We are going to have to give up something

[gc70]

None of those would prevent the shootings and don't act like that has mattered in the past. Nothing that has ever passed has ever made a real dent in gun violence. Still, that didn't stop them from passing or being proposed again.

A big part of the problem in the past was that a lot of gun owners actively planned what to give up.

It is time to stand up and say that gun control laws are not the solution and to demand that lawmakers look for real solutions rather than again using guns as a convenient whipping boy.

 

[Skribs]

Not entirely, 481. A lot of them have been here for a while, have a post count in the double or low-triple digits.

 

[481]

Yeah, I know. They are also easily spotted.

 

[JJE]

Nothing has happened that changes the logic of our opposition to gun control. Criminal shootings happen all the time, and will continue to happen. The answer is to punish the criminals and to do whatever we can - without resorting to an infringement of our fundamental rights - to try to avoid as many of these criminal shootings in the future.

Should people who can't get through the day without using anti-depressants or other mind-altering drugs be prohibited persons? Maybe - that's a conversation I'm willing to have.

Should the government do a better job of keeping guns away and taking guns away from prohibited persons? Yes!

Should every American have their rights infringed as a knee-jerk reaction to a tragic shooting? No!

 

[Skribs]

JJE, I think the best way to keep guns out of the hands of violent criminals is to keep them in prison and keep guns out of prisons. That still leaves stalkers (we need a better system for dealing with them), domestic abusers (we need a MUCH better system for dealing with them), and the mentally incapable (we need a better system for helping them and figuring out what will result in a violent psychotic break). Hey, I'm looking for a solution of the root cause instead of blaming a tool!

 

[cologuy]

I sure hope a low post count and only being a member for 3+ years doesn't make me a troll! Some of us just like to listen and learn....

 

[LNK]

I sure hope a low post count and only being a member for 3+ years doesn't make me a troll! Some of us just like to listen and learn....

I am in the same boat, but you will not be judged by the count of your posts, but by the content of your posts. This is after all a gun forum, not a gun ban forum. This still is THR...

LNK

 

[cologuy]

Oh, no, does that mean I'll regret some of my less coherent posts? lol

 

[beatledog7]

Most of us read what's said and put our stock in that rather than looking at who said it or how many posts that member has made or how old the membership is.

Everybody on THR was once a new member.

 

[Skribs]

Yes, we all had a low post count at one point, and not everyone likes to post as much as some of us. However, whenever anyone has a post with this basic template:

"I am a gun owner, and I don't want further restrictions, but it's clear they're coming so we should give them X so that we can keep everything else"...it's clear that the poster is one of the people who want to take everything else.

 

[MacTech]

We have to give up something?

NO!

To paraphrase Capt. Jean-Luc Picard…
"They invade our space, and we fall back, they assimilate entire worlds, and we fall back, no more, the line must be drawn HERE! This far, no further!

The Borg are a bit more upfront and honest with their intentons than the antigun lobby is

 

[beatledog7]

Skribs, I wholeheartedly agree.

 

[Neo-Luddite]

If we 'give up something' we might as well give IT ALL. No deal, no comprimise. Ask the hard questions about THIS situation and where the failure was.

If we surrender anything now, they will be back for the rest the next time. Shooters in the country DO NOT share in some bizarre collectiove guilt over what a maniac was able to do with his mothers improperly available to him weapons.

 

[stonecutter2]

What many don't seem to grasp is what some companies have already accepted (Walmart and Dick's Sporting Goods)...this time it does change things. You cannot easily fight the PR disaster that is 20 dead first graders. Such a thing motivates people like nothing else. It's all about damage control now. The general populace will want action, and now.

Is it fair that a maniac is the genesis of this? No.

But we are dealing with a situation that motivates people against our rights.

I intend to stand tall. However, realistically speaking something will be done - and we can either try to shape it, or get it forced upon us kicking and screaming.

 

[mgmorden]

Yes, we all had a low post count at one point, and not everyone likes to post as much as some of us. However, whenever anyone has a post with this basic template:

"I am a gun owner, and I don't want further restrictions, but it's clear they're coming so we should give them X so that we can keep everything else"...it's clear that the poster is one of the people who want to take everything else.

Exactly. It's the online variation of good cop/bad cop, and the "good cops" have been sent among us.

 

[Sgt.Murtaugh]

Yes, we all had a low post count at one point, and not everyone likes to post as much as some of us. However, whenever anyone has a post with this basic template:

"I am a gun owner, and I don't want further restrictions, but it's clear they're coming so we should give them X so that we can keep everything else"...it's clear that the poster is one of the people who want to take everything else.

First of all, if you're referring to me, I have never said "we should give up x so we can keep everything else." I simply said I think legislation is coming (whether we want it or not) and I provided a list of legislations I think could possibly come. If you weren't referring to me, I apologize.

Second of all, just because people don't see the 2nd Amendment exactly as you do, it doesn't mean they want to take your guns. We should educate these people and hope they see things our way or just agree to disagree. I know a teacher, who is a personal close friend of mine, who has his CCW and is an excellent shooter. He is a liberal CCW holder who thinks we have no use for AR-15's. He contributes to the NRA and has my respect despite his opinion. We shouldn't alienate people like that just because they don't share 100% of our views on the 2A. my $.02

 

[BryanDavis]

I haven't read a lot of the threads on this topic and this is just a theory; but could the NRA be waiting to add something to a possible AWB bill like national reciprocity for concealed carriers?

Kind of like the reverse of what happened with the FOPA and the machine gun ban. I believe the term is "poison pill".

Is that a possibility as to what the NRA's plan is?

I'm just really hoping at this point that they do have a plan.

 

[Skribs]

The problem is that even entertaining the idea that restricting the 2A is a good idea undermines the Constitution.

It is not politically correct to say that the media should be government-regulated.
Our country was founded on the idea of religious freedom, and it is not politically correct to say religion should be government-controlled.
While some people are willing to let the cops in without a warrant, the suggestion that cops be given free reign to enter properties and search without an official warrant would be hailed as constitutional blasphemy. And yet it's politically correct to say that the 2nd ammendment requires regulation.

As to your friend, he can think he doesn't need an AR-15, but he doesn't have the right to decide what I think I need. He also doesn't realize that the next person down the line will say "we have no need for CCW" and will want to take his handguns. What's he going to say then? Probably what those of use who want AR-15s are saying now.

If he says we have no need to own AR-15s and does not oppose (or even supports) legislation taking away AR-15s, then he IS trying to take away the guns of every AR-15 owner.

 

[otasan56]

Oh,..OK.

I guess we'll give up something and have an instant background check before we can buy a gun.

Oh, wait, we already gave that up.

Alright, lets give up being able to buy a gun by mail, and have to fill out federal paperwork. (Gun Control Act of 1968)

Oh, we already gave that up also.

Well, we can submit to an "assualt weapon ban", and see how that goes.

Um, hey, we did that too, and it didnt change anything, but at least it had a sunset date.


We're always asked to "give a little", but many that want us to give keep admitting that they know it wont really change that much, "but we have to start somewhere". Well, if what they are asking for is the start, where do they plan to end? I have an idea. Maybe if all the guns are kept in a central location, and you can go check them out to go to the range or go hunting, since its too dangerous to have them at home or "on the streets" whatever that means. (none of my guns have ever been "on the streets", that I'm aware of) Guess what they'd be asking us to give up when keeping guns in a central location didnt work, even if the guns used in a crime weren't kept at that safe location?

The old story about throwing one passenger off the sleigh to the wolves to appease them not working, as once you give in, they only want more, is really true. We've already given in to many "common sense" restrictions, yet they continue to want more when what they asked for didn't have the result they desired.

Good review.

 

[stonecutter2]

I haven't read a lot of the threads on this topic and this is just a theory; but could the NRA be waiting to add something to a possible AWB bill like national reciprocity for concealed carriers?

Kind of like the reverse of what happened with the FOPA and the machine gun ban. I believe the term is "poison pill".

Is that a possibility as to what the NRA's plan is?

I'm just really hoping at this point that they do have a plan.

National concealed carry would certainly be interesting, especially to me as an Illinoisian given that finally the courts struck down our denial of our right to carry in Illinois a couple days before this nutball just caused this tragedy. Illinois now much craft concealed carry legislation in this environment...not feeling as optimistic as I did mid-week last week about this.

 

[Steve CT]

I'm not prepared to give anything up, including weapons and accessories that I personally have no interest in having. I voluntarily give up NOTHING.

I think it is very likely that emotion and media bias will pave the way for some changes, time will tell how serious they are. I have the feeling (hope) that like all other knee-jerk reaction legislation they will be less damaging than they seem now, BUT I'm in CT and already subject to the AWB, with the exception of the magazine capacity limit.

The press conference today clearly targeted "military style weapons" which is so broad I think it will be impossible to define in any enforceable way. In addition, fast action on this was promised, with a concrete proposal by the end of January. Since Biden is running this show, his comfort zone will be his original AWB, and in at least this case, he won't be plagiarizing someone else's work, simply recycling his own. It would be interesting to see him try to ban based on named weapons and manufacturers this time around, too many to count.

 

[Silent Bob]

I say we give up Hi-Points. (just kidding)

 

[LNK]

Man, I better hurry up and buy that Garand before they are banned.(tells wife).....

LNK

 

[PT92]

holy....jeez! that's a brilliant idea and rather creative as well. Let's take it one step further and say you get a tax credit for undergoing certain safety and marksman training.

I agree that it's a great idea to the "objective" minded individual. However, the gov providing tax exemptions for hardware of which they seek to at the very least now, regulate more...? Doubtful IMO (but a smart).

 

[MachIVshooter]

I intend to stand tall. However, realistically speaking something will be done - and we can either try to shape it, or get it forced upon us kicking and screaming.

We shape it by not giving in at all. If they're going to pass something, they're going to pass it under extreme protest. They want, they expect us to "compromise" under duress. We cannot. There is no compromise that benefits us in any way, and so there can be no compromise.

You want to do something, write your representatives telling them you will accept no form of gun control. Send money to the NRA, GOA, NAGR, and your local gun rights groups. They know how to lobby, and they have the attorneys to do it right. Instead of buying ammo or mags at ridiculously bloated prices, use that money to help fight a battle that will bring those prices back down if we win.