What do you think of DPMS quality in general?

[Mags]

The Boutique Builders are doing price dumps to move product in a very slow market, is that any reason to start trashing DPMS?

What the heck are you talking about? Have you read my posts? By the way the AR market is in no way slow, saturated yes, slow no way!

Why would you pay 900 dollars for a rifle made of inferior parts when for 100 dollars less or the same price you can get a mil-spec rifle. If the DPMS M4gerys were priced at 5-600 dollars they would be great for the money but nowadays they just aren't a deal.

The fact of the matter is DPMS just isn't staying competitve with the "boutiqe builders". LOL, like DD, BCM, or Spikes is a boutiqe builder. It ain't 2008 get with the times man!

Also note, I am not saying DPMS is crap I am saying for the money you can buy a better rifle.

 

[taliv]

http://www.smartgunner.com/DanielDefenseAimpoint.aspx

when you can get a custom DD complete upper AND aimpoint micro t1 for $1000, DPMS had better be a heckuva lot cheaper than $5-600 to be any sort of good deal. ironically, the cheaper they make them, the less they're worth. so pushing DPMS to cut corners isn't really in anyone's best interest

 

[Mags]

Good point, they wouldn't maintain their mediocrity but cut even more corners to cut the price.

 

[rimfireriot]

I feel bad for Hi-Jacking the thread bickering about twist rates. Mags was right I should have stuck to the "High Road" and let it go.

For my part: I recommend Spikes Tactical for those on a budget, and Daniel Defense for those with a little more spare change.

Bravo Company and LMT are also great, but I've only shot them... never owned them.

Ultimately, I think we can sum this thread up in 1 paragraph, that most "High Roaders" will agree with:

A much better rifle can be purchased today, for the same amount as a DPMS. Some of those who own a DPMS might be happy with their rifles, but there is no reason to settle for less in today's market. Your hard earned dollars will be stretched much further by purchasing from a different manufacturer.

 

[RUDY850]

DPMS is not a good buy:

They do not High Pressure test every barrel and bolt, which is a QC issue.

The bolts are not shot peened.

The gas key is not properly staked.

The barrel is not made of quality metal.

They only do Magnetic Particle Inspection of the barrel by Batch (which means the bolt could have cracks invisible to the naked eye).

The chamber and bore are not chromed

-None of those alone is a deal breaker unless your talking about a serious fighting rifle, but even in a plinker all of those taken together drastically shorten the life of the rifle.

Most of the barrels are 1:9 twist, which works best with 55gr ammo, but does not work well with heavy match grade ammo (so real competitive shooting is probably out unless you replace the barrel).

If the DPMS is what your budget will buy, check out the Spikes M4 LE. It can be had for a reasonable price, and is comparable to Bravo Company in quality.

I have owned a DPMS, and I didn't have problems with it, but a little research and you will find that aren't built to last.

I did not know that about DPMS

What about bushmaster and stag arms Thats what I have

 

[Spacemanvic]

Hey, anyone else having trouble getting onto spike tactical site?

 

[rimfireriot]

I have no clue about Stag uppers, I'm not sure I've ever handled one.

I know Stag makes a quality lower, a guy at my local range, who always seems to shoot on the same days as me, has a BCM upper on a Stag lower, I was pretty impressed with the lower. I think they made the Smith & Wesson lower for the M&P for a little while, but that is all in house now.

I don't really have an opinion on Bushmaster. I've only handled the ACR, and I wasn't impressed, but that is a far cry from their ARs.

 

[Z-Michigan]

If you want an M4 clone, nearly all you need to know is here:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&single=true&gid=5&output=html

In general, DPMS complete rifles in .223 are OK for casual sporting use, far from anything you would want for "serious" use. They are not a good value in the current market.

The DPMS .308 rifles are somewhat better, a mixture of inherently better quality and assembly of the rifle (vs. their .223 offerings) and far less competition in the .308 AR market. The 308 rifles are quite passable for most sporting use, but still not in the league where I would recommend one for police, military or other "serious" uses. The DPMS .308 is generally a good value, unlike their .223 product.

In the current market, I would recommend BCM, LMT or DD if your budget is fairly large, and Spike's or Armalite on a somewhat smaller budget. There are many other good options (nearly all better than DPMS) in various price ranges, but it's difficult to make one comprehensive list.

 

[Spacemanvic]

http://forums.officer.com/showthread.php?81462-So-you-want-to-buy-an-AR-15-huh
Great guide article in choosing an AR, regardless of brand. Breaks the AR down by component level and what you should look out for.

 

[krinko]

"By the way the AR market is in no way slow, saturated yes, slow no way!'

OK, that's an oxymoron.
Maybe the trade is still steady in other parts of the country, maybe even brisk, but they're not moving well around here. My apologies for overextending a local trend, if that's the case.


Well, some of the guys have managed to almost say something nice about the DPMS LR308. I say "almost" because it is really "damning with faint praise", as the saying goes.
I don't think any of those comments were written by owners of the LR308, however, so I'll make one more remark for the OP---
Mine has a 24" free-floated Bull barrel and I shoot it offhand, with iron sights. It's so heavy, the wind can't blow us around much...so it's ideal in that respect
I'll be shooting silhouette with it next year and I plan on cleaning some clocks, the rifle is certainly capable-----in performance and quality.

The logo is still terrible, though.
-----krinko

 

[Z-Michigan]

Well, some of the guys have managed to almost say something nice about the DPMS LR308. I say "almost" because it is really "damning with faint praise", as the saying goes.
I don't think any of those comments were written by owners of the LR308,

I own an LR-308B, as I've posted on here numerous times.

It is quite accurate in limited testing. It also weighs nearly 10lbs with a 18" barrel and is so front-heavy you must be strong to aim it at all. It has the typical gritty awful trigger of less expensive ARs. The lower is quite nice in appearance and finish. The upper is well finished but the extrusion process makes it massive. Pretty much all finish details look good within the realm of AR standards. If you want a new semiauto .308 for under $1000, the LR-308 is a good choice among the very few choices you have. If you compare it to something like an LMT .308 or the POF-308 (I've handled both and shot the latter) it's not as impressive, but it costs about 1/3 as much as those.

 

[Mags]

Well, some of the guys have managed to almost say something nice about the DPMS LR308. I say "almost" because it is really "damning with faint praise", as the saying goes.
I don't think any of those comments were written by owners of the LR308,

I have a LR308 as well, I am just not blindly loyal to DPMS.

 

[loadedround]

I've read all the bickering about DPMS with much amusement. I'm really surprised that this company went from making a decent product to a difinite POS in such short period of time. FYI, I own a DPMS Match AR15 rifle with a so called crappy 20 inch heavy barrel in SS. So far I have put over 3000 rounds of ammo through my POS w/o one single malfunction or broken part. I did change it's heavy factory trigger to a Chip McCormick match trigger and my POS shoots under 1/2'' with proper reloaded ammo. So, any of you bad mouths want to put your money where your unknowedgeable mouths are for a buck a shot? My POS is up to it, is yours?

 

[kwelz]

I've read all the bickering about DPMS with much amusement. I'm really surprised that this company went from making a decent product to a difinite POS in such short period of time. FYI, I own a DPMS Match AR15 rifle with a so called crappy 20 inch heavy barrel in SS. So far I have put over 3000 rounds of ammo through my POS w/o one single malfunction or broken part. I did change it's heavy factory trigger to a Chip McCormick match trigger and my POS shoots under 1/2'' with proper reloaded ammo. So, any of you bad mouths want to put your money where your unknowedgeable mouths are for a buck a shot? My POS is up to it, is yours?

DPMS has never made a decent product. Their QC is sub par as is their workmanship. They use accurate barrels? Ok great. That doesn't mean the gun will hold up well. If you are just shooting dirt of doing slow accurate fire then that will probably be ok. If you are going to be running the gun hard then it isn't good enough.

You have put 3000 rounds through your gun? Ok that is fine. In what period of time? A month? A year? 2, 3, 4 years? Running a gun hard is not the same as putting a few rounds down range every once and a while.

Also your sample size is 1. That is not enough to make any real determination. DPMS has earned its negative reputation from a pattern over time of being inconsistent at best and leaning towards bad a lot.

 

[X-Rap]

So what is their biggest flaw, bolts, barrels, receivers, trigger groups?
I remember not long ago when guns made from various manufactures were unaffectionately called frankenguns. Now they are almost the norm. This is understandable since some companies seem to make superior parts but then some are made by the same and just relabeled.
With so many companies and different parts it is tough to know what is the best, what will do and what to stay away from at all costs.
How much difference for example is a chrome lined vs. a ss barrel?

 

[jerkface11]

Maybe we're shooting different lengths of bullets, so you're seeing better performance out of 1:9 than I did?

Always possible I was shooting nosler 69gr match bullets.

 

[kwelz]

So what is their biggest flaw, bolts, barrels, receivers, trigger groups

Yes.

Out of spec LPKs, lack of testing or QC on bolts and Barrels. Weaker steel on barrels and bolts.

Frankenguns aren't just a gun made from multiple manufacturers. They are guns made from sub par or undesirable parts that are also badly put together. That is what makes a Frankengun different from a Custom gun.

 

[W.E.G.]

Wow,... so much nit-picking.

I guess it helps that I actually understand the weapon, and can actually change a light bulb if need be.

I removed the box-stock trigger from my DPMS LR-308-T, and replaced it with a Rock River two-stage. Had to fit (i.e. DREMEL) the selector just a little bit to clear the tail of the hammer. OMG... the LPK is "out of spec." (rolleyes)


The thing shoots like a house on fire.
Mind you, I haven't taken it out and put a million rounds through it from the "urban prone" position, so you can take my opinion and experience for what its worth.

100 yards benchrest

 

[-v-]

I am still tickled to death that somehow barrels made of 4140 steel are utter crap, but ones of 4150 are the end all be-all (0.10% more carbon, specification range of 0.38–0.43 for 4140 versus 0.48-0.53 in 4150) somehow makes that steel utter crap. Sure, if we are all running F?A lowers, and a shooting session never runs less than 10 consecutive magazine dumps, the 4150 is superior to 4140, but for 100% of our applications, 4140 does an equal job to 4150.

Again, as with all things, you have to answer the question of where do you want to be on the curve of diminishing returns. Is 100% increase in price worth a 0.1% increase in performance?

Is DPMS the Cat's Meow? No. Is it as bit a pile of smoldering crap as everyone who hasn't had one seems intent on making it out, no.

"By the way the AR market is in no way slow, saturated yes, slow no way!" - Hehe. Saturated = slow. If there's more product then buyer, when you have guns sitting on shelves for months without them so much as getting looked at, the market is indeed slow.

 

[walking arsenal]

I think it's important that in this discussion we sort out personal preference from actual mechanical issues.

For what it's worth.

I remember attending a two day machine gun shoot at which DPMS was present.

I was helping work the range and DPMS had one of their full auto "Kitty kat" rifles there.

The kitty Kat is an entry rifle with a 7 inch barrel. People would pay 8 bucks for a preloaded mag and then would basically just spray the ammo through the gun for kicks and then hand it back to the rep.

The only care that rifle saw was when the upper was pulled and then dunked in a bucket of oil every few mags to cool the upper off enough so that the next shooter could touch it.

That gun must have seen 5,000 rounds that weekend at least. Never missed a beat as far as I saw.


That said. My friend has a one of their sport tactical rifles and it chokes on everything but mil-spec 5.56

Go figure.

 

[wriggly]

I asked about DPMS on another forum a few months back, and a member that is an armorer for the military in Iraq chimed in. He basically poo poo'd DPMS and when I put out the response that some of the problems he had seen might have been from contractors that created their own frankenguns and hence some of their own troubles, his reply to that was........

"The DPMS guns I worked on in Iraq weren't parts guns. They were factory purchased select-fire models. When I used a chamber reamer on them it removed quite a bit of material from the chamber.

In addition when I had to remove the FSB pins from the weapon to install a free floating rail some of them actually bent because they were made from soft metal. The underside of the FSB was also not parkerized.

In addition they had rifle type extractors installed. I asked a couple of guys if they had problems with failures to extract and they all said yes.

That was due to the chamber and weak extractors."

 

[Mags]

When my DPMS 308 arrived NIB the feedlips on the mags were cracked and bent. I contacted DPMS and they wanted me to send them back on my dime to get them replaced. Paying 10 dollars shipping to get 20 dollar mags replaced is a little ridiculous.

 

[Horvath819]

Wow and I just ordered a DPMS AR-15, wish I would have heard about all these problems before hand. :banghead: I might end up just sending it back before I open a can of worms.

 

[kimberkid]

I've had zero trouble with either of mine, and they both shoot under .75" @ 100, but they aren't entry level guns either.

​

 

[MCMXI]

You have put 3000 rounds through your gun? Ok that is fine. In what period of time? A month? A year? 2, 3, 4 years? Running a gun hard is not the same as putting a few rounds down range every once and a while.

What's the difference for an AR (from an engineering standpoint) between 3,000 rounds in three days vs. 3,000 rounds in three years?

As for DPMS, I have a DPMS upper with a stainless steel 24" heavy fluted barrel with a 1:8 twist on a BM lower. It's been nothing short of excellent. I use it for 90 round matches out to 600 yards and lots of load development. It also makes for a great rifle for new shooters since it's very accurate and easy to shoot. I've put a few thousand rounds through it without a single issue. Many of those rounds during rapid fire stages with minimal cooling of the barrel or related parts. So far, so good.