What would you do in a situation like this?

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Well...Homie "HAS TO GO GET HIS GUN"

If this is the case, I will simply de-butt the area with all haste and vigor with my wife and little one.

To be sure, my right hand will be empty so I can grab my G21 (legally concealed) in a hurry.

But again...Homie still has to go get his gun, and I have ZERO intention of waiting around wasting valuable SEE YA time while he goes and gets the alleged gun.

I don't get paid to "serve and protect" anyone but my family anymore.

And...NO, I am not going to let someone lock me or my family into what could become a charnel house. Take your opportunity to avoid a gunfight, and you win automatically.

I am all about being a good witness.
 
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Keep one eye on the LARGE GLASS WINDOWS overlooking the parking lot. Be aware of the exits, and any of Homie's buds that might still be in the area. Make sure my cover garment of choice is not impeding a draw of my CCW.

Odds are Homie will posture around the parking lot acting all bad for about 30 seconds then jump in his "ryde" and motor on his way with a hand gesture or two. Especially if Homie knows the po-po is on its way. The worst thing you could do is all run in fear and panic.

In the meantime sit back, enjoy the Cheese Steak Omelette and raisin toast with applebutter with my well-done hash browns scattered, smothered, covered and dunked in ketchup.

However if I see a trunk popped and stuff coming out it would be time to hit the back door right about now!


I had this exact same situation occur at a strip club called "The Doll House" in Columbus one night around midnight. I was working for a towing company, and one of the things we did was, the owner of a business next door to the strip club didn't like the fact that some of the strip club patrons didn't want to be seen or caught at the strip club, so they parked their vehicles in his lot and walked over to the strip club. I would wait for people to enter the posted lot, leave and walk to the Doll House. We were to wait ten minutes and tow the cars. I had a Ford Dually Diesel truck with a repo-rig wheel-lift tow bar on the back, the kind that folds up under the bumper and you can't tell it's a tow truck. Great for repo jobs.
A group of hispanic guys and a group of black dudes were escorted out of the building. Apparantly one of the dancers was the "girlfriend" of one of the hispanic dudes and he didn't like the way the one black dude was behaving while his GF was dancing. The argument continued in the lot and the black dude shouts that he was getting his shotgun from his car. Black dude's friends attempted to reason with him and physically threw him into the backseat of the car. After a half dozen or so times of him trying to get out and access his trunk they finally left. At the time I was on the phone with the 911 dispatcher with a Glock 21 at low ready behind the partial cover of the Ford Dually tow truck at the lot perimeter, after already hoofing it over to the Doll House to warn their door bouncer.
About 5 minutes later three CPD cruisers roared in, and of course the black dudes were long gone. They walked around interviewing people, ignored me completely, and 2 left after maybe 5 minutes on scene. The third stuck around maybe 5 more minutes.

The thing that struck me the most about that incident is the fact that people were coming and going ,and would stand around watching these guys fighting. If he did get to the shotgun (And I had no doubt he had one, he was angry enough and determined enough to get into the trunk for sure)there would have been a lot of people in the line of fire that didn't need to be.
 
I have a secondary question.

Many of you advocate heading out the back entrance if there is one. Why? The reason I ask is 99% of the Waffle Houses out there are all pretty much the same, i.e., tiny.

Running out the back won't take you out of the situation and more than likely place you into an open area without any type of cover at all. What's to stop 4 Bits from simply stepping, running, or driving around back?

I don't support bunkering down either, but if you think about the layout of most Waffle Houses it seems like the better option to me. You have at least some cover, you have a good view of 4 Bits and his nickel cronies through the huge windows, and more than likely, if weapons are shown, you have a very compressed avenue of approach (the front door) that will funnel them single file into your awaiting line of fire.

I would keep the backdoor in mind, and maybe have everyone ready to bolt out the back if I start firing, but it seems to me the best place to defend yourself initially would be from behind the counter.

Pick this apart, as maybe there is something I'm not seeing, but with the layout of most Waffle Houses, in my mind, this seems like a better deal.
 
Many of you advocate heading out the back entrance if there is one. Why? The reason I ask is 99% of the Waffle Houses out there are all pretty much the same, i.e., tiny.
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Because in the scenario outlined, the waitress had just locked the front door. I'm not going to waste my time arguing with her (or other customers who might think locking that big glass door makes them safe) while trying to get the door unlocked, I'm going to try and leave by the most expedient method possible. If I see someone actually coming back with a gun that will be via a chair through another window if necessary.

I don't support bunkering down either, but if you think about the layout of most Waffle Houses it seems like the better option to me. You have at least some cover, you have a good view of 4 Bits and his nickel cronies through the huge windows, and more than likely, if weapons are shown, you have a very compressed avenue of approach (the front door) that will funnel them single file into your awaiting line of fire.
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Actually what you have is concealment. Cover would stop the bullets. There isn't much in your average resturant that is going to stop bullets. I don't want to be in any place that allows an armed enemy to regroup and approach from a different direction while I'm stuck behind a counter (or under a table).

I would keep the backdoor in mind, and maybe have everyone ready to bolt out the back if I start firing,
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At that point there's going to be panic. I don't know if you've ever seen a panic-rush on a door but usually the first person gets through and the rest "bottle up" for a while before anyone gets out. BAD situation, I've seen it firsthand.

it seems to me the best place to defend yourself initially would be from behind the counter.
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Only if you had a way out, that counter is only concealment at best so you might get one or two "ambush" shots off but then you'd better haul butt away or face return fire.

If Fiddy-cent and his pals actually returned with weapons, they might try to walk back in the door, bold as brass, but it's also possible that they'd just line up at the windows and open up. Shooting those inside would be like shooting fish in a barrel. Best option (in my opinion) is to get OUT of the barrel.

Just my $.02 worth :)
 
Well, if I'm armed, I'd probably set my gun next to me or in my lap, and continue eating...He has no RIGHT to disturb my meal.

If and when he ACTUALLY makes an agressive maneuver (unlikely...just another "tough guy wannabe"), I'd blow him into the next world...and continue eating until the cops arrive.

Sorry, but I'm kinda stupid that way.

Seen WAY to many "bada$$s", that were all bluff and no cojones, to even be bothered by any of them.
 
Follow the hothead out the front door? Umm, do you really want to be following him when he says he's going to get a shotgun? How's he going to react to that?

Yep, that's what I am going to do since he has to go get his gun which is in his car and I already have mine, I am going out the front door right after him instead of getting bottled up in a restuarant. Maybe I see it differently but when confronted with things like this I tend to go head on to confront the problem instead of holing up or backing down and hiding (within reason). I personally don'twant to fight others to get out the back door and I am not holing myself up in a bathroom unless I absolutely have to.
With most of these fiddy cent wannabes, if you show you are the aggressor they want nothing to do with you and you go on your way. I have seen it firstahnd and been in a similar situation in the past. It's how I acted then and how I would act today.
 
Being intimately familiar with the House of Waffles I have a couple of problems with exiting, or hiding behind the counter. The standard layout is basically a square counter within a square building with large glass windows on three sides. As ZeSpectre points out the counter isn't cover, it's concealment at best. And since the WH is always well lit from within, you can see pretty well from outside, but lots of reflections will cut down on visibility from within. So moving behind the counter, if it comes down to a worst case scenerio, basically puts you in position to go toe to toe with his shotgun. Going out the back probably sends you into a large concealment and/or cover free parking lot, away from your vehicle. The bathroom side is a dead end trap, again with cover, but no place to run if it goes bad. Going out the front is chancy, but by myself I might risk it; keeps him in sight, hopefully there's a car or two in the front parking row to soak up bullets, it puts me closer to my car and a long gun and maybe you can diffuse the situation with a "Not worth it brotherman. Cops already on the way." People with me, I'd probably want to be positioned right near the front window opposite the entranceway; under the glass is usually a 2'-3' cinderblock or brick wall that'll stop more than the counter will. Also, assuming he gets in and that his first target will be either the girl he punched or the waitress, and they're behind the counter, maybe I can send my fam out the front windows, and/or I'll get a chance at a few flanking shots before I'm facing the shotgun. Failing that, I'd want to be beside the counter on the storeroom/freezer side. Crappy concealment/cover, but you could retreat into the storeroom and/or exit out the back, or go through the side window. In any case, I'd want seperation between me and his primary target(s) to give me the best chance at a clean initial shot. I'd also want to conceal my weapon until I'm in the act of shooting.
 
Prepare the syrup based molotov cocktails?

I'm for out the back as I think the bad guys are going to be messing around in front, rather than ambushing the back.

Call the cops on the cell phone yourself, tell them that there is a shootout in progress - in case the waitress was wishy washy in her call.
 
First Kentak +1 as many scenarios as I see starting “in/at the Waffle House”
I guess I don’t see this the same as some but here goes.

1. Call the police.
2. Do not go to the bathroom there is no line of retreat little or no cover and the only choke point is the door and that means giving them to much. Look up the largest mass murder in the U.S. (was committed with a can of gas into the doorway/stairwell of a club). Running out into the night with my wife and child/children with no plan goal of transport is not a plan it is panic.
2. Leave you gun holstered until you have something to shoot at and a justification to do so. Then put it away unless you are actively holding someone at gun point.
3. Go to the kitchen: this is in my opinion the best option for most restaurants and fast food places. Best cover (freezers and such stop bullets just fine. Line of retreat, fire and health codes require a separate exit anywhere I have ever looked (fire exit and you can’t haul the trash through the eating area. More weapons (knives boiling water hot oil Etc.
4. Do your best to keep everyone calm and under cover. Look to barricading / impeding the ingress route (a pot of hot oil can be tipped over quickly and makes their travel really tough. Plan an orderly retreat to take place only when active resistance has failed. If people want to leave let them you have no right to hold them unless it would grant access to the hostiles.
5. Wait for the police remember that almost every historical reference that I can think of where numerically inferior forces prevailed against superior number / fire power they adopted a seconded defender posture. The Roark’s drift, adobe walls, thermopile, the wagon box fight.
6. As stated above they are probably more show than go but don’t bet your life on it.
 
Nothin' wrong with backdoorin' the Waffle House - I got the cover of darkness, a fistful of hashbrowns, a .45 and a bad attitude. I'm set.

Biker
 
retreat, you're not a hero even if you play one on the internet. You're out numbered (5 guys) and out gunned (shotgun vs. your ccw) and you have loved ones or friends to worry about. Sticking around is dumb. Planning a counter attack will result in death. Stand up, say "I'm getting the HELL outta here" and go out the back door. Don't play magnum p.i., cops, superman, or whatever you want to call it. If you can't leave (no back door, etc.) then worry about being superman. But remember that retreat is always the best line of defense in these situations. It's self defense not self offense.
 
SRYnidan -- I've only been in two Waffle House restaurants so maybe I'm off base, but... they don't have kitchens. They have an area behind the counter with griddle and waffle irons. They can be staffed with one or two people (waitress/cook or waitress and cook) and are set up so that even some of the booths are only a sheet of plywood away from the food prep area. There is no cover in the kitchen.

I still say keep eating. The odds of someone actually coming back armed are slim to none, and if they do come back you can deal with it then.
 
Look up the largest mass murder in the U.S. (was committed with a can of gas into the doorway/stairwell of a club).
Click to expand...

Wrong. The largest mass murder in the US was committed with two airplanes. Never forget.
 
wafflehouse.jpg


Hide in a Waffle House at night? Too many windows and the grill is on the back wall in the dining area. (Did I say dining area?) It would be easier to find a hiding place in a double-wide trailer. Back door or front door would be my move.

John
 
Biker, the "smothered and covered" hashbrowns constitute deadly force. Twenty years down the line from a heart attack, but still deadly :p
 
Keep eating watch the door and windows, shoot the idiot if he enters with a gun.

(you do not want to exit through a resturant kitchen. You would fall down and puke with what you would see and then get shot while writhering in a fetal position)
 
(you do not want to exit through a resturant kitchen. You would fall down and puke with what you would see and then get shot while writhering in a fetal position)
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ROTFLMAO
 
You're all missing the pivotal question: Is the food any good?
If yes, ask for coupons, barricade the establishment, and prepare to repel boarders.
If no, take a line from the Bible and wipe the dust of that joint off thy feet.... and don't leave a tip.
 
If the right friend were with me, and the BGs attempt to re-enter the Waffle House, I lean over to the friend and whisper in his or her ear,
"At the whistle. Tweet."
:evil:
 
Eat the pancakes, leave a good tip. dont fear the people who say their getting a gun fear the ones that say nothing.
Click to expand...

I think this makes a great secondary point. How many people remain in a
heightened state of awareness after a confrontation when one party just
storms off without saying they'll be back?
 
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