We are going to have to give up something

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...The heller decision is going to be significant player in this and we need to remember that...

True--this tends to get lost in all the talk of a new AWB in that the antis most definitely are waiting with bated breath for a Conservative SC Justice either retires/expires thereby giving the POTUS the opportunity to appoint IMO another liberal SC Justice...

The other moral: it's good to have friends in pawn/gun shops.

LOL!
 
Actually, in one of the 'preliminary drafts' of a bill in Washington, the language clearly states that "squat" will indeed be included in the AWB :D.
Squat is a shortened-barrel assault weapon that is easily concealable. It is the preferred weapon of choice by Lilliputians.

No stone has been left unturned by Feinstein and her ilk to ensure the AWB is exhaustive.

Sorry, but I too have become exhausted from shadow boxing the left. Exhaling, through levity, is refreshing.
 
How many of these "You will all have to compromise and give up your rights to keep your rights" threads do we need to have.
Only lovers of the nanny-state would want to have the bureaucratic horror that this would bring into gun-owner's lives.
How is it a right if I have to go to the local Official of Firearms to get approval on the number of magazines I can have in my possession and the number of rounds each can have, and oh yeah the amount of ammo I can have in my possession for each firearm...:banghead:
This is how pharmacists get treated, of course they are selling products that are not protected by an AMENDMENT TO THE CONSTITUTION. Moreover, an amendment that was guaranteed (Bill of Rights) otherwise this nation would not have happened.
 
Recent poll on Fox News.

What should the White House policy review in the wake of the Connecticut shooting focus on?

Gun control 5.97%

School security 21.31%

Mental health system 45.52%

American culture and entertainment industry 27.2%

Maybe this isn't unexpected, but these folks can vote too. We are not even close to the kind of trouble some people think.
 
Am I off topic asking if there's enough pro-gun forces that can be called to the fore to have any real effect on this in Washington these days?

I'm kinda new to the political arena, and ever since I started paying attention, it seems as if "we" (meaning pro personal freedom and responsibility, Tea party perhaps?) have been on a steady losing streak for nearly a decade now. I guess I've come into my own realization of self worth at the exact time when an entire generation seems to have been raised with no concept of ethics or personal responsibility and a genetically engineered orifice built for the sole purpose to suckle the hind teat of whatever government program is available.

Just seeking a place to look to place some hope. It seems to me from watching reports from available media that what few conservatives that are known to be up there are clamming up tight and the vocal ones are merely content to cower like a beaten puppy.
 
Just something I've been thinking about:

I am a responsible gun owner. Growing up in the Midwest I have been shooting since the age of 4 and have never killed anyone, nor have I ever wanted to, and I hope I never have to. I shoot for fun and proficiency, nothing more. It is simply a past time that also allows me some sense of safety and personal responsibility.

I also collect old guns. My great uncle fought in World War II and gave me guns from that war. I learned to shoot from my grandfather and father and I still have my grandfather's rifle on which he taught me to shoot. Being able to take care of and also shoot these guns has meant more to me than you can possibly imagine. It also encouraged me to learn more about my family's and my country's history. They are part of who I am. It would be heartbreaking to have something that I enjoy so much, that was passed down to my father, and then to me, taken away from me because of the atrocious actions of a few unhealthy people.

Shakespeare himself said "there is nothing good or bad, but thinking makes it so." A gun is an inanimate piece of steel and plastic. It does not have to be perceived as a means for violence, and personally I've never looked at it that way. Among the people I grew up with, a gun was a tool for food, safety, and sometimes fun, and this is how I still see it. A gun in the hands of a woman trying to keep her husband from beating her is not the same gun that is in the hands of a child killer. It is unfortunate that society has branded guns as evil and continues to glorify and portray them as tools of violence. When used for the right reasons, a gun can be an incredibly effective tool to prevent violence. Many police officers will tell you that they have rarely had to fire their weapon to defuse a situation. The presence of the weapon alone accomplishes this task. I carry a gun where I am allowed to, and keep one in my nightstand. I do this because I was at home when someone attempted to break in. The incident ended immediately when I told the individual that I had a gun. I did not have to show the gun, nor did I have to use it.

The shooting in Connecticut absolutely tore my heart out. Honestly, I do wish the world were a more peaceful place, and that both guns and mass murderers had never existed. But, they do exist, and until our society learns to better educate its people and promote tolerance and understanding they will continue to exist. Hopefully, we can as a society learn to change our views on violence and in turn stop glorifying it so much. With a concerted effort maybe we can even get people to see guns not as a tools of death, but as something more useful.
 
You can see the post of Old Fuff above yours,newb Does not.that give you optimism?
Er - that is a Fox News poll. I am sure that if you went to CNN it would not give the same result.
 
For starters, I propose we give up compromise. It has not served us well in the past.

Giving up gun-free zones would be a "common-sense" starting point by any reasonable measure.

There are so many good points (as well as a few bad ones) in this post, I don't know where to begin.

But there is one thing I noticed, and I don't think it has been mentioned. If I read it correctly, both the Aurora shooter and the Newtown shooter (I purposely refuse to acknowledge them by name, because notoriety is what they seek) took three weapons with them.

Banning full-capacity mags is easily circumvented--carry more mags and/or more weapons. Something to keep in mind when the discussions start in earnest, and a point I will make sure to highlight at every opportunity...

Feel free to "register" your firearm for eventual confiscation, as has already happened in California and New York City,

Don't forget Canada. What a rousing success that was. :rolleyes:
 
If you don't trust the Fox News Poll then click on the link to the Gallup Poll I posted in post #146.

Very similar results.
 
Here's the one thing I would be ok with. Raise the minimum age to buy a firearm.

If you divided the world into those under the age of 25 and those above, you would see a stark difference in decision making skills. And by that age, a lot of the major mental illnesses would have been discovered.

Schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and drug and alcohol abuse all start to spike in the late teens and early twenties. Also this is when the hormones are surging and people are facing the most peer pressure.

If I had to "give 'em something," this would be it.

I'm sure there are plenty of responsible and level-headed 18 year olds out there. But until there's a test to figure out who's who, a min age is the best we got. It works for car insurance companies.
 
I'm sure there are plenty of responsible and level-headed 18 year olds out there. But until there's a test to figure out who's who, a min age is the best we got. It works for car insurance companies.
:confused:

Insurance companies don't refuse to sell insurance to younger people. I've had a driver's license since I was 14, and have been insured the whole time(35 now). They raise rates for younger drivers, but they do not outright refuse them, making the comparison to guns wholly irrelevant. If you are going to raise the min age of firearm ownership to 25, you might as well change the enlistment age to 25 as well....can't have any of those youngsters messing about with our military firepower, right? I'm sure the DoD would get behind that proposal! :( Here's an idea...rather than make assumptions about a person's level of responsibility, lets give them the benefit of the doubt. Lets let them own guns...and then, if they DO misuse them, punish them for that misuse (you know, like we do for other people....and how insurance companies ACTUALLY operate- dropping drivers that have been PROVEN to be high risk). Raising the age restriction paints with an awfully wide brush, and I'm not behind denying our younger soldiers the right to privately own weapons when their government says they are responsible enough to fight their wars for them. That is a double standard on a level of which I cannot accept.
 
Polls of course can be all over the map, and in most cases the responders' opinions are based on what the leftist media tells them. What I find to be important is that under the circumstances our side gets as much support as they apparently do.

The House of Representatives has shut down and gone home for Christmas. The financial cliff issue remains unresolved. Shortly the news media will shift to that.

Our core of support is in what liberals call "fly over country," which is most of the United States excluding the East and West Coasts. Representatives from districts located in this country's middle are going to find they risk reelection if they support the Obama plan. For that reason we will see a lot of talk, but little action. If the economy and tax issues turn out as bad as they might, those up for reelection will not want to create another reason for a voters' revolt.

They also don’t want to take on any additional risk to pass something that probably wouldn’t make it through the Supreme Court (or for that matter any federal court). Unlike previous years, the “right to keep and bear arms” is now a civil right guaranteed to individuals by the Constitution, and neither the president nor congress has the authority to ban any of them.
 
True - any federal gun control law will be challenged in court, and the SC would have to uphold or overturn Heller.
Yup--And the thought of a Conservative SC Justice either retiring/expiring sends chills throughout me...The POTUS would then have the opportunity to sway the Court in his direction with yet another new appointment (I would have to believe that during the vetting of the nominee his or her 2A opinion would be determined).

In fact, read here what the Nation's First Lady said back in April concerning the Election and the SC:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS...stake-election/story?id=16159124#.UNSfu2-_B8E

That said, I thought Obamacare would be found 'Unconstitutional' by the Court and even with a 5-4 conservative majority the law was upheld almost in its entirety...

happy_holidays_Animated.gif
 
Insurance companies don't refuse to sell insurance to younger people. I've had a driver's license since I was 14, and have been insured the whole time(35 now). They raise rates for younger drivers, but they do not outright refuse them, making the comparison to guns wholly irrelevant. If you are going to raise the min age of firearm ownership to 25, you might as well change the enlistment age to 25 as well....can't have any of those youngsters messing about with our military firepower, right? I'm sure the DoD would get behind that proposal! Here's an idea...rather than make assumptions about a person's level of responsibility, lets give them the benefit of the doubt. Lets let them own guns...and then, if they DO misuse them, punish them for that misuse (you know, like we do for other people....and how insurance companies ACTUALLY operate- dropping drivers that have been PROVEN to be high risk). Raising the age restriction paints with an awfully wide brush, and I'm not behind denying our younger soldiers the right to privately own weapons when their government says they are responsible enough to fight their wars for them. That is a double standard on a level of which I cannot accept.

Bear with me here.
1. Not everyone age 16 or even 18, or even 21 have access to a car. Cars and insurance are expensive for a teenager. You need a certain level of responsibility or privilege to have that access. When you were 14, I suppose your parents thought you were responsible enough to drive a car. (Or child labor laws were different back then, and you bought your own?) This is fine, because your parents know you a lot better than a guy behind a counter that will only check to see that you have an ID ,and that you are able to correctly check 15 boxes on a form.
2. I was shooting firearms when I was 14. Again, cuz my parents thought I was responsible enough to do so. Raising the legal age doesn't have to change much, if anything. See, you don't even need a license to shoot a firearm, at all.... So your driver's license at 14 means exactly squat. Did you own and have unsupervised access to a car at that age?

The difference here is that a lot of mentally instable teen/young adults who can't hold a steady job and keep good credit can't go out and buy a car without help. Therefore, for the most part, they can't do it behind their friends and families back without their consent or help. To be true, there's a lot of easily obtained credit floating around these days, but a vast majority of 18 yr olds in this country are financially dependent to some degree on their family, despite having their own job. And the car loan guys are going to ask a lot more questions and look into credit history and verify employment - some fairly reliable indicators of personal responsibility, or in the least, an ability to pay if something goes wrong. And they can't even legally drive the car off the lot until it's also registered and insured. But a lot of these people could go out and buy an inexpensive firearm with a ID, the ability to sign their own name, and the last $250.00 they have to their name.

lets give them the benefit of the doubt. Lets let them own guns...and then, if they DO misuse them, punish them for that misuse (you know, like we do for other people....and how insurance companies ACTUALLY operate- dropping drivers that have been PROVEN to be high risk).
By the time the government has recognized that a person is unfit to have access to a firearm, it's due to a willfully committed felony - or in some cases, an involuntary commitment to a mental instution (which is likely to happen after one's 18th birthday). Yeah, we punish felons, already. But might not parents be more likely to recognize a problem in time to prevent the odd tragedy?
 
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I got a form letter back from both Democratic senators basically saying that we are going to ban certain guns--no if, ands or butts
AMEN------------------:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
 
This is no surprise, but they can't dictate to the House of Representatives and all of they're members are up for election in 2014.

Also a lot of Michigan's blue collar population are avid gun owners. :uhoh:
 
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