What would you do in a situation like this?

[migoi]

It took me a bit..

to figure out your opening remark there, Mr. KFH. Were they really related to you? I've got a sister that I wouldn't have suprised me if she had ever ended up on national news in this fashion...but I digress.

I think the situations are exactly the same (WH vs. kid of freeway). Are you (general you, not specific you), willing to put yourself in jeopardy to help/save those not of your tribe (family and friends).

The woman on a bridge would only be similiar if you had to get off the road and over the rail, placing yourself in danger, in order to help talk her down.

The original post said you were sitting with a friend. No family around to worry about other than orphaning one's kids and widowing one's wife.

Again, I'm not meaning to disparage anyone's decisions, just explore the depth of the "no risk taking for the benefit of non-tribal members" concept that runs beneath the "heading out the back door, thank you very much" answers.

The base question is...do you ever risk yourself to save non-family/non-friend people, wherher there are firearms involved or not.

migoi

 

[mljdeckard]

It would depend on the situation.

I would definitely put the family first, and I wouldn't apologize for it. If I get them safe, it's not a good idea to abandon them and go back inside. (See First General Order.)

If I was with friends, and I saw family/kids, I MAY take a protective position over them, but as I said before, you don't know anyone or their situation in there. If you make assumptions about such things, that's how you get killed, sued, or both. If you go over to them and pull a gun, you are now attracting fire to them.

There is a VERY short list of people I will draw and kill for without finding out the whole story. I have a sister I wouldn't instantly draw for, because her past and boyfriends make it just as likely that SHE was the perpetrator.

Honestly, pretty much the only situation that comes to mind in which I would pull and run back into the furball would be something like "The teeth of the Tiger", by Tom Clancy, where death is imminent, and it's a question of how many they kill before someone stops them. It would have to be bad enough that I KNOW that the situation will be deadly if I don't intervene.

 

[bruss01]

Why wouldn't taking to your heels also be the best answer when homie points his .44mag at a bystander? Seems to me whatever actions said bystander took to induce large caliber expressions from the dude with the gun would also be viewed as Darwinism in action.

Miogi -

I can't pretend to speak for others, or what may be universally considered "right" in a given circumstance, but I can comment on how I would feel and the decisions I would make in a given circumstance.

Your question, "Why wouldn't taking to your heels also be the best answer when homie points his .44mag at a bystander?" I will tell you my response - because there is a difference to me (at least to my conscience) between an imiment threat and the possibility of a threat. A man yelling "I'm goin' for my gauge!" and a man actually producing a firearm and aiming it at someone, are two very different things in my mind. It may not be the best, wisest thing to do, but I would have to stand and draw down on someone in that (2nd) position. A, I know the law would be on my side (God I hope and pray so) and B, I would have a hard time living with myself if I didn't. I know my wife and son would understand that kind of thing, even if I didn't prevail and paid the price. That's very different in my mind from saying to someone "We gotta go, NOW! Follow me, I'll get you out of here..." and them saying back "nah... he's done this kinda thing before... he's just all talk..." sure, fine, whatever lady. You had a chance at getting out and you turned it down. You pay's your money, you takes your chances.

I'm also interested in your answers to the other questions in my posts.... where would you stand (or not) on the toddler on the freeway situation. This by the way was in the news recently. The toddler was discovered to have come from a "filthly" apartment not far from the freeway where the LEO's discovered mom asleep and a sibling eating spaghetti off the floor. Seems to me standing on the curb and watching the toddler get squashed would also be darwinism in action.

Oh kayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy. Not something you run into every day but.... child in iminent danger. Assuming you are on foot, and near enough to potentially reach the child, SHOULD YOU? I think most people would have to have considered this beforehand, or be a professional hero, in order to think thru the situation and react in any kind of meaningful timeframe. Personally I think if you look up from your mocha latte and see a child on the freeway, the half second it takes your jaw to hit the table in front of you is going to be all it takes for a truck to permanently settle the issue. Personally, if I were near enough and had presence of mind, I would take off my overshirt, jacket or whatever and try to wade into traffic, waving it over my head so traffic can see me, and grab the child. I seriously doubt it would work, but I'd have to try or live with it afterwards, not a pleasant thought. If I ended up in the hospital I'd be thinking what a stupid fool I was, and my wife would probably be thinking the same thing, although in both cases it would be alloyed with thoughts of "but it was a noble cause, anyway". Still, I can't help but think how many people have rained ruin down on their lives pursuing something that seemed a "noble cause" at the time. Imagine yourself like Chris Reeves, paralyzed from the neck down. Now imagine your wife and child struggling to pay your medical expenses. Now imagine not even being able to put the 9mm in your mouth to end the nightmare. Not a pretty picture. Not an easy decision. Yet these are sometimes decisions that people have to make in that half second before their jaw hits the table. I can't really criticize anyone for choosing YES or NO.

Anyway, I hope that answers your question. To me there is a profound difference between a "developing situation" that can be avoided and an iminent danger such as child in the freeway or gun pointed in a stranger's face. If a situation can be avoided, but isn't that is the fault of those who chose unwisely. If a situation is HERE NOW, it must be dealt with or one must live with the moral baggage thereafter.

 

[kungfuhippie]

migoi,
no the cousin went to jail under similar circumstances, her 2 y.o. son took the pitbull down to dunkin donuts at 2am to get food, he was hungary and mom was to wasted to care She's out of jail now and doing alot better, my aunt (grandma) has custody and things are going good, if she can stay clean and keep a job.

The reason I chose the examples is because the child would be in eminant danger and most THR folks I imagine would stop and help. THe woman on the ledge is only indangering herself (for what ever reason) If you try and talk her down and she jumps it's not your fault. If you go stand on the lower half of a freeway overpass and try to catch her if she jumps you are putting yourself in danger because of her choices, a car could hit you, if she lands ontop of you from a distance you may end up like Chris Reeves. All because she made a choice and you tried to play superman. Not many would look away and do nothing. The fact is that most will be helpful, in the waffle house saying your leaving and incouraging others to do the same is a great choice, you've being helpful but if the waitress sticks around (her choice) you did your part and your wife and kids should not have to suffer cause dad ended up in the hospital, jail, or cemetary (all a possibility).

I for one don't believe in rewarding stupiedity, if the waitress stays it's her choice and she'll live (or die) with the consequences. Having a ccw is not so you can play cop/superman/spy//private investigator/bounty hunter/etc. It's to protect yourself and others. When people make dumb choices that may put you life at risk, sticking around to play superman is not heroic, it puts you on the same stupied boat as the unarmed person.

So, I as much as I understand what you want to know, the waffle house scenario is not a great way to see where the line is crossed. THe examples you (or others) gave about the little girls being stabbed, the kid on the freeway, etc. are great examples because they are people in eminant danger due to other's choices (the kid's mom is to blame not the kid) and the father with the knife is at fault too.

 

[CornCod]

I would finish my meal and not draw attention to myself by running around and hiding behind counters. 9 times out of ten, these blowhards are just making a threat they won't carry out.

The older I get, the less sympathy I have for so-called battered women. Most of these women KNOW these mopes they take up with are brutal louts, but associate with them anyway for whatever thrill they get out of it. Someone expects me to put my life on the line for someone who gets her kicks from hanging out with thugs? Sorry, last time I checked I wasn't Jesus.

 

[kungfuhippie]

Sorry, last time I checked I wasn't Jesus.

best quote all day!

 

[buck00]

stating that he is going to get his GAUGE in his car to set things straight.

I applaud the "be prepared" mentality of this thread, however, many of you are failing to realize this is a common inner city threat to save face. "50 cent" can't just comply with the waitress's orders, he has to make a threat to scare her as he leaves. He has to "keep his rep."


Years ago when I still drank and hung out in the wrong places, a big fight broke out at a house party when a group of uninvited thugs crashed the party. They took the worst of the beating, and as they scampered off, sure enough, the ring leader yelled out "I'ma go get my AK, come back and shoot all yall!" Despite his promise/warning, they failed to return.

Honestly, if the guy is really going to go fetch a gun, most likely he won't inform you.

 

[Shaughn Leayme]

buck00,

Yes, most likely this is just talk and saving face.

I have a question...Do you buy lottery tickets? hoping that this time may be the time and the train comes in to the station and you can pay some bills or buy that "TOY" that you have been drooling over and can't really justify spending the cash on.

I look at a threat such as the aforementioned one in the same light, 99 times out of a hundred it's all bluster, but that 1 time may be today .

Pack mentality or Mob mentality, if you will , can feed on itself and manifest an action, from what had originally started out as nothing more than loose lips, the homies start telling him, that he can't let "them" get away with it, and actually egg him on to the point, where he believes that the only way to save face and his standing amongst his peers, is to go back with his gauge and do it, it doesn't always happen, but hey, stupid is as stupid does.

Maybe I'm paranoid, but a few times in my life, looking at the world at large with a jaundiced eye, gave me the time to realize that something was developing and take the appropriate action, to bring it to a satisfactory conclusion.

 

[MrMorden]

Twitchy

I'm thinking there are a lot of loose cannons in here...

You're going to draw and get all tactical because some punk talked smack and left? How about watching where he goes? Does he actually go to his car to get his "gauge" or does he just wander off down the street with his posse?

I'm not about to start taking tactical advice from a WH waitress, so I'd be doing my own thing. As I said, LOOK at what's happening. Take note of good cover, the exits, etc. If the punk starts coming back toward the building, then you *might* have a problem. If not, I'm enjoying my coffee.

 

[smince]

First mistake--being at a Waffle House late at night. But, I digress.

+1.

Last time I ate at a WH, there was a BIG "No CCW Allowed" sign on the wall above the counter. After I left, I wrote the company a letter and never heard anything from them. I haven't been back, but a friend said it had been taken down.