What gun for rampaging SUV driver?
- Thread starter hillbilly
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Jeff Timm
Member
M-79 or M-203 grenade launcher, hopfully with the 40 mm shaped charge round, delivered head on into the windshield or through the back door.
Geoff
Who notes there were no Police around when citizens needed them. Sigh.
Geoff
Who notes there were no Police around when citizens needed them. Sigh.
Seismic Sam
Member
15 rounds of 10mm WON'T do it...
The reason I know is that about a month after Minnesota got its CCW law passed (with dire predictions of St. Paul becoming Tombstone, AZ
) there were two idiot brothers who made ALL the local newscasts. 
:banghead: One was drunk and the other was drunker, and they got into a fight, and the drunker one got in his Trans Am and was about to go screaming away dead drunk, so the less drunk brother, realizing that his idiot sibling WAS probably going to kill somebody, pulled out his EAA 10mm and emptied the entire clip into the hood of the Trans Am. The drunker brother drove away anyway, although he was apprehended anyway a short time later.
and BTW - how do you tell the difference between a homicidal Islamic terrorist and a New York taxi driver?
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The reason I know is that about a month after Minnesota got its CCW law passed (with dire predictions of St. Paul becoming Tombstone, AZ
) there were two idiot brothers who made ALL the local newscasts. :banghead: One was drunk and the other was drunker, and they got into a fight, and the drunker one got in his Trans Am and was about to go screaming away dead drunk, so the less drunk brother, realizing that his idiot sibling WAS probably going to kill somebody, pulled out his EAA 10mm and emptied the entire clip into the hood of the Trans Am. The drunker brother drove away anyway, although he was apprehended anyway a short time later.and BTW - how do you tell the difference between a homicidal Islamic terrorist and a New York taxi driver?
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Getting back to reality...
In this situation you probably wouldn't even know it was an attempted homicide and not just a traffic accident. I don't know about you, but I don't pull my piece and shoot the driver if he is driving away from what I think is a hit and run.
And wow, there sure are a lot of THR members who have grenade launchers and belt feds.
In this situation you probably wouldn't even know it was an attempted homicide and not just a traffic accident. I don't know about you, but I don't pull my piece and shoot the driver if he is driving away from what I think is a hit and run.
And wow, there sure are a lot of THR members who have grenade launchers and belt feds.
Geronimo45
Member
I doubt that a CZ 52 could go through an engine block and do noteworthy damage. They do have a tendency to defeat some body armor, and the plastic junk used on cars shouldn't stop it. I was thinking more of shooting through the car body at someone, or of popping the tires (tires are tough).
Also, it sounded like the guy was not just hitting one person, but chasing people down with his car. You see one person hit, could be an accident. When you see somebody hit one guy then start after another, that's a whole 'nother ball game.
Also, it sounded like the guy was not just hitting one person, but chasing people down with his car. You see one person hit, could be an accident. When you see somebody hit one guy then start after another, that's a whole 'nother ball game.
d906670
Member
A desert egale in 50ae.
Ok put all of your fantasies aside. There is nothing you can get without buying a tax stamp for a destructive device that will stop an automobile instantly.
Shoot the radiator and wait 15 or 20 minutes for te engine to seize up...you're still run over. Shoot out tires and the driver runs you down while the rims are throwing sparks....Shoot through the laminated glass windshiled and kill the driver instantly..harder to do then it looks and a lucky shot sith any handgun or rifle ammo...the car still carries toward you on it's own momentum..or even faster if the now dead driver mashed the gas pedal.
The way to deal with a rampaging SUV driver is to get out of the way...
Jeff
Shoot the radiator and wait 15 or 20 minutes for te engine to seize up...you're still run over. Shoot out tires and the driver runs you down while the rims are throwing sparks....Shoot through the laminated glass windshiled and kill the driver instantly..harder to do then it looks and a lucky shot sith any handgun or rifle ammo...the car still carries toward you on it's own momentum..or even faster if the now dead driver mashed the gas pedal.
The way to deal with a rampaging SUV driver is to get out of the way...
Jeff
Now just a minute redloki. I think you are mis-characterizing this incident.
A tragedy is when people die in a fire. Or when an airliner crashes with fatalities. Or when a boat with passengers sinks and people drown.
This was a CRIME. One use of firearms is for self-defense. By definition having a crime perpetrated against you is a reason to defend yourself. By any reasonable standard it is easy to see that a vehicle is capable of killing a person. Ergo, it is deadly force.
Using a firearm to stop a vehicle someone is using to run over pedestrians, or to stop the person would be justifiable in most places. Some of the answers may be tongue in cheek, but forethought is preparation. Part of not being a victim is thinking ahead.
Why did the driver not choose a closer locale, like Oakland (murder rate around 90 people so far this year and climbing) to do damage, or even the Hunter’s Point area of S.F. (5 murders last Sunday)? Perhaps he wasn’t that crazy after all.
Also, S.F. is giving itself accolades that emergency services was on scene in 14 minutes. Further proof that Mayor Gavin Newsom’s anti-crime policies are working.
Also, S.F. is giving itself accolades that emergency services was on scene in 14 minutes. Further proof that Mayor Gavin Newsom’s anti-crime policies are working.
steveracer
Member
He chose that location because it is a Jewish community.
The first person he hit was in front of a Jewish temple. That neighborhood is predominantly Jewish, and this guy is a radical Muslim. Check the story a little more closely. This was not a random selection.
The first person he hit was in front of a Jewish temple. That neighborhood is predominantly Jewish, and this guy is a radical Muslim. Check the story a little more closely. This was not a random selection.
Erebus
Member
Anyone who thinks that any small arm can stop any automobile instantly is only fooling themselves. I saw a dash-cam video of a nut trying to run down a LEO by pinning him between his SUV and the front of his cruiser. You see the LEO drop to the ground between the 2 vehicles(looked like he was a goner) and somehow end up on the ground right beside the driver's door of the SUV. He put 8 rounds from his service pistol in the door of that SUV at point-blank range and not a one hit the driver. The deflection is too great to accurately penetrate the door and hit the driver. If you do you got very lucky. Scared him enough to surrender though.
Tires are hard to hit on a vehicle that is moving irradically trying to hit people., The tread is steel belted and hard to penetrate, the sidewalls are easy to penetrate. Popping the tires will slow the vehicle down dramatically and give people an opportunity to run. A laminated windshield is hard to penetrate accurately and if you are shooting at the windshield you're the next victim. The radiator is easy to hit but again if you are shooting at the radiator you're the next victim and the vehicle will continue on for quite some time. If he keeps it moving fast enough he's got a good 30 minutes.
The driver's side window is probably your best bet. It will completely shatter with the first hit. And then you have a clear shot on the driver. But you are still shooting at a fast moving target.
The story about the bullet lodging between the starter and flywheel and stopping the engine is BS. The engine has more than enough power to either munch the bullet or strip a couple teeth off the flywheel.
There are only a couple things you could hit with a bullet that could stop a car instantly. None of them are in the same place in all cars. If it's a newer car you could hit the ECU/computer or a fuel line, both would kill the engine almost instantly. The computer can be almost anywhere. Anywhere in the engine compartment, inside the dashboard, and passenger's side footwell are places that come to mind as the most common. You could hit the fuel lines which are about as big around as a pencil and run along the inside of the framerail so your chances of hitting them are slim and none. The coil or distributor(if it has a distributor, newer cars don't), again they can be just about anywhere in the engine compartment and most are, give or take, the size of a beer can.
Way too much junk between the outside of the car and engine itself to expect to damage it enough to stop it. Just because a particular handgun or rifle can damage an engine doesn't mean it can after going through all the junk it has to to get there.
The nut behind the wheel is still your best target but it's a moving target, somewhat shielded and could be trying to hit you. Find a place you can take good aim from that you are protected from the vehicle and give it a try if you think you can do it. But if you are trying to hit a moving vehicle I find it doubtful that you can fire at it and not break rule #4(Be absolutely sure of your target, and what is behind it).
A few rounds in the windshield may make it really hard for him to see and find victims. Hitting the tires will dramatically slow it down. Killing the driver will stop it the next time it hits something solid at the latest. There are no easy options.
Tires are hard to hit on a vehicle that is moving irradically trying to hit people., The tread is steel belted and hard to penetrate, the sidewalls are easy to penetrate. Popping the tires will slow the vehicle down dramatically and give people an opportunity to run. A laminated windshield is hard to penetrate accurately and if you are shooting at the windshield you're the next victim. The radiator is easy to hit but again if you are shooting at the radiator you're the next victim and the vehicle will continue on for quite some time. If he keeps it moving fast enough he's got a good 30 minutes.
The driver's side window is probably your best bet. It will completely shatter with the first hit. And then you have a clear shot on the driver. But you are still shooting at a fast moving target.
The story about the bullet lodging between the starter and flywheel and stopping the engine is BS. The engine has more than enough power to either munch the bullet or strip a couple teeth off the flywheel.
There are only a couple things you could hit with a bullet that could stop a car instantly. None of them are in the same place in all cars. If it's a newer car you could hit the ECU/computer or a fuel line, both would kill the engine almost instantly. The computer can be almost anywhere. Anywhere in the engine compartment, inside the dashboard, and passenger's side footwell are places that come to mind as the most common. You could hit the fuel lines which are about as big around as a pencil and run along the inside of the framerail so your chances of hitting them are slim and none. The coil or distributor(if it has a distributor, newer cars don't), again they can be just about anywhere in the engine compartment and most are, give or take, the size of a beer can.
Way too much junk between the outside of the car and engine itself to expect to damage it enough to stop it. Just because a particular handgun or rifle can damage an engine doesn't mean it can after going through all the junk it has to to get there.
The nut behind the wheel is still your best target but it's a moving target, somewhat shielded and could be trying to hit you. Find a place you can take good aim from that you are protected from the vehicle and give it a try if you think you can do it. But if you are trying to hit a moving vehicle I find it doubtful that you can fire at it and not break rule #4(Be absolutely sure of your target, and what is behind it).
A few rounds in the windshield may make it really hard for him to see and find victims. Hitting the tires will dramatically slow it down. Killing the driver will stop it the next time it hits something solid at the latest. There are no easy options.
Can'thavenuthingood
Member
In real life what is your carry weapon?
Biggest may be a .357 or .40 belly gun. If you are carrying, you are aware of your surrounding environment, prepared and on guard. There are no rifles being walked or tanks cruising the streets.
In real life what are the chances of one of these nutjobs attacking someone who is prepared?
In San Francisco no one carrys so its safe to attack virtually anyone.
Going to Oakland might get the guy killed before he gets to kill others. They are cowards from our point of view. From theirs they are heroes.
Banning guns worked so well, maybe Islam ought to be outlawed.
Vick
Biggest may be a .357 or .40 belly gun. If you are carrying, you are aware of your surrounding environment, prepared and on guard. There are no rifles being walked or tanks cruising the streets.
In real life what are the chances of one of these nutjobs attacking someone who is prepared?
In San Francisco no one carrys so its safe to attack virtually anyone.
Going to Oakland might get the guy killed before he gets to kill others. They are cowards from our point of view. From theirs they are heroes.
Banning guns worked so well, maybe Islam ought to be outlawed.
Vick
El Tejon
Member
Gun? I'm using my Nike running shoes.
sixgunner455
Member
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I'm with the few guys who posted a reasonable response to stopping the guy: use a vehicle with enough mass to stop his vehicle. The guy with the F450 welding rig, he'd have no problem with just about any normal passenger vehicle.
A pistol would not have been the right weapon to use in this instance. I've heard enough anectodal stories about shooting to stop cars with handguns
to think that I would probably never try it.
If you're on foot, your only real option is to get out of the way. If you're in a vehicle, and realize what's going on -- that there's a hit and run and the guy is driving away, you can (a) follow him and call the police, (b) ram his car, or (c) stop and try to help the victim(s). If you follow him and he runs down somebody else, then you'd want to block or ram his vehicle. If he only hits one thing/person, then do you really have justification to ram him? If there are no other people around, you really should help the injured.
All of these options were available to the other drivers in SF, even though it's California. Did anybody follow him, at the very least?
A pistol would not have been the right weapon to use in this instance. I've heard enough anectodal stories about shooting to stop cars with handguns
to think that I would probably never try it.If you're on foot, your only real option is to get out of the way. If you're in a vehicle, and realize what's going on -- that there's a hit and run and the guy is driving away, you can (a) follow him and call the police, (b) ram his car, or (c) stop and try to help the victim(s). If you follow him and he runs down somebody else, then you'd want to block or ram his vehicle. If he only hits one thing/person, then do you really have justification to ram him? If there are no other people around, you really should help the injured.
All of these options were available to the other drivers in SF, even though it's California. Did anybody follow him, at the very least?
cassandrasdaddy
Member
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big vehicle would work well and no one gets hurt
but u=i think no one hurt spoils it for some. there was a guy in a bar threatening a girl one night she was afraid he'd follow her . Rather than puff up and stomp him we just blocked him in . step van full of newpapers is a great weight. no buddy got hurt
but u=i think no one hurt spoils it for some. there was a guy in a bar threatening a girl one night she was afraid he'd follow her . Rather than puff up and stomp him we just blocked him in . step van full of newpapers is a great weight. no buddy got hurt
Medusa
Member
My G36K has the AG36 attached to it (40mm GL), but I don't CCW it usually, as things aren't THAT bad here
. Besides, the grenade needs some distance for arming, with speeding vehicle inbound it might not be enough. Best solution would either ram the car if my vehicle would be suitable for it, or get the hell outta dodge.If you want to stop a (average passenger) vehicle dead in its tracks, don't shoot for the radiator, tires, block, etc. Aim for the upper part of the engine, where all the fuel injection (and carburator, on older vehicles) are. Lots of electronic bits there on newer vehicles as well. Most of the parts are quite fragile, and almost any kinda hit will stop the motor.
Medusa, I'm a destructive device dealer, so I have access to about a dozen big uglies, but people with that kind of liscense are really rare. However, even then, when I'm walking around the street I've got one .45 on me (maybe two on a good day) So I just found the number of people busting out LAW rockets on this thread really ironic.
So I just found the number of people busting out LAW rockets on this thread really ironic.El Tejon
Member
Cor, there you go again injecting your beloved reality into our little fantasy world where we are the heros and dealers of death to terrorists, criminals, bears and pumas.
El T, in my next book there is actually a scene where a Mutant Armored Zombie Bear is trying to eat the hero, and the hero pauses in front of the gun safe and asks himself what's the best gun for Mutant Armored Zombie Bears.
No, I'm not making that up either.
No, I'm not making that up either.
El Tejon
Member
Ahhh, I see, art imitates life!
Old Fud
Member
My daughter lives 2 blocks from this guy. Seeing as school opened this week, that means my grandaughter was walking the sidewalks of the local residential streets he had to traverse in order to get to Fremont Boulevard and his first kill.
I tell you this so you'll understand why I'm not enjoying the fun and frivolity of this thread much.
I tell you this so you'll understand why I'm not enjoying the fun and frivolity of this thread much.
knuckles- Yes I do believe a CZ52 with the appropriate loads would pierce an engine block. some of the hotter loadings push a steel core out at 1600-1800 fps.
I'm not sure if it would stop a slant six dodge, but I think it would handle an aluminum block honda.
I just bought a pair of them, I pick the first one up this weekend. I'll call my buddy who works at a junkyard and try to set up a test. Nothing like real data to settle a question once and for all.
I'm not sure if it would stop a slant six dodge, but I think it would handle an aluminum block honda.
I just bought a pair of them, I pick the first one up this weekend. I'll call my buddy who works at a junkyard and try to set up a test. Nothing like real data to settle a question once and for all.
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