What would you do in a situation like this?

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Kenneth Lew

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Scenario:

Your sitting with a friend at a local Waffle House eating some food late at night.

1. A goup of 6 people come in and sit in the two booths behind you.
2. One lets say, 50 cent wannabe decides to punch his girlfriend in the head saying, "Don't disrespect me, B$%$#."
3. Two waitresses intervene telling them not to do that (Waffle House posts sort of a code of conduct along the walls).
4. 50 cents wannabe decides that his manhood is hurt leaves stating that he is going to get his GAUGE in his car to set things straight.
5. His entourage leaves with him (4 homies).
6. Waitress locks the door, directing the diners to get behind the counter and DUCK. Other waitress calls 911.

What would you do?

This is a true story a lot of details left out.
 
Given only the data available I would:

1) Get behind the counter or into the restroom (find the best cover possible.)

2) Duck

3) Prepare to defend myself and loved ones (draw weapon and position myself to protect the "refuge"

Other than that given that 911 has been called would be excessive at this point, however if shots are fired, the "plan" needs re-evaluation and revision.

As with most scenarios it is difficult to make a reasoned response with out all the information you would have by being there.
 
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I'd hunker back behind the counter, pistol out and against my leg waiting for the sound of the door to open, glass to break, shots fired. Spare mag/speedloader/speedstrip in weak hand at the ready, since I potentially have 4 assailants. I'd reinforce the counter near me with pots, dishes, whatever was handy to stop a bullet or two.

I'd find like minded folks in the group (it's a waffle house: there has to be an armed trucker or something), I'd distribute steak-knives for the purpose of throwing as a distraction for folks with no weapons. Gunnies (if more than 1) spread out, hoping to flank any entry by the main entrance.
 
Assuming I didn't panic...

Firstly I'd be pretty upset at the waitress for trapping us inside but that's another matter.

First priority would be to try to find out what other exit(s) are available and see if we could get everyone OUT. I'd also prepare (at least mentally) to -create- my own exit if necessary (chair through window or whatever).

Concealment is not cover. I know how most diner type resturants are constructed. Fast movement and escape probably stand a higher chance of success than "bunker" mentality when there isn't any real cover.

Tell the others to grab anything at hand and be ready to throw or hit with it (I.E. do whatever necessary to overwhelm). I bet a cloud of thrown syrup, sugar, salt, etc. would be kinda hard to see through.

If it became apparent that several of us were armed, I would try to get us all spread out, not clustered together.

Honestly though most of my thoughts are how to "escape and evade".
 
Take anyone you care about...

... and head for the bathroom. Ask if anyone wants to join, but don't put yourself in a position where you're waiting for anyone either. Lock the door if you can and get into a nice low shooting position. Thats all you can do. Make sure your loved ones are on the ground in case of over penetration and be sure to know who your target is before you fire. (ie another scared person or a responding officer)
What did you end up doing???

After reading ZeSpectre's post I must say that I would have to agree on the back exit idea.
 
I was not there. It happened to someone else. It took a while for the police to arrive.
 
I'd grab a handful of Fiddy Cent's hashbrowns and sausage while headed for the backdoor or grab the whole plate if he ordered a Denver Omlette.

Biker
 
I think I would have a hard time being afraid of someone who called a shotgun a "gauge". Unless he was pointing the small end at me, of course.
 
Eggzactly, I'm not about to get shot over defending somebody else's omelette stand.

I'm out the back with pistol at low ready and anyone with any sense will be right on my behind. The rest can argue about how to split up that Darwin Award they're vying for.

+1 Biker grab a handfull of homies hash browns on the way out!
 
i saw this post back when it had no replies. i wanted to wait to see what others said to see if anyone said anything better. so far nothing that i hadnt considered.

my plan would be the same as what i thought of when i first read this. duck out the back door with any friends and family in tow. i dont have a ccw and my guns out in the trunk of my car(if i have one at all). im getting to my car and leaving the area asap when things hit the fan. ill return and talk to the police when they get there. to tell them whatever info i have.

if i had a gun with me at the time id consider the restroom as a bunker, but thats only if i didnt have a clear path to the car. if the restroom had a door lock id lock it after whoever was comming in was there and that door wouldnt open for nothing till things were over.

EDIT: i hadnt seen bikers snatch n grab on fidy cents hashbrowns comment, good idea.
 
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get behind good cover, draw and keep at low ready. i'm not about to let a bunch of [possibly]defenceless diners get injured or killed because i decided to hightail it to save my own ass. i care for my family, loved ones, etc. and i will protect them, or tell them to leave [run like a bat from hell]. however, i wouldn't feel so good if i saw in the news the next day: "INNOCENT DINERS KILLED BY GANG MEMBER", and know i could have saved so many lives.

Not worded the best, but you get the idea.

~tmm
 
Depends,

on a lot of variables. Hard to make a rule when you're not there in person, but:
Evaluate E&E routes out back or side doors, are they visible to the goons outside getting their weapons? If not visible to the bad guys, di di, di di mou (bug out). If I can't get away clean and had time, load a couple of pots with deep fat oil and hand to the unarmed. Pour some on the floor inside the door where the baddies are going to come in, head for the bathroom and bunker as best you can.
 
if a clear path is available out, take everyone you can and get out as fast as you can, im not real sure about the entire bathroom idea, it could very quickly turn into a tomb for everyone inside, especially if your the only one carrying. the last thing i would want to do is back myself into a corner.
 
The Bunkering mentality will get you killed. Someone mentioned it but concealment is not cover. I would split out an alternative exit. Even if I had to make one!

Counters and bathroom doors are not bullet proof.
 
No firearm has been displayed, no one has challenged you, your life or well being is not in imminent danger, why would you draw your weapon? By all means draw your weapon and keep it visible, so when the police arrive, responding to " man with a gun" call' they can look into the window and see someone with a drawn weapon waiting to ambush them. Yes, by all means I think that's the thing to do. Or better still run out the back door with your weapon drawn just as the police arrive, that will highlight your day! To each his own, but if it happened to me, my concealed weapon would remain concealed until there was a real and present danger!!!! You are not a police officer and you should not try and act out your movie fantasys.
 
If I heard the guy state he was going to get his gun, then I would be close enough to follow him out the door as he left and get the hell out of there. If the waitress told me I couldn't leave and she tried to lock the door then she would be in my way of escape and would promptly be set aside.
 
Keep the gun concealed until there's a direct threat? Good, very good.
"Get outta Denver, baby go!" Yep.
Use the back door? Absolutely.
Leave some cash on the table? If you think you have time.
Steal his french fries on the way out? Sounds like a plan :)

Follow the hothead out the front door? Umm, do you really want to be following him when he says he's going to get a shotgun? How's he going to react to that?
Run out the back gun drawn? Into the police? Gun drawn with your back to the threat? Might want to rethink that.
Hide behind concealment in the bathroom? Only if it's the most defensible spot in the place and you can't escape. Be ready for hilarity when the police clear the bathroom.
 
First mistake--being at a Waffle House late at night. But, I digress.

Beat an orderly retreat through the back door. Anyone who wants to follow is welcome to do so.

K
 
Real world experience...

I've been in a few Denny's late at night when people started having issues with staff or each other. A few fights have broken out, and one person did leave saying they were, "going for my gun" -- that time, the waitress looked really stressed but they didn't close the doors. When we started talking to her, she said, "I'm just a little jumpy, since we had a guy last night who actually did come back with a gun. Usually they don't. It was a major stink and the restaurant was closed for 4 hours."

The strangest semi-related scene was a few years ago (1999 now that I think about it) when a friend and I were sitting in the local Jack in the Box having a snack at about 10:30PM. There were a lot of people around, a fact I attributed at the time to the local cheap movie theater just letting out or something.

Suddenly, we see a van haul ass across the parking lot drive through a crowd of people, nearly hitting some. The van stops, and the driver (no shirt, tats, yadda yadda) gets out and runs over to one person in the crowd and shoves them to the ground. A start of a fight ensues, but a bunch of other people, maybe 20-30, rush in, and they start pushing the van driver. Van driver's shoving victim gets up, and words are exchanged... more people are entering the parking lot, almost exactly as though this was an arranged meeting.

Another car, an old olds or the like, does the same "drive through the crowd" stunt... at this point the restaurant is full and people are staring out the window. There are maybe 50-60 people in the crowd outside, and more people are coming into the parking lot. The driver of the second car gets out, and he and the van driver start getting in each other's face and screaming. Inside the Jack in the Box a line of women form to use the restroom. The parking lot seems to have maybe 100 people, and more are coming in.

Van driver pulls a stainless steel revolver out of his pants and starts brandishing it... this was about 30 feet from the restaurant (there was a green area, a sidewalk, and a row of parked cars between us and them. At that point, restaurant employees lock all the doors (there were maybe 40 people inside at that point) and get on the phone. 911 I assume. It became a lot harder to see what was happening then because most of the people in the restaurant were crammed up against the windows watching the crowd. I was sitting there eating my onion rings -- I wasn't about to stand up to watch, but I could still see most of what was going on. The group of people was still growing and there was an active shoving match/low-key brawl going on... a bunch of people were kicking one guy, then more people showed up. A steady stream of people, mostly Hispanic women, came up to the doors and tried to come in. At the end, the mass of involved people was a churning and shoving amoeba about 150' wide and 250' long, with a nucleus of air and, I assume, the original fighters. Outside the main group were little pockets of people (i.e. us in the restaurant, and individuals or small groups standing around watching). I'd hesitate to estimate the exact number, but hundreds. The fringe of the group wrapped around the restaurant, but the main focus was a little ways off in a "road" part of the parking lot where there was more room for everyone to do whatever they were doing.

It continued that way for about 15 minutes, with a growing crowd that was starting to develop migration patterns with occasional new cars coming into the mix, bloody people leaving, and so on....then, suddenly, people on one side of the crowd all started running in every direction. The dispersal spread across the crowd like a wave, with people scattering as soon as they saw others scattering. Some walked off quickly, some ran. A few stayed. Oddly, the core group didn't break up, though some people were obviously trying to convince their friends to leave. It was about another 3-4 minutes from the time people started running until we saw why they were running, because at that point a bunch of cop cars raced into the parking lot.

So cop cars charge in, then more cop vehicles (vans and the like) show up, and cops run to catch certain individuals, including the guy who brandished the revolver. No real standoffs... he tried to get in his van and drive away but they stopped him. He got out of the van and allowed himself to be handcuffed. There was none of the "cops" style thuggishness on the part of the police. I was expecting to see a jackboot convention, but perhaps the fact that the police were outnumbered maybe 20:1 even after the crowd broke up kept them civilized. According to the news they arrested 5 people.

Overall, the doors were locked for about 35 minutes. Once the restaurant unlocked the doors, we went to our car and drove away. The next day, I called the person I was eating with and said, "Did that really happen?"

What did I do? In every case, I ate. Why? Even if somone started shooting, the odds of catching even a stray bullet were about as close as you can get to zero without being absolute zero. I had more concern for my safety on the drive home.
 
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