What Do You Say To Something Like This?

[Typhoon]

Ahh, we use to do that at Pizza Hut Free food and drink for our LEOs and they came in quite a bit to "check up on us"

Ah, yes! While working my way through college, I was the night manager for a small market not much better than a convenience store. The owner had an "understanding" with the local PD.

I doubt that it was about the freebies as much as just being a cop-friendly place to hang out. Big parking lot, the "facilities" and a cuppa joe. Conversation and a place to take a break.

I was very happy to have them around. I never was close to being threatened during my tenure at that store. Thanks...

Andrea

 

[Sistema1927]

"I have a shotgun I really have no use for, I tell him. I didnt pay much for it and it doesnt work real well but it would work well enough to protect you if something like this happened again. I'd be happy to give it to you and even teach you how to use it."

You offered him a shotgun that "doesn't work real well"?

No wonder he turned you down.

 

[wmenorr67]

I know when I was a MP stationed at Fort Campbell, KY we could go into the shoppettes and get free coffee and/or hot chocolate when on duty. This was for two reasons. One to help keep us awake and second to show a presence. We could accept nothing else for free.

Rabbi,
Why not offer to take your friend to a range session. Maybe enough to change his mind.

 

[Dadx4]

LEO friendly works....my son worked at at local fast food outlet that gave free meals to the police - simply as an appreciation for what they do. Nothing was ever requested of them in return.

But one night when closing, the crew saw a car in the back lot with two men in it via the rear security camera. The shift mgr. called in requesting that a car come by and check the loiterers out before crew walked out to their cars. In less than 2 minutes, five LEO cars were surrounding the two guys, who were innocent of any apparent intent, but left the premises quickly when allowed to do so.

Must have been a slow night, I guess

 

[Fred Fuller]

Ummmm...

JPFO maybe?

http://www.jpfo.net/

lpl/nc (one of JPFO's Baptist members...)

 

[The Rabbi]

Rabbi,Why not offer to take your friend to a range session. Maybe enough to change his mind.

Yup. Tried that one too.

The Brolin worked OK. It fired if there was one in the chamber 100%. It was a semi auto and it had feeding problems. I think pulling it, pointing it at Mr. BG and pulling trigger would be enough to solve any problem. Dont think anyone would need a second shot.
It has since been traded for an 870 Marine. And I am not offering anyone that for free.

 

[mack69]

I have had this conversation with a few folks myself...They truly think and believe that 911 is a magic number...and that the police will be there to protect them. It just can't happen....not the police's fault either....they can't be everywhere at once. And there just aren't enough of them to be everyones 24x7 protector. The BG's know that too....We and we alone are solely responsible for protecting our property (though that can be replaced), our family and ourselves. I don't ever intend to shoot anyone, however, break into my home and threaten me or my family and you will be looking down the business end of a big bore firearm of some sort.
What these folks need to be shown is just what your neighbor saw...that the police are historians and evidence collectors after the crime...Please don't get me wrong as I have no issues with LEO's of any sort....many friends and some family are in the business, however....as stated above my safety and the safety of my loved ones is my responsibility not the police's...

 

[Vernal45]

Leave him be, if he does not want to defend himself, and his business, he deserves what he gets.

 

[Old Fuff]

I know nothing about Mr., Weiss's background, but I wonder if he wasn’t brought up in a Jewish neighborhood in one of the Eastern Urban areas, New York City in particular, or perhaps New Jersey. If so, then I think you are facing a cultural difference, and an unfathomable void between his and your values and attitudes.

For generations people who live (or at least exist) in these places have been molded by the authorities and eventually they’re own beliefs to think that having weapons, particularly firearms, is wrong – and to use them for self-defense is unthinkable. Issues concerning weapons and defense must be left to the police, and only the police. It is something that must be accepted without question. The only approved self defense is to comply with the criminal’s demands and hope that nothing bad happens. Any further response must be left to the authorities. The best solution to what they call “gun violence†is to pass laws prohibiting anyone from having one. Soon then, all of the guns will be gone and everyone will be safe.

So while they are often timid and afraid, they live with it, and accept it. From great-grandfather (who came from the old country, to grandfather, then from grandfather to father, and from father to son. This is something I will never agree with, but I have seen it often enough to understand it.

 

[Brian Dale]

Henry Bowman, you wrote,

He is unable (yet) to forsee that his life and that of his wife are likely to be threatened.

They already have been. That's what armed robbery is about.

Rabbi, perhaps your friend also needs some time to get used to the idea. Let him think it over; stay friendly ...

What is wrong with people???

It might be as simple as unfamiliarity with firearms and the usual amount of cultural brainwashing. These can be cured.

 

[10 Ring Tao]

If there was ever a germane time to post this...

...trying from time to time to speak with their brethren to convince them of the wisdom of having such teeth, but meeting with little success. They found it hard to talk to those who, upon hearing their words, would roll back their eyes and flee, crying "Baaaaddd! Bad things!"

http://www.inlibertyandfreedom.com/sheep.htm

 

[The Rabbi]

I know nothing about Mr., Weiss's background, but I wonder if he wasn’t brought up in a Jewish neighborhood in one of the Eastern Urban areas, New York City in particular, or perhaps New Jersey. If so, then I think you are facing a cultural difference, and an unfathomable void between his and your values and attitudes.

Old Fuff, Mr. Weiss is the liquor store owner, native Nashvillian, who greeted a would-be robber with a 12 ga pump. The bakery store owner is another person. But you nailed it: he is from California where crime is sort of an urban nuisance and they have specialists who handle that kind of thing called police. The idea of defending himself, much less shooting someone ("someone could get hurt that way!") is not something he can deal with.
This is one of the questions we deal with in the NRA instructor course: how much do your ideas and beliefs allow you to take another's life? In this case I guess his answer is none.
And btw, I was brought up in a Jewish area in NY. Riverdale by name. But my father was from Savannah so maybe that explains it.

 

[Old Fuff]

Rabbi:

I would not want to imply that Jews are by nature, sheeple - because I know differently.

Since the turn of the 20th century - and a bit before, Urban America was the birthplace of the "Progressive Movement" and much of the basis for today's liberal side of the Democrat Party. They, I think evolved into what I call "American Socialists" (tax the rich and middle classes to redistribute wealth) as opposed to "European Socialists" (government control of the producers of wealth, which is then redistributed).

The opposite of "Progressive/American Socialism was the "Frontier Heritage" of self sufficiency including self-defense that remained dominate in areas outside of the major cities.

Because of earlier immigration patterns many Jews became a mainstay in the Urban/Progressive movement and its later development. However all Jews did not go to New York, New Jersey, or later – California, and you (and maybe Mr. Weiss) are an example of this. It do make a difference where and how one is brought up.

 

[Standing Wolf]

So this guy, who works there alone with his wife, is more afraid of a shotgun in his hands than a bad guy who has already had one succesful hit on his store. What is wrong with people???

Between public "schools" and television, it's a wonder half the people in the country are able to tie their own shoes.

 

[AF_INT1N0]

Standing Wolf- +1 Sad but true.

While I don't feel Jews are sheeple, it would just seem that this fellow may be closely related.

He could also not have thought about it. I have converted a couple in my time, and was surprised at how many people just never thought about it.

 

[The Rabbi]

Old Fuff, we've had a few discussions about this here. I attribute Jewish reluctance to use firearms to a lack of a hunting tradition and the generally urban nature of most Jewish communities. In smaller towns guns are pretty much a way of life and with the law scarce self-reliance is a must. In big cities the cop on the beat was rarely too far away.
But fortunately people can learn, or unlearn, their tendencies. I dont know how many Jews frequent these pages but my sense is more than a minyan.

 

[model 649]

I agree with many points brought up here, especially the "LEO friendly shop". Excellent! Rabbi, I'm afraid your baker's mindset will not be easily shifted. It wasn't molded overnight. As was stated earlier, it came down probably several generations. That kind of learning/habit is tough to unlearn, even when faced with grave circumstances. Someone in these pages somewhere said that "one does not rise to the occasion, one simply reverts to their level of training". I couldn't agree more (from personal experience). Also your senses serve you well. I know of many Jews in s.e.Michigan who truly are like sheep respective of "911". This is a group of people who should certainly know better. Heaven forbid they find out the hard way, but I see no other way they will learn the truth. Keep setting the example and watch your back when in their store.
Josh

 

[The Rabbi]

Sometimes the only thing you can do once you've offered help and been sympathetic is to sit back and just be there. But this is a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[armedandsafe]

I dunno, maybe he's a Quaker or something?

I am a Quaker. Unfortunately for the stereotype, I was raised to follow what John Fox said in total, rather than in part.

"Thee shall cause harm to no one; nor shall thee allow harm to anyone, can thee prevent it."

Notice that is one statement, not two.

Pops

 

[The Rabbi]

I dont think the grammar is correct. Thou is the subject, thee is the object.
"Thou shalt cause harm to no one, nor shalt thou allow harm to come to anyone can thou prevent it." The opposite side, "Let no man harm thee." Is there something I am missing?

 

[english kanigit]

He will learn the error of his ways, if he's smart.

I really like the

"walking cheeseburgers," natural sustenance for anyone who desires to "take a bite out of 'em."

I am gonna remember that for a long time!

 

[Andrew Rothman]

I dont know how many Jews frequent these pages but my sense is more than a minyan.

Oh, yeah. Lots of us here. Hail, heeled Hebes!

 

[JohnKSa]

Tell him to avoid calling the cops because they always have guns with them.

Also suggest that maybe putting up a no guns sign will help...

 

[Crosshair]

So much for my theory that a Conservative is a Liberal that was robbed the night before.

/With a husband like that, the wife better keep some KY nearby. (Sad, but true, just give it time.)

 

[Brian Dale]

On "thee" and "thou:"

Is there something I am missing?

I believe so. These usages (his statement and your rephrasing) come from two different "dialects" of English -- two different localities and two different times in history.