What Gun for School Defense?
- Thread starter Hypnogator
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RioShooter
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I disagree; partially. My Mossberg Persuader loaded with "00" buckshot will pattern in the COM out to 30 feet. Shooting across a classroom would not be a problem. However, if I had to shoot down a LONG hallway, I agree a rifle would be better.
Teacher's shouldn't be relied on to fire the weapon's just because the have a job of being a teacher. Some of my teachers have been alcoholics, very small in stature, or just someone I wouldn't entrust my life with in a crisis situation involving guns. I even had a teacher who commited suicide. With a registered handgun no less.
My answer to this post is this: Use the arsenal from the local prison system. What are those guards using? Their weapons are for close range indoors and distance outdoors. They also have to worry about not hitting bystanders and they have lethal and non-lethal options. The state already procured the weapons and ammo, and the guns have been tried and tested.
Option 2: Halon. Replace the sprinkler system with a halon system. It'll stop the bad guys AND put out fires. See the benefits? If the bad guys are outside, get all the students inside, then set off the halon. That way the bad guys wont have any targets and will leave. See how a halon system will get rid of the bad guys? (once again, I'm sure no one is going to agree with me...)
My answer to this post is this: Use the arsenal from the local prison system. What are those guards using? Their weapons are for close range indoors and distance outdoors. They also have to worry about not hitting bystanders and they have lethal and non-lethal options. The state already procured the weapons and ammo, and the guns have been tried and tested.
Option 2: Halon. Replace the sprinkler system with a halon system. It'll stop the bad guys AND put out fires. See the benefits? If the bad guys are outside, get all the students inside, then set off the halon. That way the bad guys wont have any targets and will leave. See how a halon system will get rid of the bad guys? (once again, I'm sure no one is going to agree with me...)
I'd like to say a 9mm AR-15, but I really wish someone made a .45acp AR-15. In a school, I'd worry about over penetration, so I'd stay low on the caliber, but want to back a punch, like a .45acp hand gun, but with a little more accuracy and range.
So my choice would be a Tommy Gun
So my choice would be a Tommy Gun
GW
Member
I think you miss the point
Teachers are the best candidates because they are THERE on the scene when SHTF not 15 minutes away racing in in a patrol car. As for the various mishaps and shortcomings of your teachers well guess what! Police have the same problems with alcoholism and suicide.
As for prison guards, when it is a deadly situation they use rifles & shotguns
Halon has possibilities except that classrooms aren't airtight and that gas gets in ther as well,
"Halon has possibilities except that classrooms aren't airtight and that gas gets in ther as well"
I was hoping that would happen
I was joking about the halon. I wasn't serious, just my attempt at satire and cynicism. Hopefully everybody took it as a stupid joke.
My HS had a security guard. I have no idea if she was armed, but i know she carried handcuffs and pepper spray. She wasn't a regular rent-a-cop. She was a County or school (i'm not sure which) employee who conducted investigations for vandalism and theft. Since security guards aren't really an option for every school, how about giving the ROTC kids real rifles? They already have spiffy uniforms and the drill teams have helmets.
Alot of people support the carbines. I love 10mm's. So how about the Olympic Arms 10mm AR15 style carbines?
I was hoping that would happen
I was joking about the halon. I wasn't serious, just my attempt at satire and cynicism. Hopefully everybody took it as a stupid joke.
My HS had a security guard. I have no idea if she was armed, but i know she carried handcuffs and pepper spray. She wasn't a regular rent-a-cop. She was a County or school (i'm not sure which) employee who conducted investigations for vandalism and theft. Since security guards aren't really an option for every school, how about giving the ROTC kids real rifles? They already have spiffy uniforms and the drill teams have helmets.
Alot of people support the carbines. I love 10mm's. So how about the Olympic Arms 10mm AR15 style carbines?
I'd vote for a pistol caliber carbine with frangible ammo. The longer sight radius is going to make an inexpert shooter more accurate than a pistol.
I'm sure this will happen right after I have to wash my car to get all the poop off it from the flying pigs.
1) It is a matter of cubic money. They'll never spend in any meaningful way on school defense.
2) They'll never open the schools and community up to the sort of legal exposure if ;
a) An innocent person is hit by a stray round.
b) Anybody is injured in a school rampage, even if it is by a rampager.
c) Heaven forbid if an unauthorized person or a kid gets their hands on one of these weapons.
d) Just having weapons in a school.
3) The chance of you or your child being injured or killed by a school rampager is so remote, you have a better chance of winning the lottery.
I'm sure this will happen right after I have to wash my car to get all the poop off it from the flying pigs.
1) It is a matter of cubic money. They'll never spend in any meaningful way on school defense.
2) They'll never open the schools and community up to the sort of legal exposure if ;
a) An innocent person is hit by a stray round.
b) Anybody is injured in a school rampage, even if it is by a rampager.
c) Heaven forbid if an unauthorized person or a kid gets their hands on one of these weapons.
d) Just having weapons in a school.
3) The chance of you or your child being injured or killed by a school rampager is so remote, you have a better chance of winning the lottery.
Sylvan-Forge
Member
State certified annual training course.
Curriculum could be time on SOP, basic marksmanship, draw and fire, move and fire, cover and concealment, etc. not unlike gunsite, thunderranch, blackwater, etc.
Volunteering teachers can seek out all the additional instruction they want, perhaps with some training schools offering accredited courses that go toward the training requirement. I would imagine that a teacher could get a discount rate for training. Need I say the words?
Longarms are pretty much out within the classroom environment for many reasons, such as theft, unauthorized use, etc.
Flexible and rapid response is best achieved with a concealed sidearm by teacher and staff on the school grounds.
Operational security is best achieved with a concealed sidearm.
No one knows who is armed and who is not (hopefully). This is the key.
Teachers could have a sit down together to drive this point home.
Consciencous objectors advised to keep their traps shut. As in, it is your duty as a public school teacher, if you will not carry, to at least maintain operational security and keep silent on the issue.
Might be a fun vacation for some teachers to buddy up and head off to Gunsite academy or the likes.
As far as legal .. does the state think parents of murdered kids are not going to seek damages for failing to implement defenses?
State requires children are educated.
State provides for schools.
State is responsible for child safety while going to, at, and going from school.
So, if the state does not want to be open to liability, they must implement a viable and realistic means of immediate defense.
The best means, IMO, is concealed carry.
Curriculum could be time on SOP, basic marksmanship, draw and fire, move and fire, cover and concealment, etc. not unlike gunsite, thunderranch, blackwater, etc.
Volunteering teachers can seek out all the additional instruction they want, perhaps with some training schools offering accredited courses that go toward the training requirement. I would imagine that a teacher could get a discount rate for training. Need I say the words?
Longarms are pretty much out within the classroom environment for many reasons, such as theft, unauthorized use, etc.
Flexible and rapid response is best achieved with a concealed sidearm by teacher and staff on the school grounds.
Operational security is best achieved with a concealed sidearm.
No one knows who is armed and who is not (hopefully). This is the key.
Teachers could have a sit down together to drive this point home.
Consciencous objectors advised to keep their traps shut. As in, it is your duty as a public school teacher, if you will not carry, to at least maintain operational security and keep silent on the issue.
Might be a fun vacation for some teachers to buddy up and head off to Gunsite academy or the likes.
As far as legal .. does the state think parents of murdered kids are not going to seek damages for failing to implement defenses?
State requires children are educated.
State provides for schools.
State is responsible for child safety while going to, at, and going from school.
So, if the state does not want to be open to liability, they must implement a viable and realistic means of immediate defense.
The best means, IMO, is concealed carry.
OP
OP
Hypnogator
Member
Didn't mean to abandon this topic, but I've been unable to log on for a few days because Verizon decided, with no warning, to terminate their data program. 
I'm now a Sprint user, FWIW. 
I should have added "pistol caliber carbine" to the poll -- that's what happens when you post at midnight after a l-o-n-g day's drive.
Anyway, my take on the problem: I would recommend the M-1 Carbine or a pistol caliber carbine. Since there are no constraints on size, it would be ridiculous to issue handguns of any type. They're much harder to shoot accurately, and the possibility of having to take long shots down hallways or outside on school grounds pretty well eliminates them from consideration. High powered rifles are out, because of concerns about overpenetration, and because they're not all that easy to shoot for the recoil-shy. Shotguns would tend to be high recoiling also, albeit somewhat easier to use. IMHO, even intermediate caliber cartridges such as the 5.56mm & 7.62X39 raise concerns about overpenetration, and the recoil, while negligible to an experienced shooter, may be daunting to a teacher who has only been to the range a couple of times. The .22 RF's wouldn't necessarily be a bad choice, but would lack the penetration to pierce even the most rudimentary armor. The M-1 Carbine in .30 Carbine is one of the easiest and most fool-proof weapons there is to shoot, and the recoil shouldn't affect even the most recoil-shy. Loaded with soft-point hunting ammo, it is quite effective, and mine, at least, is very accurate out to a couple of hundred yards. A pistol caliber carbine in .40 S&W or .45 ACP would be equally as effective, although I'm not entirely certain that any are as easy to use as the M-1.
Thanks to all who replied!
I'm now a Sprint user, FWIW. I should have added "pistol caliber carbine" to the poll -- that's what happens when you post at midnight after a l-o-n-g day's drive.
Anyway, my take on the problem: I would recommend the M-1 Carbine or a pistol caliber carbine. Since there are no constraints on size, it would be ridiculous to issue handguns of any type. They're much harder to shoot accurately, and the possibility of having to take long shots down hallways or outside on school grounds pretty well eliminates them from consideration. High powered rifles are out, because of concerns about overpenetration, and because they're not all that easy to shoot for the recoil-shy. Shotguns would tend to be high recoiling also, albeit somewhat easier to use. IMHO, even intermediate caliber cartridges such as the 5.56mm & 7.62X39 raise concerns about overpenetration, and the recoil, while negligible to an experienced shooter, may be daunting to a teacher who has only been to the range a couple of times. The .22 RF's wouldn't necessarily be a bad choice, but would lack the penetration to pierce even the most rudimentary armor. The M-1 Carbine in .30 Carbine is one of the easiest and most fool-proof weapons there is to shoot, and the recoil shouldn't affect even the most recoil-shy. Loaded with soft-point hunting ammo, it is quite effective, and mine, at least, is very accurate out to a couple of hundred yards. A pistol caliber carbine in .40 S&W or .45 ACP would be equally as effective, although I'm not entirely certain that any are as easy to use as the M-1.
Thanks to all who replied!
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