why should I point out his lack of concealment. What would be the benefit. You must like guns and are a super cool hero. I don't need to have that kind of a conversation in a store with a stranger. That would draw more attention to him doing nothing wrong.
It was to prove that just because someone has a gun and acts nervous doesn't mean they are a threat. Nervousness may be a first time carry situation. So don't freak out and say cover up, also don't call 911 until you Observe.
Please read the previous posts and see where it was that I was afraid or paranoid. I wasn't, I was aware of my surroundings. I don't feel comfortable approaching somebody to tell them their underwear are showing, nor do I feel comfortable telling them their gun is showing. Why should I point out his lack of concealment. What would be the benefit. You must like guns and are a super cool hero. I don't need to have that kind of a conversation in a store with a stranger. That would draw more attention to him doing nothing wrong.
I'm sorry but people are strange these days. People don't like to be approached by strangers and they tend to get offended and defensive.
How many threads have we all read RIGHT HERE about how one of us bladed up on a stranger approaching us?
How is this any different ?
How many threads have we all read RIGHT HERE about how one of us bladed up on a stranger approaching us?
How is this any different ?
SpecialKalltheway
Member
"Why should I point out his lack of concealment."
Because it is illegal for him to have a gun in the mall in lieu of store policy and any crime comited by gun owners is ammo for gun control advocates
"What would be the benefit."
see above. Plus, you would help out a fellow human being who might have been hassled or fined by mall security or the police for his violation of carrying a gun in a "Gun Free Zone"
"You must like guns and are a super cool hero."
Why yes I am, thanks for noticing
"I don't need to have that kind of a conversation in a store with a stranger."
He's only a stranger until you say hell-o and introduce yourself.
"That would draw more attention to him doing nothing wrong."
didn't we already cover that he was in the wrong or having a gun at the mall?
Because it is illegal for him to have a gun in the mall in lieu of store policy and any crime comited by gun owners is ammo for gun control advocates
"What would be the benefit."
see above. Plus, you would help out a fellow human being who might have been hassled or fined by mall security or the police for his violation of carrying a gun in a "Gun Free Zone"
"You must like guns and are a super cool hero."
Why yes I am, thanks for noticing
"I don't need to have that kind of a conversation in a store with a stranger."
He's only a stranger until you say hell-o and introduce yourself.
"That would draw more attention to him doing nothing wrong."
didn't we already cover that he was in the wrong or having a gun at the mall?
SpecialKalltheway
Member
ah, sorry for my ignorance. I forget this internet thing is a big place sometimes. Well you could have saved him from being hassled by store security guards and booted from the premises, scratch the police and the word illegal from my original statement.
Hungry Seagull
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I see mall security as cowering dogs when a wolf is prowling among the mall-rats. The mall I hung at in my youth had rather ineffective gaurds that only used nice words and someone in the office to call the LEO's for anything worse.
Sorry, if Im a bit harsh on mall gaurds. That was a long time ago.
Sorry, if Im a bit harsh on mall gaurds. That was a long time ago.
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