What sidearm should replace the U.S. M9?

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Personally I'd stick with 9mm. No significant difference between 9mm ball and .45 ball, imo.
Click to expand...


Last week during our local IDPA match we had some 8" plates that were giving the 9mm shooters a BIG head ache. Some of the plates took direct hits at the 6 o' clock and the 7 o' clock and failed to go down. The same type of off center shots with the .45's dropped them EVERY time lol!!! :D
 
Sources Sought Announcement for a Modular Handgun System (FYI)

The Air Force is the latest stucky with the pursuit of a new service pistol. This was released two weeks ago and if you are a betting man the solution is not going to be a 9mm:
The Handgun System should enable the
shooter to produce a wound channel larger than an M882 (NATO 9mm) projectile when firing standard ball (FMJ, non-expanding) ammunition into
ballistic gelatin from a distance of up to 25 meters where the
cavity is measured from 0-14 inches deep.
Click to expand...


The Program Manager for Soldier Weapons (PM-SW) Picatinny Arsenal, NJ
07806-5000, on behalf of the US Air Force, has a requirement for a nondevelopmental handgun. This effort will be conducted in three phases
consisting of a Competitive Down-selection Phase, System Development &
Demonstration (SDD) Phase, and a Full Rate Production (FRP) Phase. This
Sources Sought Notice does not reflect a complete listing of all
requirements for a Modular Handgun System.
The mandatory weapon system requirements follow. Any vendor not
meeting the following mandatory requirements may not be considered a
potential source.
System Performance.
• System Accuracy. Accuracy will be assessed by two measures:
a) To a range of 50 meters, when the weapon is mounted in a machine
rest or manufacturer’s design rest with a human shooter, dispersion
will be no greater than a 4” Circular Error of Probability (CEP).
b) When in the hands of a shooter, the weapon must enable the
shooter to successfully engage E-type silhouettes and:
1) Hit each target with 2 shots to the upper torso and one to the
head within 7 – 10 seconds at 15 meters.
2) Hit the target with 2 shots at 7 meters within 4 seconds.
• Projectile characteristics. The Handgun System should enable the
shooter to produce a wound channel larger than an M882 (NATO 9mm) projectile when firing standard ball (FMJ, non-expanding) ammunition into
ballistic gelatin from a distance of up to 25 meters where the
cavity is measured from 0-14 inches deep.
• Reliability. The Modular Handgun System shall demonstrate 2,000
Mean Rounds Between Stoppage (MRBS) (operator clearable/correctable
stoppages), and 5000 Mean Rounds Between Failures (MRBF) (nonoperator
correctable).
• Service Life. The Modular Handgun shall have a minimum service life
of 25,000 rounds.
System Characteristics.
• Ergonomics. The Modular Handgun System must accommodate the 5th to
95th percentile of users. Determination will be made based on width,
length, grip circumference, location of controls, ambidextrous
controls, etc.
• Target Acquisition Enablers. As a minimum, Mil-Std-1913 rails shall
be incorporated on the weapon to enable rail mounted accessories to
be attached. Integrated aiming /pointed devices are of interest and
will also be evaluated.
• Physical Dimensions: With sights attached and empty magazine
inserted in weapon, the following dimensions are not to be exceeded:
a) The full size version shall be no more than 8.7 inches long, 5.8
inches high, and 1.6 inches wide. Weight shall not exceed 36
ounces.
b) The compact version shall be no larger than 7.5 inches long, 5.8
high, and 1.6 inches wide. Weight shall not exceed 34.5 ounces.
• Detection Avoidance: Weapon shall be of a non-reflective neutral
color. The MHS shall be operable with sound and flash suppression
kit in place.
• Safety Mechanisms: As a minimum, the handgun shall have internal
safety mechanisms in place such that a loaded cartridge will not
Sources Sought Announcement for a Modular Handgun System
Sources Sought Notice MHS 20080424.doc 2
fire if the weapon is dropped from a height of 5 feet onto a
concrete or other hard surface. The weapon shall also have an
external, manually operated safety button/switch operable with one
hand.
Click to expand...
 
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I am surprised that more people are not going for sigs here! I would say a 220 or 226 would fit the bit perfect! Hell the coast gaurd is already on the ball! multi-caliber capability with changing barrels and mags. steel frame, non corrosive finish, hi cap mags, easy take down, most come with night sights, different trigger options or DA"SA, ergonomic, reliable, not as expensive as an HK and gets the job done!
 
G21 SF and G30 SF

I'm sure Glock could include an additional external safety for such a contract.

--Ray
 
HK45 was born of a project to create a sidearm that met the criteria for the next gen military sidearm. But, obviously the trials never made it into reality and the military is probably going to stick with the M9 (and the m16 as well) until we all carry phasers. nobody can agree on anything. Anyone remeber when we were all sure that we knew what the next assault rifle would be?
 
Truth is, those that really need specific weapons for missions will get what they need (MOST of the time), but for the masses, what we are using is working. There are certainly things like the padding in our helmets that should be improved across the board. I find that to be more of a concern of mine. You can get your own padding (get it approved, or sneak it), but a lot of guys don't.
 
Glock 20; Glock 29 for those who want a smaller Glock 10mm pistol (with DoubleTap ammunition only).

Whoever can't handle shooting these, has no business being in the military to begin with. Enough said. :neener:

BTW: Don't say women couldn't handle the G20, because I've seen with my own eyes a female shooting the Glock 20; she got her hands around it, too. No BS excuses! Thanks! :)
 
The Hi-Power would have made more sense when we got on the 9mm NATO bandwagon in the first place. Now two of its biggest military users (Canada & Britain) are considering replacing it. Personally, I'd be all for using the Hi-Power but I don't think the high muckitymucks would be. I agree with mljdeckard: the CZ75 would also be a solid choice but do you really gain much with it instead of the M9?

If they were to let the gates open to polymer competitors, I think the XD might stand a chance because of the slightly more compact grip even on the .45s and the grip safety. Might qualify as an external safety, might not.

If they dropped the external safety requirement, just get 'em Glock 17s and 19s and be done with it. :p

The only reason I don't mention the 1911 is that I can't imagine they're going to step back to that after having gone this long without it.

jm
 
I'd like to see the American Army carry a gun that's made in.... America ! since CZ doesn't have a U.S. factory they're out.

If I couldn't have a CZ I'd say stay W/ the M-9 just make it a .40.

Buy American, the job you save might be your own.
 
Something in .40, probably a Sig.
I don't see a foreign company (CZ) getting into the action, I think they're too small to be able to set up a factory here and churn out enough guns. Could be wrong. The Coast Guard already snapped up a .40 Sig of some kind or other... the rest of the armed forces may follow suit.
 
leadcounsel: ...If you read about the CZ75s, their NATO testing is very impressive and they are the most widely used law enforcement and military pistol in the world.
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I know CZ puts this on their website but that doesn't make it true. Funny, they don't bother to list what LEO's & military use the CZ75.

Heck, a quick look at Wikipedia (FWIW) corrects that marketing hype.

The FN Browning Hi Power is hands down the #1 and has been for a looooong time.
 
The Hk 45 or FN 45. I would be very happy with either one. Oh wait....I already own both ? Oh....even better !
 
Hehe, I knew this thread would have legs, so now I'm going to add my own two cents...

In the current economic and political climate, I think an actual U.S. manufacturer would have a leg up since they could produce a pistol to meet whatever requirements the Defense Department sees fit to lay out, and DOD would get to say to Congress, "look, we're buying American!"

As much as I like .45 ACP, I don't think most in the military would be happy going back to 8 round capacity, give or take, and the high cap double stack .45s are too big for small hands. I also think they'd likely go with a polymer frame because of the weight. So...

S&W M&P 9mm or .40S&W
Ruger P-95 (or an equivalent in .40S&W)
Ruger SR-9 (or an equivalent in .40S&W)
 
The Hi-Power would obviously be the best choice, but a properly made example is too cost prohibitive for our cheap military who will spend $20 billion on a failed aircraft project, but not 10% of that on rifles or pistols. I don't really like the CZ75, but there are similar CZ clone type guns being made in the U.S. right now like the Armalite and some other crapper I saw the other day. The Beretta 92 would actually still be okay with me if they still built them decent like they did back in the day. 90% of the stuff that has been coming out of the Maryland factory the past 15 years must be a joke.
 
I'm not really familiar with what makes a good battle sidearm but i wouldn't mind seeing the S&W M&P full size serve our troops. I know from personal experience it's a great gun and as an added bonus it's American made.
 
On hand size

Having found my copy of Teaching Women to Shoot, the problem of a standardized handgun is grip size and closeness of the trigger. A gun where grips and triggers can be replaced would then be ideal. That rules most Glocks out. Were someone to wield a large handgun with small hands, they must choose between poor grip or an angled trigger-pull. If one can't grip a gun with their hand to the backstrap, there may not be enough support for the slide to eject or load. If one is pulling the trigger by their fingertip, they might be pushing the gun to the side, and missing the mark, since they can't pull the trigger straight back.
 
To quote one Marine in the services after action review of the ground war "Pistols Suck", having said that, there is a need. I don't beleive that we are as tied to NATO standardization of calibers as we were when the decision to go with the 9mm was made. I would think any quality 45 ACP will do the trick, but my guess is it will be a plastic framed variant...probably the M&P or XD.
 
I like HK, and Sig

I like HKs very much. I even carry a USP45 tactical. Sigs are very good also.


But in a modern military context, the thought of a sidearm that costs 4 figures is just plain ridiculous.

I think the Springfield XD45s would be ideal.
 
U.s Military Will Never Accept A Polymer Pistol

as its standard sidearm. It may be possible for them to change calibers 'say back to .45acp but the firearm will still be aluminum or plain steel. But of course it must still have the external safety.

Plastics is for LEO, steel is for the army.:)
 
U.s Military Will Never Accept A Polymer Pistol

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

as its standard sidearm. It may be possible for them to change calibers 'say back to .45acp but the firearm will still be aluminum or plain steel. But of course it must still have the external safety.

Plastics is for LEO, steel is for the army.
Click to expand...


Not quite so. HK MK23 is already in service. It is plastic. There's nothing wrong with the M9, but it's replacement will be a plastic frame with changable grips. The standard sidearm may remain 9mm IMO
 
"to ensure the operational safety of US Armed services"...who writes this crap?
 
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