easyg
Member
Wow, I wonder how all those female cops and female federal agents qualify every year with their Glocks....
What sidearm should replace the U.S. M9?
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Guillermo
member
Obviously a 45acp like the M&P or the XD.
While I am a big XD fan, the adaptability of the M&P grip might make it a better choice.
While I am a big XD fan, the adaptability of the M&P grip might make it a better choice.
dogtown tom
Member
Think about this:
What firearms will be remembered fondly in 2058?
"Saving Private Ryan" rekindled interest in the Garand, M1 Carbine and pretty much everything about The Greatest Generation. Although popular before that movie came out, the nostalgia and need to connect with our country's history caused prices and demand to skyrocket for US military weapons.
Like it or not, movies and television wield tremendous influence over what guns people buy. Glock "Fotays" wouldn't be the choice of innercity gangsters if they didn't hear it in a rap song on MTV. Most of us probably wanted the same gun carried by Rooster Cogburn, Bat Masterson, Dirty Harry or Napolean Solo. I did.
Although my Dad (a Korean War vet) remembers the Garand with reverence, he thinks the 1911 was useless junk- a jammamatic. He swapped his for a M2 carbine as soon as he could. I think it has been stated before that every soldier will complain about everything. The food is crap, my gear is crap, my gun is crap. And fifty years later we shell out big $$$$$ for the crap our fathers & grandfathers carried.
So let's think ahead to 2058.......I would bet that our children and grandchildren will attach the same fondness, reverence and mysticism to the M9 Beretta that many of us Baby Boomers do the the 1911, Hi Power and Single Action Colt .45
Oh........and I'm sure that there will still be arguments of which is better for self defense: 50 gigawatt lasers or 51.
What firearms will be remembered fondly in 2058?
"Saving Private Ryan" rekindled interest in the Garand, M1 Carbine and pretty much everything about The Greatest Generation. Although popular before that movie came out, the nostalgia and need to connect with our country's history caused prices and demand to skyrocket for US military weapons.
Like it or not, movies and television wield tremendous influence over what guns people buy. Glock "Fotays" wouldn't be the choice of innercity gangsters if they didn't hear it in a rap song on MTV. Most of us probably wanted the same gun carried by Rooster Cogburn, Bat Masterson, Dirty Harry or Napolean Solo. I did.
Although my Dad (a Korean War vet) remembers the Garand with reverence, he thinks the 1911 was useless junk- a jammamatic. He swapped his for a M2 carbine as soon as he could. I think it has been stated before that every soldier will complain about everything. The food is crap, my gear is crap, my gun is crap. And fifty years later we shell out big $$$$$ for the crap our fathers & grandfathers carried.
So let's think ahead to 2058.......I would bet that our children and grandchildren will attach the same fondness, reverence and mysticism to the M9 Beretta that many of us Baby Boomers do the the 1911, Hi Power and Single Action Colt .45
Oh........and I'm sure that there will still be arguments of which is better for self defense: 50 gigawatt lasers or 51.
RustyShackelford
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A HK P-30/P-2000 type with ambi controls in .45 or .357sig
I'd say a HK type pistol in either a .45acp or a new type .40/.357sig caliber. The .45acp works very well but the .357/.40 feeds better, holds more rounds in most mags and goes deeper than the fat 230gr load.
A high tech P-2000 or P-30 HK model with full ambi controls/safeties would be my 1st pick.
Big ups to the SIGsauer P-250 in a .40/.357sig too...
RS
I'd say a HK type pistol in either a .45acp or a new type .40/.357sig caliber. The .45acp works very well but the .357/.40 feeds better, holds more rounds in most mags and goes deeper than the fat 230gr load.
A high tech P-2000 or P-30 HK model with full ambi controls/safeties would be my 1st pick.
Big ups to the SIGsauer P-250 in a .40/.357sig too..
.RS
Darthbauer
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one where the ammo wont fall out of the mag if some sand gets in it.
Thernlund
Member
I don't think so. Unless something major change in the public mind happens, there won't be any war to look back on with reverence in 2058. Wars just aren't popular anymore. That's where the nostalgia comes from. The cause. Soldiers doing a noble job fighting for a noble cause in the eyes of the public. Starting with Vietnam wars just began to be unpopular. The public certainly has reverence for a soldier putting his life on the line. But the public no longer has reverence for the cause, no matter what the cause is. I'd be willing to bet that there is no possible cause left the world, even if we were invaded, that would get the public mind in the fight.
More on point, the public mind doesn't have anything it wants to be nostalgic about when it comes to war. Don't forget... we live in a different age from when fathers gave their sons an old service weapon and a story to go with it.
(I speak of course of the WHOLE public as one. Those who do in fact give guns and tell stories should not be offended personally. Just realize that, these days, you're the minority.)
-T.
rocketfish
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I have one very important requirement for any future service pistol:
NOTHING FOREIGN MADE OR MADE BY A FOREIGN OWNED COMPANY
No Glocks, No Berettas, no FN, and no rebadged XD's from Croatia, sorry.
I think it ridiculous and shameful that we arm our soldiers with pistols of foreign owned companies. We have got to keep American dollars here and support American companies.
NOTHING FOREIGN MADE OR MADE BY A FOREIGN OWNED COMPANY
No Glocks, No Berettas, no FN, and no rebadged XD's from Croatia, sorry.
I think it ridiculous and shameful that we arm our soldiers with pistols of foreign owned companies. We have got to keep American dollars here and support American companies.
Leif Runenritzer
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Wow, I wonder how all those female cops and female federal agents qualify every year with their Glocks....
I didn't mean to imply that it's impossible for women who have small hands to wield a Glock. Larger handguns put folks with small hands at a disadvantage, which can be overcome. But to what degree, i have no idea. IMO, when everyone has to have the same thing, it's behooveful to issue something that's adjustable.
ETA: It might look like i'm saying that all women have small hands, but i am not.
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moooose102
Member
either a 45 acp, 45 winchester magnum (i know this is not a popular caliber, but it would be if adopted by the military), or 10mm! whoever manufactures the gun, is up to them, just as long as it is stone dead reliable. i suppose the real reasoning behind using the 9mm, is that it is available all over the world, so it is much more likely to be able to find it locally if in a combat situation, and their supply lines were cut off. i have no idea how any other countries have gun shops available to citizens. i am sure that many restrict any and all types of firearms and ammo sales. so i am not sure how well this stratagy would play out in a real life situation. the 9mm is certainly capable of good clean kills at close range, but they are talking about test firing @ 50 meters. that little 9 is going to have trouble at that didtance, imo. a 10 would be much better @ that range. i wonder if the military has thought about bullets like hornadys SST bullets. in my tiny little brain, it would seem to me that that nice little silicone tip should take a lot of abuse before it messes up. that would help any caliber out @50 yards.
OP
OP
cluttonfred
Member
OK, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say...maybe the sidearm shouldn't be a pistol. No, I'm not suggesting the Serbu Super Shorty shotgun -- attention-getting but only three shots.
If we are stuck with ball ammo, and likely 9mm, maybe the sidearm needs be a pistol-carbine? I don't mean a pistol-caliber longarm, but a holsterable, pistol-type weapon with a folding stock that can be fired offhand as a pistol but, better yet, can be fired with a folding stock.
Even if 9mm ball has it's problems, multiple hits will certainly do the job. It's a lot easier for the non-Special Forces types to get multiple hits with a shoulder weapon than with a pistol. Full auto or burst fire might be an option, though ammo wastage might argue for semi-auto only.
There are a lot of examples out there, past and present (Czech Skorpion 9mm, Micro Uzi, even that homely Peruvian assault pistol mentioned in a recent THR thread) but the most likely candidates right now are:
The MP5K is a bit too big, and the Glock arrangement doesn't look like it would stand up to hard use, so my vote is for a B&T MP9 (semi-auto only, or maybe burst, no full auto) to be the new U.S. sidearm.
OK, flame away!
If we are stuck with ball ammo, and likely 9mm, maybe the sidearm needs be a pistol-carbine? I don't mean a pistol-caliber longarm, but a holsterable, pistol-type weapon with a folding stock that can be fired offhand as a pistol but, better yet, can be fired with a folding stock.
Even if 9mm ball has it's problems, multiple hits will certainly do the job. It's a lot easier for the non-Special Forces types to get multiple hits with a shoulder weapon than with a pistol. Full auto or burst fire might be an option, though ammo wastage might argue for semi-auto only.
There are a lot of examples out there, past and present (Czech Skorpion 9mm, Micro Uzi, even that homely Peruvian assault pistol mentioned in a recent THR thread) but the most likely candidates right now are:
The MP5K is a bit too big, and the Glock arrangement doesn't look like it would stand up to hard use, so my vote is for a B&T MP9 (semi-auto only, or maybe burst, no full auto) to be the new U.S. sidearm.
OK, flame away!
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Dale Gribble
Member
Glock 21 period!
So if "we" don't want a foreign firearm, we should insist that the copper and lead come from mines on American soil, right? The elements for the powder? The brass?
The money the government will use to buy these weapons is mostly foreign money loaned to the U.S., all creating this huge blob we call the national debt that will soon be so big that yearly taxes will barely make the INTEREST payments. We're so screwed it's not even funny, and no politicians have cared enough to make serious changes...
Personally, let the military buy whatever it wants for the M9.
Just make sure to give me the M11
The money the government will use to buy these weapons is mostly foreign money loaned to the U.S., all creating this huge blob we call the national debt that will soon be so big that yearly taxes will barely make the INTEREST payments. We're so screwed it's not even funny, and no politicians have cared enough to make serious changes...
Personally, let the military buy whatever it wants for the M9.
Just make sure to give me the M11
The sad truth is that the powers that be would rather spend billions on a new bomber than new hanguns and rifles.
I think there should be a new rifle, gas piston design in 6.8SPC or larger, and a new handgun, in 40 S&W or 45 ACP. I like the capacity of my SP-01 (19+1) but I'm a civilian and get to use hollow points. As others have pointed out ball ammo sucks.
There won't be a change anytime soon, but there will be plenty more B2's, Osprey, and Comanche programs.
I think there should be a new rifle, gas piston design in 6.8SPC or larger, and a new handgun, in 40 S&W or 45 ACP. I like the capacity of my SP-01 (19+1) but I'm a civilian and get to use hollow points. As others have pointed out ball ammo sucks.
There won't be a change anytime soon, but there will be plenty more B2's, Osprey, and Comanche programs.
RustyShackelford
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PDWs; SAS carry- vehicles/aircraft/boats/etc...
I've seen a few of these PDW type machine pistols/sidearms in gun magazines/catalogs. I do not think they would work very well in the SAS type holster rigs for many of our US service members,
. The troops bang around in tight quarters(aircraft, vehicles, boats, etc). They must also lug around huge combat packs/body armor/gear. Most of them are in 100-120 degree heat too!
Whatever new sidearm/M-9 the DoD picks they would need to test/R&D it to insure it keeps our brave men and women safe.
Rusty
I've seen a few of these PDW type machine pistols/sidearms in gun magazines/catalogs. I do not think they would work very well in the SAS type holster rigs for many of our US service members,
. The troops bang around in tight quarters(aircraft, vehicles, boats, etc). They must also lug around huge combat packs/body armor/gear. Most of them are in 100-120 degree heat too! Whatever new sidearm/M-9 the DoD picks they would need to test/R&D it to insure it keeps our brave men and women safe.
Rusty
ochmude
Member
As my first battery commander told me, the M9 is nothing more than a weapon of spite, to be used when all hope is essentially lost anyway. That's why it's issued to SNCOs and officers who won't be the first one through the door, so to speak. If they actually need to EVER fire their weapon, it means the platoon of riflemen and crew served weapons that they were in the middle of has met an unfortunate fate. No pistol is going to do much in that situation but keep you alive a few more minutes. If there's a possibility you might need to use your pistol, you'll be issued a rifle. That's the standing order in Iraq, currently. If there's a larger possibility that you'll REALLY need to use you're pistol, you're likely performing more "specialized" operations, and you'll likely be issued a better pistol. The M9 simply isn't meant for any high speed mission. It's purely a weapon of last resort.
Thernlund
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Gunnerpalace
Member
I don't think the Army uses reloads,
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