what advantage does an 8-shot .45 have over a 16shot 9mm??

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SIGLBER said:
The whole problem with all these type of threads is that it doesn't and can't take into account one of the variables that we can't control. The person being shot. Each shooting is a unique event. The things a bullet should do are well documented by the F.B.I.. A bullet must penetrate deep enough to disrupt vital organs (brain, heart, major arteries and blood vessels...) no matter what the angle it is fired at, it should expand to give the highest possible wound volume, and so on. The shooter must of course do his/her part and place the bullets well and repeat as necessary.
But is the person highly motivated, drugged/drunk, thin/heavy, muscled/fat, and so on? In the book "Thank God I had a Gun" one of the chapters deals with a man who shoots two bad guys that break into his hote room to rob him. He fires on them until his (Colt Commander .45) gun is empty. Once empty he ends up having to fight with one of the men who is very large. He uses his gun as a club. He figures he must have missed. Eventually the bad guy falls out. Turns out one of the .45 fmj rounds had severed his Aorta. The guy was dead just didn't know it. You coulddn't hope for much better shot placement.
Handguns kill by shutting down the CNS (brain or spine) or dropping the blood pressure too low to sustain life. It can take awhile for a man to bleed out. Each person has to make up their own mind which they would have more confidence in. Less big bullets or more slightly smaller ones. No matter how you cut it .451 vs. .355 or so is not that big of a difference. And frontal area is what does the damage in a handgun sized round. I just can't help but think if he would of had a 16 round 9mm he would of still been shooting and not wrestling. But as I said each must pick their own poison.
I've decided I want lots of bullets in my handgun. Their is no negative to lots of rounds if you shoot well. As far as choice goes the rest of the world and in 1985 the U.S. Military decided that more rounds was a better choice. If I'm a downed pilot with only a pistol do I want 15-16 rounds with the mag in my pistol? Or do I want 30-31 in my pistol? I know what I would choose.
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Winchester's PDX-1 bullet.
 
Why are 1911's so expensive for such an old gun? Do they still make these brand new?
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practically every gun company makes an entire line of 1911's. springfield armory, taurus, smith and wesson, remington (single model), ruger (single model), kimber, colt. if you get into smaller manufacturers, STI, RIA, Wilson, Nighthawk, Baer, Ed Brown, to name a few.

the 1911 is one of the most popular "brand new" models of pistol sold in the us.
 
Hey I don't know if anyone has thrown this out there yet. Isn't it a good idea to always carry a spare mag whether its 8 rounds of 45 or 15 rounds or 9mm? Reason being for double feed malfunctions.

Even though I been to two NRA classes I tend to watch alot of secondary training material to supplement the classes I take... and most of the material teaches that it's a good idea to carry atleast one extra mag for various reasons... funny thing is Magpul teaches the theory of one extra mag for double feed malfunctions and "tactical" reloads. Reloading even though you have rounds in the current mag... just getting a fresh mag in. They never simulated threats and dumped a whole clip then reloaded. I don't know if they are saying that you'll never have to empty a whole clip into a threat but that seemed to be the reason for them to carry the extra mag.
 
COMPROMISE!!!

A 10mm auto, Glock G20, will carry 15 rounds and similar to greater ballistic performance than either 9mm or .45. The G29 carries 10 rounds...

Not to mention, the G29 will use G20 mags! So now you have a conceable (I conceal one everday until summer when I switch out with a G27) pistol that can have various velocity/weight hollowpoints, and a 15rd. backup mag of 200gr. FMJs, because hey, if the fight goes on past the ten hollowpoints, the FMJs may be welcome...

My opinion is the 10mm is the round that killed the radio star. It is having a big comeback. Capacity of the 9mm, while hitting like a .45... Not to mention the ability to load to .40S&W pressures... What more could you want?
 
COMPROMISE!!!

A 10mm auto, Glock G20, will carry 15 rounds and similar to greater ballistic performance than either 9mm or .45. The G29 carries 10 rounds...

Not to mention, the G29 will use G20 mags! So now you have a conceable (I conceal one everday until summer when I switch out with a G27) pistol that can have various velocity/weight hollowpoints, and a 15rd. backup mag of 200gr. FMJs, because hey, if the fight goes on past the ten hollowpoints, the FMJs may be welcome...

My opinion is the 10mm is the round that killed the radio star. It is having a big comeback. Capacity of the 9mm, while hitting like a .45... Not to mention the ability to load to .40S&W pressures... What more could you want?
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uh, 10mm has the capacity of 40, not 9mm. otherwise, i can't argue with you too much. only problem with the 10mm is that so few guns are chambered in it. i don't like glocks. i can haz xd in 10mm? or fnx? or sig 226? plz?
 
Again, accuracy is final. Lethal shots will still be lethal whether from 9mm, 10mm or .45 ACP. None of them is a sledge hammer and none will blast an assailant backward and off his feet.

Choose a platform you are comfortable and familiar with and others will do the same.

The 1911 IS an antiquated design by virtue of it's age but that does not deter it's effectiveness nor detract from it's virtue as a proven combat platform. Which modern designs are superior or inferior may be debated ad nauseam. If you cannot operate it and keep it running it ceases to hold any advantage regardless of design.

As to the OP's original question, assuming lethality is equal (given shot placement) there is no advantage to 8 rounds of .45 over 16 in 9mm. If you are a poor shot and slow, there is always the potential of having your pistol's final rounds used against you. That brings us full circle to accuracy is final.
 
If you could figure out how to conceal it, you could carry a G26,19, or 17 with a 32 round mag. They even make a 24 or 25 round mag (45acp) for the g30 and 21
 
A 45 will probably make bigger holes and might break some bones that a 9mm will not. If this makes a difference in incapacitation speed, then it could save your life. A 45 will shoot through certain barriers with less deflection. A 45 HP that doesn't open up will still do what it's supposed to.

And if the confrontation ends with less than 9 rounds fired, there's not much downside.

The next question is why 6 shots of .357....
 
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GLOOB said:
A 45 will probably make bigger holes and might break some bones that a 9mm will not. If this makes a difference in incapacitation speed, then it could save your life. A 45 will shoot through certain barriers with less deflection. A 45 HP that doesn't open up will still do what it's supposed to.

And if the confrontation ends with less than 9 rounds fired, there's not much downside.

The next question is why 6 shots of .357....
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I agree this is very true. If .45 HP fails it will still make a large hole.
 
Low recoil per slug weight, low Po, excellent accuracy potential,...... make the .45ACP about the best anit-personnel side-arm caliber one can possibly get.
 
Old guys tend to not give a ****. Therefore they don't get rattled nerves like a youngster does. The old guy just won't get shaky or get second thoughts. That's got nothing to do with skill or training. It's just life.
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What a gross, overly-stereotypical misstatement! Getting "rattled" easily or "shaky" when stressed has little to do with age (or gender for that matter) and everything to do with a person's state of mind, skill and degree of training. And that's just life.
 
Darebear said:
Hey I don't know if anyone has thrown this out there yet. Isn't it a good idea to always carry a spare mag whether its 8 rounds of 45 or 15 rounds or 9mm? Reason being for double feed malfunctions.

Even though I been to two NRA classes I tend to watch alot of secondary training material to supplement the classes I take... and most of the material teaches that it's a good idea to carry atleast one extra mag for various reasons... funny thing is Magpul teaches the theory of one extra mag for double feed malfunctions and "tactical" reloads. Reloading even though you have rounds in the current mag... just getting a fresh mag in. They never simulated threats and dumped a whole clip then reloaded. I don't know if they are saying that you'll never have to empty a whole clip into a threat but that seemed to be the reason for them to carry the extra mag.
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You can hang on to the mag you remove in a doublefeed. I don't think Magpul would argue against retaining the old mag if you have time to drop it in a pocket.

But thier training assumes you don't have time. They're trianing for the worst case senerio. So tossing the mag, and reloading with a fresh mag would normally be better. The fight will be over by the time you get to the bottom of the next mag anyways.

Theyre trying to teach speed when your guns down or you run dry. But when your not in a hurry and get a break, allways top off. If you aren't fighting, your reloading etc.

It's allways a good idea to have a second mag no matter what gun. But I do often carry without an extra mag with my Glock 23. I'm not the least concerned about malfs with that gun. Even if I do get one, I just clear it at 200mph and move on.

It's a decsion you have to make. My CCW kit changes every single day. Sometimes I carry more, sometimes less.
 
Good question. I started shooting with a .45, so it doesn't seem heavy to me. Maybe someone that shoots 9mm would hate it. They could always download it to .45 ACP levels and get the extra magazine capacity with the same power.
 
Hmmm, this feels like a flash back to 1991 when I had these discussions with others. No firm conclusions reached then showing a definite advanatge one way or the other. 20 years later, nothing has changed in terms of the arguments or data to sway anyone either way. I take that back, there are some 13+1 45 options and some 20+1 (whatever the XDM 9 mm is now) I think that didn't exist before,
 
Funny how long pissing matches can go on. The internet certainly has helped in that regard. Now we can have international pissing matches instead of gunshop and bar pissing matches.
 
Well...when you figure that the OP hasn't been inclined to comment since the first day of this thread, I'm going to consider the subject covered
 
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