Wet tumbling, I have a question or two.

[Wildbillz]

Hi All
So with the Virus running amok I made the decision to try and get all the brass sitting on my work bench reloaded. So first thing I wanted to do was get the brass cleaned up. A couple of years back I got a Frankfort Arsonel pin tumbler. So I tought I would give it a try. I did a batch of 40 S&W first. I ran them for a hour in a regular tumbler to get them clean enough to run through a RGBx die to take any bulges out. Knocked out the primers and ran them in the SS Pins with just a dab of dish soap for 3 hrs. Put them in the case dryer and they came out looking new. Then I ran some 223 cases same method except no soap. They came out dull but ok. Then today I ran a small bucket of 9mm brass that I left the primers and just as I picked em up off the range. Same brew pins, water and a small amount of dish soap. I ran them for 3 hrs and left them over night. I ran them for about 2 hrs this morning and while they came out clean they all have a steel gray color to them? What the heck did I do wrong and what do I need to do to fix it?

Thanks
WB

 

[Tilos]

Probably some steel or aluminum cases in that batch of 9mm range mushrooms

 

[HJ857]

Add a bit of citric acid. Lots of folks use Lemishine. Concentrated lemon juice (usually in a green plastic bottle) also works very well. Don't be afraid to run more dish soap too, it's not going to hurt anything and better soaps work better, such as Dawn or Palmolive, as opposed to generic brands.

 

[Toprudder]

I have had the best luck using Armorall Wash-n-wax car wash instead of Dawn. And a little Lemishine. For the wash, use the hottest water that comes out of the tap, then rinse with cool water.

As for what caused it to come out dull/dark, I don’t know. Never had it happen.

 

[2011redrider]

Try a magnet over the top of them and see if you have a steel case in the batch. some have a brass wash over the steel to prevent rusting. I try to run just yellow brass separately from nickel, the nickle seems to dull the brass ones a bit. Also run a 1/2 tsp of citric acid (lemishine) with armorall wash n wax. The wax seems to prevent tarnishing i was getting with dish soap, and leaves residual wax behind, makes sizing a bit easier too.
I punch all the primers first, if you are using the pins. No point in not having clean pockets too.

 

[rfwobbly]

As Toprudder suggested...
• 1/4 cup Armorall Wash&Wax car washing liquid (or any similar detergent and wax combo)
• 1 teaspoon powdered LemiShine citric acid
• Then fill the container 7/8 full with HOT tap water

Run 45 minutes tops.

 

[GoldieMI]

+1 ^^^^^^^
and periodically you will get a pink casing or two- that's normal with the lemishine- just run it through the vibatory again...with a capful of Nu-Finish

 

[AJC1]

With tumbling more is not better. More soap, more lemoshine, more time is not better. If I'm cleaning my reloads 40-50 minuets is perfect. If you pick up nasty range brass that is tarnished the 3 hours may be required to get it clean initially. Causing damage to the mouth of the case may happen with excessive tumbling, and with pistol cases that never need trimming it's a bigger deal. Cases that grow when sized will be trimmed, so no big deal.

 

[lightman]

As Toprudder suggested...
• 1/4 cup Armorall Wash&Wax liquid car washing
• 1 teaspoon powdered LemiShine citric acid
• Then fill the container 7/8 full with HOT tap water

Run 45 minutes tops.

I hope that 1/4 cup is a typo!

I use the cap to measure with and use 1 cap of wash-n-wax and about a 9mm case full of LemiShine. I let it run for 2 hours.

 

[Allen One1]

I think leaving them set overnight after they had been tumbled is causing the dull grey finish. I would start over with hot water, soap, lemishine and SS pins. Run them for an hour or two and see if the color comes back to normal. I would punch the primers out before I tumbled.

 

[jmorris]

I am in agreement with the notion that more is not better, wet. I once forgot a batch of brass and it tumbled, wet with pins, for 24 hours, everywhere the pins could touch they were OD green, forever. still shot fine though.

Try 30 min and grab one out to see what it looks like, then and hour, 1.5, you might find they get clean faster than you thought they would.

 

[Trashyshoots]

I am in agreement with the notion that more is not better, wet. I once forgot a batch of brass and it tumbled, wet with pins, for 24 hours, everywhere the pins could touch they were OD green, forever. still shot fine though.

Try 30 min and grab one out to see what it looks like, then and hour, 1.5, you might find they get clean faster than you thought they would.

Those look cool as a cucumber though.

 

[Demi-human]

Once the chemicals have done their job, and the soap no longer can keep enough of the Verdigris in suspension, the pins will impact plate whatever free metals are in the solution.
Whether aluminum from an errant disposable case, carbon-lead from primer residue, nickel oxides from the pins themselves or the awesome O.D. Green Verdigris.

My primer pockets are clean enough in thirty minutes. The insides and out, obviously, sparkling.

I, was told by a friend, totally wasn’t me, that if brass had been forgotten in the oven to cool down after drying, and someone, also not me, turns on the oven to make cookies. It will turn a neat blue color in the ten minutes it takes to pre heat it.
I kinda., He kinda liked it but it washed off the next cycle.

 

[Erief0g]

The water I use has 13 grains of hardness... if that matters. My water heater is set on 140.

I fill these tumbler generally to the top. Others offer that you get more agitation with more room for air which makes total sense.

I use 1/2 tsp lemishine and dawn dish soap. When using dawn I turn the bottle upside down over the fart and squeeze with a 2-3 second squirt. Tumble away for at least an hour but sometimes 2.5 due to busy on other projects.

I have an 18 gallon tote with about two gallons of water in it lukewarm. I also have one of those large Sam's club laundry soap buckets that I drilled with holes almost touching all across the bottom and two inches up the sides.

When tumbling is done I simply pour everything into the laundry bucket that is sitting in the tote with am extra two gallons in it. I agitate the laundry bucket picking it up and flipping brass around for maybe a minute. I only reload straight wall pistol at this time so this alone removes 99.5 % of pins.

Then to the kitchen sink. I pour the laundry bucket of brass into a plastic box that easily fits the kitchen sink. I have a fine wire colander strainer for dedicated use. I run lukewarm water into brass container and scoop a few handfuls into strainer running through the running tap. Flipping in the strainer easily as it's a handheld strainer. Dump into a bin until all is rinsed. I also have a mechanic magnet that is very strong that I swish a few times through the brass to confirm no wayward pins.

From there back to garage tp place on my old old dedicated food dehydrator to dry.

Then I go back to the rubber tote with about three gallons of water plus ss pins. I take an old tshirt that is cut out just over the five gallon bucket. Clip the tshirt strainer onto bucket rim and pour water and pins thereby straining pins out.

Done. Perfect. No issues. Sparkly inside and out.
I do use hornady one shot so the extra clean isn't an issue but the resize does require I bit off lube so it's smooth operation

 

[lordpaxman]

I’ll only wet tumble now as I gave away my rotary tumbler. There is a learning curve to determine for your brass and water how much soap and or citric acid to use. I’ve found for my FART it’s the larger one and they say the total load should be less than 30#s. When I figure the weight of pins, water and cases, I can put about 1000 9mm cases in. BUT, depending on how dirty they are, they may need 1, 2 or 3 hours to be “acceptably” clean. And I’ve found if I put too many cases in, like .45’s, they won’t come clean in 3 hours, it’s more. I was getting too greedy and wanted to get those cases washed!
I use dawn 3x and just food grade citric acid I got from Amazon. Less is more, but you need enough soap to keep the particulates in suspension. A 9mm case of soap and a 9mm case of acid for me is all it takes. Good luck!

 

[Herman B]

...they all have a steel gray color to them? What the heck did I do wrong...

Don't leave the brass sitting in filthy water.

 

[Dudedog]

I use wash and wax (whatever brand the car is getting, car gets what was on sale, usually Turtle) about 1/2 a 9mm case of citric acid (in the canning section at the supermarket)
Wash and wax makes sizing easier, and prevents tarnish.

you will get a pink casing or two

I have found the ones that come out pink or orange tend to be brass coated steel, not always but 99% of the time for me.

Note:-Do not add car paste wax, to the wet tumbler. I tried it once, BAD idea.
Everything was coated with grey slime. Cases, pins, tumbler drum major mess.
Lots of 409 and work, I got everything clean, almost decided to toss the brass, but since I needed to clean the pins I did it to. Seemed like a good idea when I tried it. IF someone else has and it worked out well I would like to hear about it. If someone else has tried it and it did not work out well speak up, that way I won't think I was the only one foolish enough to try it

 

[rfwobbly]

I hope that 1/4 cup is a typo!

Having no other directions, that's where I started. But I'll cut back and see how it goes.

I may not need all the detergent portion, but I most definitely want the wax to preserve the shine.

 

[Wildbillz]

Well I redid the 380acp's today. Deprimed, put them back in the tumbler with the pins, a dash of soap and 1/4 teaspoon of lemishine. ran them for 1 hr and rinsed them off good. Put them in the drier for 1 hr and all looks good. I have the 9mm cases running right now.

So I am chalking it up to leaving them sit overnight in the wash.

Thanks for the help
WB

 

[Prowler53]

I have had the best luck using Armorall Wash-n-wax car wash instead of Dawn. And a little Lemishine. For the wash, use the hottest water that comes out of the tap, then rinse with cool water.

As for what caused it to come out dull/dark, I don’t know. Never had it happen.

I use same as Toprudder. A cap full of Armorall wash & wax and just a little dash of Lemishine. 45 Minutes to 1 hour at most. Brass comes out like new.
As for the amount of soap....I guess that depends on how large a batch your doing at once. I guess a little extra won't hurt I did find that if I put too much Lemishine in by mistake it will actually dull the brass.

 

[MDof2]

Alright, I'll echo a few others......
A healthy tablespoon of dawn, 1/3 as much lemi shine, and no more than 1 hour.
Anything more, you start peening case mouths. Never let them sit overnight. Allows time for oxidization to happen.

Both batches, range pickup, on the dirtier side of the scale.

.223 that did an hour:


.380 that did a generous 30 minutes.

 

[Skgreen]

Too many variables to count.

Can't say I've ever let any set (or spin) in solution for 12 hrs,,,

I know the same guy Demi-H knows, except he left brass in the oven to dry for 30 - 45 minutes. He said it made 'em look like golden brown French Fries,

Other tips:

Don't overload. (Brass, Pins, Water, Chemicals, whatever, they all have their caveats)

If you find brass 'filings' in your tumbler, you might want to change your routine, either less brass/pins, less tumble time, or both. Also depends on how aggressive your tumbler is. (My HF dual drum isn't near as aggressive as my FART)

While de-capping first is not required, it certainly makes it easier to clean the insides of the cases, remove pins from bottleneck cases, as well as cutting drying time down a lot.

RE: I may not need all the detergent portion, but I most definitely want the wax to preserve the shine.

I've 'split up' the cleaning/waxing' into 2 separate steps. I use 1 oz FA liquid brass cleaner to clean a batch, then de-pin/rinse, then soak 'em in a clean water w/ AA W & W,,,, 5-10-15 minutes.

 

[Blue68f100]

Your water hardness/PH will determine how much LimeShine/Citric Acid you add. I was on well water that was acidic I only needed 1/2 tsp. Switched over to county water which is very soft and had to double the LimeShine. So if for some reason your brass is not coming out clean you may need to bump it up. As for soap if your pins are coming out dirty your not using enough to keep the dirt in suspension. The fix is to add is little more till your pins stay clean. I use W&W, never measure just pour some in and go.

 

[Spare Parts]

I wet-tumble my cases exclusively. Always shiny brass. Some success factors for me:

1. Cold (32F) water for tumbling. Cold slows down brass oxidation. Add ice cubes if necessary. I tumble for 30-60 minutes, depending on how much powder residue I want to remove. I use slightly-magnetic stainless pins.
   
2. Clothes-washing detergent. It's a more aggressive degreaser than Dawn. Removes the film of 80W gear oil that I use to resize 5.56 cases. Unscented, unless you like that April Fresh smell at the range. There must be foam after tumbling - that means surfactant and alkali are still present. I don't use Lemi-Shine - the acid attacks copper and turns my cases pink.
   
3. Rinse in cold (32F) water. Wet brass tarnishes quickly when exposed to air. Cases go into a bucket of cold (32F) water rinse (no air) while I de-pin the lot. (Someday, I'll buy one of those fancy de-pinning tumblers, but I'm cheap.) I use a stack of 1/4" rare earth button magnets to ensure no pins. My SS pins are just long enough to jam cross-wise in the bottom of a 5.56 case. I hate 5.56 brass prep.
   
4. Blow Dry. I spread the brass on a towel, cover with another towel, and roll them around. I then blow off/out any remaining water with compressed air. (The evaporation and expanding air from the compressor chills the brass again.) Let the brass air-dry in a parts bin - usually overnight. Bag (ziploc) when bone-dry.

I live in Colorado - 20% humidity and soft 6.8pH water from a mountain reservoir. The 2-year-old brass still shines.

 

[haybaler]

Even with rinsing and using magnets I would still find pins stuck inside the cases so I quit using the pins. I use water, detergent, and LemiShine. I've used cold and hot water and it doesn't seem to make much difference. I wash the brass before running the brass through the deprimer/sizing die. I don't wash it again after depriming. It doesn't bother me if the primer pockets are a little grungy looking. I've never had a problem.