TheGewehrGuy
Member
Any past experiences? Ever shot one?
Do they look like cheap/ budget rifles?
What do you think?
Do they look like cheap/ budget rifles?
What do you think?
What do you think of DPMS quality in general?
- Thread starter TheGewehrGuy
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fastbolt
Member
Like any other machinery, it probably depends on the quality of the parts being used.
Some years ago one of our guys using a couple of their rifles had a problem with one of them. When we examined the rifle we found that the bolt had broken across the cam pin hole.
We checked the other rifle and found a crack had started on one side of the cam pin hole.
Both bolts had a different finish, FWIW, and we didn't have any way to identify the manufacturer(s) of those bolts.
What are the odds?
I have no recent experience with their products, though.
Some years ago one of our guys using a couple of their rifles had a problem with one of them. When we examined the rifle we found that the bolt had broken across the cam pin hole.
We checked the other rifle and found a crack had started on one side of the cam pin hole.
Both bolts had a different finish, FWIW, and we didn't have any way to identify the manufacturer(s) of those bolts.
What are the odds?
I have no recent experience with their products, though.
rimfireriot
Member
DPMS is not a good buy:
They do not High Pressure test every barrel and bolt, which is a QC issue.
The bolts are not shot peened.
The gas key is not properly staked.
The barrel is not made of quality metal.
They only do Magnetic Particle Inspection of the barrel by Batch (which means the bolt could have cracks invisible to the naked eye).
The chamber and bore are not chromed
-None of those alone is a deal breaker unless your talking about a serious fighting rifle, but even in a plinker all of those taken together drastically shorten the life of the rifle.
Most of the barrels are 1:9 twist, which works best with 55gr ammo, but does not work well with heavy match grade ammo (so real competitive shooting is probably out unless you replace the barrel).
If the DPMS is what your budget will buy, check out the Spikes M4 LE. It can be had for a reasonable price, and is comparable to Bravo Company in quality.
I have owned a DPMS, and I didn't have problems with it, but a little research and you will find that aren't built to last.
They do not High Pressure test every barrel and bolt, which is a QC issue.
The bolts are not shot peened.
The gas key is not properly staked.
The barrel is not made of quality metal.
They only do Magnetic Particle Inspection of the barrel by Batch (which means the bolt could have cracks invisible to the naked eye).
The chamber and bore are not chromed
-None of those alone is a deal breaker unless your talking about a serious fighting rifle, but even in a plinker all of those taken together drastically shorten the life of the rifle.
Most of the barrels are 1:9 twist, which works best with 55gr ammo, but does not work well with heavy match grade ammo (so real competitive shooting is probably out unless you replace the barrel).
If the DPMS is what your budget will buy, check out the Spikes M4 LE. It can be had for a reasonable price, and is comparable to Bravo Company in quality.
I have owned a DPMS, and I didn't have problems with it, but a little research and you will find that aren't built to last.
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While DPMS is often thought of as bottom rung, there is a lot of variance between their entry level models and higher offerings. For instance, these two models:
http://www.dpmsinc.com/firearms/firearm.aspx?id=34
http://www.dpmsinc.com/firearms/firearm.aspx?id=62
are equipped with tons of choice aftermarket goodies right out the gate and street price tends to reflect excellent value.
So IMO, while the bargain bucket stuff might not be a good buy, some of their higher end stuff is.
http://www.dpmsinc.com/firearms/firearm.aspx?id=34
http://www.dpmsinc.com/firearms/firearm.aspx?id=62
are equipped with tons of choice aftermarket goodies right out the gate and street price tends to reflect excellent value.
So IMO, while the bargain bucket stuff might not be a good buy, some of their higher end stuff is.
kwelz
Member
Pretty close to the bottom of the barrel.
I have owned a number of them and used to sell them as well as a distributor.
They had the highest return rate from dealers of any gun we sold. Most of the problems were things that should never have made it out of the factory.
I have owned a number of them and used to sell them as well as a distributor.
They had the highest return rate from dealers of any gun we sold. Most of the problems were things that should never have made it out of the factory.
Birddog1911
Member
Rimfire nailed it. For what a DPMS costs, you can invest a small amount more, and get a far superior rifle. If you're just wanting a recreation rifle, and that it the most you can afford, you can also look at CMMG, RRA, Bushmaster, Del-Ton, Double Star.
Skylerbone
Member
Ran into an old friend of mine a month or so ago at the lgs and chatted a bit about his son's first deployment. Wanting to familiarize himself with the AR platform he went to the range with his dad (both are active LEOs) and older DPMS along with a Colt.
A few mags in the Panther decided to empty the remaining contents of the mag. down range in a single burst. After inspection of the fire controls trigger parts were replaced and the rifle sold to be replaced with a LMT.
Anecdotal at best but my only "experience" with DPMS. I do recall the owner buying the Colt when I was in my early teens which makes it at least 20 years old. He informed me it has never had a problem of any sort.
A few mags in the Panther decided to empty the remaining contents of the mag. down range in a single burst. After inspection of the fire controls trigger parts were replaced and the rifle sold to be replaced with a LMT.
Anecdotal at best but my only "experience" with DPMS. I do recall the owner buying the Colt when I was in my early teens which makes it at least 20 years old. He informed me it has never had a problem of any sort.
I run a DPMS LR-308, so far 0 complaints. Its a 16" Carbine, so it has to handle much more stress than your run of the mill .22 poodle shooter. So far, I've had no trouble from mine, and it has had no trouble digesting long strings of nasty lacquer coated brown bear, or German military surplus, or anything else that can be squeezed in your magazine. With Remington or Federal hunting loads a 1.5" group at 100 yards is do-able as long as I do my part. Plan to start reloading for it soon, and see if I can get my groupings down. So far, I have had exactly 0 issues out of the box. As always, I think some of this boils down to having to justify spending 2-3x more on one toy versus another and why that more expensive toy is better.
krinko
Member
"They only do Magnetic Particle Inspection of the barrel by Batch (which means the bolt could have cracks invisible to the naked eye).
----A little English Grammar QC needed there, don't you think?
My DPMS LR 308 is a high quality rifle---no play between upper and lower, fit and finish are first rate. After a year in my possession, I have not seen any degradation of performance or appearance---one failure to feed from the C-products magazine, none from the factory mags.
The Lawyer Trigger was replaced by a Rock River two stage---so one may say I didn't like the factory unit...and the DPMS Logo looks like a fat Buddha when turned upside down.
So there are those two problems.
Also, I heard that some guy from DPMS kicked a puppy once---you might want to consider that when evaluating the rifle.
Spikes---there are three sets of uppers/lowers from Spikes at the local shop.
One of each will run about $800---and they are nicely made. It's just necessary to assemble one possible combination with a rubber mallet, which everyone should have in their shooting bag.
-----krinko
Added link to a review at Gunboards.
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?139304-Long-review-of-my-new-DPMS-LR308-b-A2-rifle.
----A little English Grammar QC needed there, don't you think?
My DPMS LR 308 is a high quality rifle---no play between upper and lower, fit and finish are first rate. After a year in my possession, I have not seen any degradation of performance or appearance---one failure to feed from the C-products magazine, none from the factory mags.
The Lawyer Trigger was replaced by a Rock River two stage---so one may say I didn't like the factory unit...and the DPMS Logo looks like a fat Buddha when turned upside down.
So there are those two problems.
Also, I heard that some guy from DPMS kicked a puppy once---you might want to consider that when evaluating the rifle.
Spikes---there are three sets of uppers/lowers from Spikes at the local shop.
One of each will run about $800---and they are nicely made. It's just necessary to assemble one possible combination with a rubber mallet, which everyone should have in their shooting bag.
-----krinko
Added link to a review at Gunboards.
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?139304-Long-review-of-my-new-DPMS-LR308-b-A2-rifle.
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jerkface11
Member
So now 1:9 is only good for 55gr bullets?? Mine shot 69gr bullets very well I better not let it read this.
rimfireriot
Member
Krinko:
To the snide part about English QC, good thing nobody paid for my post, huh?
They do, however, pay for rifles, and the poor QC of a DPMS is inexcusable.
So you can attack the typo, fine you caught me, but you still have to admit doing batch only MPI testing on bolts & barrels is pretty poor QC when even small shops can MPI test every single bolt and barrel and still compete with DPMS pricing.
As to the comment from offfhand: DPMS uses 4140, which is passable. I will grant you that "not made of quality metal" isn't the correct way to phrase it, and was a mistake on my part. I should have said "many manufactures use higher quality metal, such as B-11595E"
Admitting to a poor choice of words doesn't change the fact that for the same price, or very close to, you can find an AR made of better material, with better QC practices than a DPMS.
To the snide part about English QC, good thing nobody paid for my post, huh?
They do, however, pay for rifles, and the poor QC of a DPMS is inexcusable.
So you can attack the typo, fine you caught me, but you still have to admit doing batch only MPI testing on bolts & barrels is pretty poor QC when even small shops can MPI test every single bolt and barrel and still compete with DPMS pricing.
As to the comment from offfhand: DPMS uses 4140, which is passable. I will grant you that "not made of quality metal" isn't the correct way to phrase it, and was a mistake on my part. I should have said "many manufactures use higher quality metal, such as B-11595E"
Admitting to a poor choice of words doesn't change the fact that for the same price, or very close to, you can find an AR made of better material, with better QC practices than a DPMS.
rimfireriot
Member
jerkface: At what point did I say "only good for 55gr bullets"? I said "works best." Those are different statements.
jerkface11
Member
Then what does 1:12 work "best" for?
Win1892
Member
I gave found their bare receivers to be a great basis for a project. Nice finish, great fit.
rimfireriot
Member
1:12 is also great for .223, specifically if you stay 55gr and under. 55gr and over you have more versatility with 1:7 than probably any other twist.
Again, you're taking what I said out of context, to bring up 1:12 you're making it seem like I said "55gr bullets work best out of 1:9" which isn't the case. I said "1:9 works best with 55g"
Those, again, are different statements. I didn't say from what barrel a 55gr bullet will stabilize best when fired. I said what bullet weight 1:9 will best stabilize.
Again, you're taking what I said out of context, to bring up 1:12 you're making it seem like I said "55gr bullets work best out of 1:9" which isn't the case. I said "1:9 works best with 55g"
Those, again, are different statements. I didn't say from what barrel a 55gr bullet will stabilize best when fired. I said what bullet weight 1:9 will best stabilize.
351 WINCHESTER
Member
I find this thread amusing. Two years ago dpms was considered a good solid platform by THR.
jerkface11
Member
And no matter what you said you were wrong. 1:9 will stabilize 69gr bullets I've used one out to 300 meters. It was still shooting good groups and all the bullet holes were round. 1:7 is more versatile but you don't need it for 69grs.
rimfireriot
Member
Jerkface, that might be your experience, but it isn't mine. The truth is we're both technically "wrong." Weight isn't the key factor in stabilization: length is, but heavier bullets are often longer.
Maybe we're shooting different lengths of bullets, so you're seeing better performance out of 1:9 than I did?
Maybe we're shooting different lengths of bullets, so you're seeing better performance out of 1:9 than I did?
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krinko
Member
"Could you get a DD, BCM, or Spike for the same price even less two years ago? "
The Boutique Builders are doing price dumps to move product in a very slow market, is that any reason to start trashing DPMS?
I don't have access to the cost/price figures for DPMS, or any other builder, so I hesitate to cry "Foul!"---but here's a thought---if the BBs have dropped their prices, does that mean they're taking a loss on each rifle, or that they were grossly overcharging you previously?
Let's spread the hostility around evenly, people.
-----krinko
The Boutique Builders are doing price dumps to move product in a very slow market, is that any reason to start trashing DPMS?
I don't have access to the cost/price figures for DPMS, or any other builder, so I hesitate to cry "Foul!"---but here's a thought---if the BBs have dropped their prices, does that mean they're taking a loss on each rifle, or that they were grossly overcharging you previously?
Let's spread the hostility around evenly, people.
-----krinko
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